Jazz @ Suns 3-13-19

[Mainstreet]

Yuck. We would never see those quotes from amare.

No we wouldn't. It was not even in his vocabulary.

 

[Mainstreet]

There are so many relevant things to criticize other than Booker and yet here we are.

 

[95pro]

Yes he did but are you really disappointed because he didn't have a perfect game? Even in practice, players miss wide open shots. All told, Devin had a pretty good game. It would be nice if he would have even better games but I'm thrilled to see him finally start to look healthy and in game shape.

They also go on streaks in practice where they make 10-20something in a row too. With that said, players need to be knocking down wide open shots. I’m not hating on Booker, it’s iust something that should almost be automatic for a scorer like booker. Seems like he makes the tough ones and misses the wide open shots more than often.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yuck. We would never see those quotes from amare.

I think he is analytic, self reflective and open with his thoughts at a level that you rarely see in a young athlete. I don't mind it. It's him knowing he has a long way to go. I'd much rather that than Amare's routine of proclaiming himself a future DPOY and then taking about 2 steps back defensively each year.

 

[Phrazbit]

9 of 20 is a solid shooting game. It's not amazing by any means, but it is definitely not something to call out as inefficient.

Yeah... 27 points on 20 shots... that's actually above his rate on the season and would rate him as one of the most efficient shooters in the league.

 

[Hoop Head]

Booker was 9 for 20

Kyrie put up 31 against the Kings while shooting 11-28, which included 1-9 from 3.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/sacramento-kings-boston-celtics-2019031402/

Paul George shot 10-23 while scoring 36 in a game where the Thunder came up short 106-108 against the Pacers.

All the Pacers starters scored in double figures but only Collison shot better than 50% from the field, going 6-11 in that OKC game.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder-indiana-pacers-2019031411/

Kawhi led the Raptors with 25 while shooting 8-20 from the field in a 111-98 win over the Lakers. Lebron did score 29 in that loss while shooting 12-23 from the field.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers-toronto-raptors-2019031428/

It's not unusual for a star guard, or wing, to shoot under 50% from the field in an average game, against Utah Booker shot 45%. If he played better that might have meant a Suns win but he can't do it alone. As others have pointed out, he didn't play poorly.

I'm not sure what sort of bar you set for him but it seems like it might be too high. It would be great if he played better but asking for 50% shooting or better every night is not typical for a guard like Booker.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think he is analytic, self reflective and open with his thoughts at a level that you rarely see in a young athlete. I don't mind it. It's him knowing he has a long way to go. I'd much rather that than Amare's routine of proclaiming himself a future DPOY and then taking about 2 steps back defensively each year.

I’ll be honest, I don’t care why he says the comments. While it’s nice to know he’s analytical and introspective, I think we would agree that said analysis and introspection hasn’t amounted to much. As great as he’s been as a rookie (and he’s been terrific overall) I think we can all likely agree that he’s largely the same player today as he was when he first set foot on the floor against the mavs. At least his numbers haven’t significantly moved. So it makes that analysis and introspection virtually meaningless. Remember when he got smashed by embiid early in the season and said he was going to use all he learned? He hasn’t. He doesn’t use the “tricks” he learned. He didn’t become physical like embiid. So while the learning is great. If he isn’t translating that to action it’s meaningless. I head up a national team of financial advisors. They are in constant training. But if they can’t apply the training they become dinosaurs and the training is meaningless.

But even more important is what’s behind the comments. The substance. Amare wouldn’t make those comments not because he wasn’t introspective (which full well might’ve been the case) but because the substance of those comments weren’t a part of his DNA. He wasn’t intimidated by anyone. No opposing player or actions in his part made him go into a funk. His drive wouldn’t allow it. But ayton’s does. And it can’t be an argument about age because amare was straight outta high school and so much more raw than Ayton.

