JJaded over Suns? You have reason

[azdad1978]

Dan Bickley
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 11, 2005 12:00 AM

The Suns are charged with false advertising. The Hawks are guilty of impersonating the Clippers. The whole sordid saga is screaming for some Stern intervention, although the content is best suited for Howard, not David.

Alas, no matter how this mess turns out, the genie will not go back in the bottle. The biggest losers are you and I and all the callous hearts that melted during the magical run of 2004-05. Once an open highway of hope, the Suns are just another emotional dead-end.

Fairy tales? Sorry, the tooth fairy is holding out for more money, and after feuding with his reindeer, Santa Claus is moving to the South Pole. And if you still believe your team has a bright future, check your sunglasses. There is no such thing.



Cardinals fans may think otherwise, but only after the organization pacified Anquan Boldin, who wanted a new contract after one year on the job. Patriots fans and Spurs fans may argue to the contrary, but only because Tom Brady and Manu Ginobili weren't consumed with maximum dollars. They are the rare exceptions.

Like the Suns, the Eagles were on the cusp of a championship. Suddenly, Terrell Owens needed even more money or he would wither and die from a lack of respect. Owens was booted from practice Wednesday after refusing to participate in a mandatory autograph session.

It's enough to make everyone turn to NASCAR.

Here in Phoenix, an exciting, endearing basketball team has imploded before our eyes. If the Suns would've simply done what they promised - match any offer sheet for Johnson and keep the core of the team together - the additions of Kurt Thomas and Raja Bell would've placed them over the top. They would've played the Miami Heat for a championship next season.

Instead, Robert Sarver got jittery. The Suns made low-ball offers to Johnson while simultaneously suppressing his market value (telling other teams the Suns would match any offer). After contentious negotiations last summer, the Suns should've ignored any rumblings of his discontent. Instead, Sarver used the bitterness he helped create within Johnson as the reason not to give Johnson $70 million.

As this sorry chapter lingers, the Suns have scored an important victory. Johnson lost half of the real world by fitting into the role of greedy athlete willing to move to last place for a few dollars more. He lost many more through attrition, as Suns fans are simply too exhausted to care any longer.

Bottom line: Sarver's fiscal nature overwhelmed his championship desire. He won't turn the balance sheet upside down for a ring. Jerry Colangelo did, even though it cost him his job with the Diamondbacks, and for that we're forever grateful.

It must be said that Sarver is doing much better with Amaré Stoudemire. He invited the big fella to ring the bell at the New York Stock Exchange when Sarver's company went public. Sarver also invited Stoudemire to invest money in the company, and in the first month, the stock soared 31 percent. FYI, Sarver's personal value went up about $15 million.

"Me and Robert are just about best of friends," Stoudemire told Suns.com.

Stoudemire's happiness is the only good news. Even if some karmic twist puts Johnson back on the Suns, he will be under great scrutiny and the mood will be soured by constant trade rumors.

So whether you've chosen the hip boots or the rose-colored glasses throughout this ordeal, Pandora is out of her box. The vibe is gone, and the team that felt like footsteps in fresh snow is but a one-hit wonder. These days, it's about all a sports fan can hope for.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/0811bickley0811.html

 

[HooverDam]

Huh? They low balled him? When an owner calls up the player and says "ok, we know what your salary is, would you like us to match?" and has made repeated attempts to have meetings w/ said player, it doesnt seem like the owner did much wrong. Sure he shouldve signed him before last season, but if half of what Sarver has been saying is true, I dont think he is at fault.

 

[devilalum]

Huh? They low balled him? When an owner calls up the player and says "ok, we know what your salary is, would you like us to match?" and has made repeated attempts to have meetings w/ said player, it doesnt seem like the owner did much wrong. Sure he shouldve signed him before last season, but if half of what Sarver has been saying is true, I dont think he is at fault.

Instead, Sarver used the bitterness he helped create within Johnson as the reason not to give Johnson $70 million.

This is the only insightful line from the article.

In Sarver's radio interview he portrayed himself as the victim which is pretty rediculous when you think about it. Part of owning and managing a sports franchise is keeping your players happy. Sarver failed.

 

[Kolo]

This is the only insightful line from the article.

In Sarver's radio interview he portrayed himself as the victim which is pretty rediculous when you think about it. Part of owning and managing a sports franchise is keeping your players happy. Sarver failed.

I diagree. Like JJ said, it's business, and making an initial offer of 6/60 should in no way contribute to JJ's bitterness. If JJ is so fragile he gets his feelings hurt by such an "insult," he's simply immature, and it's entirely on him. I like and agree with Bickley far more than most on this board (especially those on the Cards board who think his skepticism borders on heresy), but I think Bickley's dead wrong on this one.

 

[Chaplin]

I diagree. Like JJ said, it's business, and making an initial offer of 6/60 should in no way contribute to JJ's bitterness. If JJ is so fragile he gets his feelings hurt by such an "insult," he's simply immature, and it's entirely on him. I like and agree with Bickley far more than most on this board (especially those on the Cards board who think his skepticism borders on heresy), but I think Bickley's dead wrong on this one.

I agree, he is definitely a short-sighted hack. The guy has no idea what is going on. He's writing as if he is a fan of another team, not a beat writer for the local newspaper.