And mind you, I’m not saying amare was better than Ayton as a rookie. Just that he had a more indomitable spirit than does Ayton. And that was what was going to make amare an unstoppable force offensively if he hadn’t gotten injured. And it’s what will hold Ayton back from becoming a dominant force if he can’t tap into something similar.

 

[AzStevenCal]

As great as he’s been as a rookie (and he’s been terrific overall) I think we can all likely agree that he’s largely the same player today as he was when he first set foot on the floor against the mavs. At least his numbers haven’t significantly moved.

I don't agree. I do agree his numbers haven't changed much but I never had a problem with his numbers. It was what little he did when he wasn't adding to his numbers. I was down on him for awhile until he turned his intensity up several notches. The Ayton we've seen the past 3 or 4 weeks prior to the Utah game is the guy I had hoped we drafted. Hopefully that Utah game was just a really bad night.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't agree. I do agree his numbers haven't changed much but I never had a problem with his numbers. I was down on him for awhile until he turned his intensity up several notches. The Ayton we've seen the past 3 or 4 weeks prior to the Utah game is the guy I had hoped we drafted. Hopefully that Utah game was just a really bad night.

I’m sorry I’ll have to argue this. If his intensity has genuinely increased there would have to be an attendant rise in numbers. He’s get to the FT line more. He’d get more blocks, more steals. His scoring and rebounding numbers would increase. If none of that’s happening, or only in tiny increments, then what you’re seeing is false hustle because it’s nit having a definable impact.

This summer is going to be a huge deal for Ayton. I expect (maybe hope more than expect) a pretty good step forward next season from Ayton. If we don’t get it, I wonder what we’re staring at . . .

 

[AzStevenCal]

I’m sorry I’ll have to argue this. If his intensity has genuinely increased there would have to be an attendant rise in numbers. He’s get to the FT line more. He’d get more blocks, more steals. His scoring and rebounding numbers would increase. If none of that’s happening, or only in tiny increments, then what you’re seeing is false hustle because it’s nit having a definable impact.

This summer is going to be a huge deal for Ayton. I expect (maybe hope more than expect) a pretty good step forward next season from Ayton. If we don’t get it, I wonder what we’re staring at . . .

Well, obviously this is just from my perception but I soured on him because of how little he was doing outside of the numbers. If he wasn't scoring or rebounding or blocking shots, he was just out there and invisible and IMO that changed a few weeks ago. He's no longer Randy Moss when his number isn't being called and other players are benefitting because of it.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't agree. I do agree his numbers haven't changed much but I never had a problem with his numbers. It was what little he did when he wasn't adding to his numbers. I was down on him for awhile until he turned his intensity up several notches. The Ayton we've seen the past 3 or 4 weeks prior to the Utah game is the guy I had hoped we drafted. Hopefully that Utah game was just a really bad night.

I was just going to say this. Although I'm focused more on the defense, he's definitely improved since game 1 of his NBA career.

 

[SirStefan32]

I've been very defensive of Ayton, and I continue to be. He is a youngster who has been bigger and stronger than eanyone he's played against in HS and NCAA. He is learning, he is doing great for a young kid. That said, there is one thing that bothers me. He hasn't had one game where he just came in, dunked of everyone who's been guarding him, dropped 35 points while grabbing 20 rebounds and dominated defensively. I would really like to see just one game where he goes crazy and looks like Shaq/ Hakeem.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was just going to say this. Although I'm focused more on the defense, he's definitely improved since game 1 of his NBA career.

His defense has improved but the big thing for me is that he's forcing defenses to worry about him even when he doesn't expect to get the ball which is improving our overall offense. He's not just standing around like he was in January when he wasn't a part of the action.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Guys if he’s having an impact that don’t show in his numbers then they have to be showing elsewhere. If his defense is much improved but we aren’t seeing more blocks and steals than has our overall defensive team stats improved dramatically (I’m legitimately asking, I don’t know)? Fg% against down significantly? Turnovers created up significantly? Defensive rebound percentage up? If there’s little-to-no change in his numbers or team numbers then is anything really happening? I’m hoping there’s some evidences of his increased intensity in something measurable more than just “I see him moving more.”

Mind you, I’m not challenging you guys. And I don’t expect you to research it, because I know I certainly don’t want to spend the time, just food for thought.

 

[Chaplin]

Guys if he’s having an impact that don’t show in his numbers then they have to be showing elsewhere. If his defense is much improved but we aren’t seeing more blocks and steals than has our overall defensive team stats improved dramatically (I’m legitimately asking, I don’t know)? Fg% against down significantly? Turnovers created up significantly? Defensive rebound percentage up? If there’s little-to-no change in his numbers or team numbers then is anything really happening? I’m hoping there’s some evidences of his increased intensity in something measurable more than just “I see him moving more.”

Mind you, I’m not challenging you guys. And I don’t expect you to research it, because I know I certainly don’t want to spend the time, just food for thought.

So you are saying you DON'T see a difference in his defense since the beginning of the season?

It doesn't really matter, I don't have the time or inclination to go on about this. He's either good or he isn't. If you think the Utah game is a good representation of the player he is, than that's your opinion, and definitely not one I share. More power to you.

 

[BC867]

I wouldn't judge any of Booker's offensive game on anything he's done since having to take over the Point.

It has spread him thin, caused him to be constantly double-teamed, has had no one skilled to feed him and
the record shows that he has been out or played injured a lot more than when he was just Shooting Guard.

If they let him be at Shooting Guard (and a good distributing one at that) and with his recent improvement
on defense he can truly lead this team and become an All Star.

 

[95pro]

Guys if he’s having an impact that don’t show in his numbers then they have to be showing elsewhere. If his defense is much improved but we aren’t seeing more blocks and steals than has our overall defensive team stats improved dramatically (I’m legitimately asking, I don’t know)? Fg% against down significantly? Turnovers created up significantly? Defensive rebound percentage up? If there’s little-to-no change in his numbers or team numbers then is anything really happening? I’m hoping there’s some evidences of his increased intensity in something measurable more than just “I see him moving more.”

Mind you, I’m not challenging you guys. And I don’t expect you to research it, because I know I certainly don’t want to spend the time, just food for thought.

plus/minus?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you are saying you DON'T see a difference in his defense since the beginning of the season?

It doesn't really matter, I don't have the time or inclination to go on about this. He's either good or he isn't. If you think the Utah game is a good representation of the player he is, than that's your opinion, and definitely not one I share. More power to you.

I don’t think it’s a “good representation of the player he is” - I never said anything approaching that. Not even close. But it’s part of who he is as a player. It’s part of his resume. As is the attitude he adopted during the game as evidenced by his post-game comments. Ignore that if you want, but doesn’t change it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

plus/minus?

That’s as good a place as any I suppose. Is it better, the worse or same? Is that something we can even find?

 

[Suns_fan69]

Here's what I could find: https://stats.nba.com/player/1629028/advanced/?CF=GP*E*&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season

Some stats better, some stats worse. I don't see any compelling argument that he's gotten better when looking purely at these stats.

EDIT: Oh, regular +/- is in the 'Traditional' stats. It does look significantly better in March: https://stats.nba.com/player/1629028/traditional/

My guess is though the entire team's +/- is better in March.

 

[SirStefan32]

Eye test tells me he is better defensively. Some of the time he doesn't look lost on rotations, and he contests a few more shots than he used to. His one on one defense is good, but it was good early on too. I really don't know how to measure team defense, rotations, and things like that, but he is improving based on my eye test. Don't get me wrong, he is still not a good team defender, but he appears to be less lost.

 

[95pro]

The perimeter defense was awful before Oubre and Johnson. Oubre has length and athleticism, Johnson has quick foot speed and closes out well. Now the perimeter defense is much improved, I think Ayton didn't know what hole to fill since there were so many before the perimeter defense improved. We saw the defense improve when Oubre first arrived, then they regressed a little, and now we see the same effect upon Johnson's arrival.