 

[devilalum]

I diagree. Like JJ said, it's business, and making an initial offer of 6/60 should in no way contribute to JJ's bitterness. If JJ is so fragile he gets his feelings hurt by such an "insult," he's simply immature, and it's entirely on him.

AT LEAST half of the players in the NBA are spoiled and immature. Management has to deal with premadonna behavior everyday. You're speaking from a real world perspective. The NBA is not real life. If you want to own a successful NBA franchise you have to know how to deal with these issues.

If JC was in charge this never would have happened.

 

[Chaplin]

AT LEAST half of the players in the NBA are spoiled and immature. Management has to deal with premadonna behavior everyday. You're speaking from a real world perspective. The NBA is not real life. If you want to own a successful NBA franchise you have to know how to deal with these issues.

If JC was in charge this never would have happened.

You don't offer the max up front right away. That's bad business no matter what--especially when referring to a RESTRICTED free agent.

 

[Joe Mama]

I diagree. Like JJ said, it's business, and making an initial offer of 6/60 should in no way contribute to JJ's bitterness. If JJ is so fragile he gets his feelings hurt by such an "insult," he's simply immature, and it's entirely on him. I like and agree with Bickley far more than most on this board (especially those on the Cards board who think his skepticism borders on heresy), but I think Bickley's dead wrong on this one.

It depends on which timeline you believe. Was the 6 year/$60 million offer made before or after Michael Redd and Ray Allen got their deals? That is what Sarver said in his interview. If you believe that then I would agree that JJ had no reason to be upset. If not, I can understand Bickley's point of view. It's the same way I felt before that Sarver interview.

The reason I believed Sarver was that his timeline fit perfectly with everything we knew and heard. I also think it's a bit crazy to call someone cheap because they don't want to give Joe Johnson $70 million over 5 years. I don't agree with Hollinger that JJ is only worth half that, but I would say that 2/3 is about right.

Joe Mama

 

[coloradosun]

I diagree. Like JJ said, it's business, and making an initial offer of 6/60 should in no way contribute to JJ's bitterness. If JJ is so fragile he gets his feelings hurt by such an "insult," he's simply immature, and it's entirely on him. I like and agree with Bickley far more than most on this board (especially those on the Cards board who think his skepticism borders on heresy), but I think Bickley's dead wrong on this one.

If you go back to last summer, the offer was 50M and Sarver upped the ante to 60M this summer, like he said in his interview he knew he was going to pay JJ more than what he offered last summer, and was willing to do it. It sounds like he was even willing to go to 75M, so if JJ is hurt so be it, Sarver did what he said he was going to do, offer more money.

There was never a low ball offer, he even justified his offers comparing them to Nash and Ginobli, two guys that are the same caliber players.

 

[devilalum]

You don't offer the max up front right away. That's bad business no matter what--especially when referring to a RESTRICTED free agent.

I agree you don't offer the max right away.

I'm speaking to the overall way in which JJ was handled starting last summer.
Sarver admittedly screwed up by not signing him for 6 at 50 then compounded his mistake this summer by offering JJ less than comparable 2's were getting from other teams.

This is all common knowledge. I'd like to know what happened behind closed doors to create so much ill will? It would have been great if JJ would have come on the radio just after Sarver's interview and told his side of the story.

The only good thing I see coming from all this may be that Amare will be happier without JJ. Amare choses his words carefully when asked about his teammates but I don't think he cares much for JJ. If I am correct its probably better that the Suns get rid of JJ sooner than later.

 

[Chaplin]

Last year, I'd bet at least half this board, and perhaps a majority, were still unsure if JJ was worth the 50 million. We know better now, but hindsight is 20/20, for us AND Sarver. And last year, the market for SGs was not what it is this year.

Unfortunately, Ray Allen and ESPECIALLY Michael Redd were overpaid astronomically. My opinion is that JJ knew we were going to match, we weren't going to offer the max right away and that we were open to him looking around at other teams. This is either his agent putting stupid ideas in his head, JJ just being not very smart, or posturing. Probably a bit of all 3, IMO.

All we can do is take a deep breath and hope this farce ends sooner rather than later.

 

[coloradosun]

I'm speaking to the overall way in which JJ was handled starting last summer.
Sarver admittedly screwed up by not signing him for 6 at 50 then compounded his mistake this summer by offering JJ less than comparable 2's were getting from other teams.

I agree the situation was mishandled last summer.

Let me ask you this, do you think if Q had not have been signed last summer would a deal with JJ have been hammered out?

I think it would have, Bryan convinced Sarver that it may be a good idea to have a back up plan in case JJ was offered a max. It was amazing how quickly we moved Q, Bryan knew it had created duplication.

 

[coloradosun]

Last year, I'd bet at least half this board, and perhaps a majority, were still unsure if JJ was worth the 50 million. We know better now, but hindsight is 20/20, for us AND Sarver. And last year, the market for SGs was not what it is this year.

Unfortunately, Ray Allen and ESPECIALLY Michael Redd were overpaid astronomically. My opinion is that JJ knew we were going to match, we weren't going to offer the max right away and that we were open to him looking around at other teams.

My question is where was the foresight, if everybody and his brother knew that Larry Hughes, Ray Allen and Michael Redd were going to be FA this summer, why not take care of your SG ASAP. Market forces are not NBA market forces, just because there were a lot on the market does not necessarily mean the price goes down.

The Suns were willing to pay for basicly two shooting guards last season because they got one on the cheap, Q. Why not have one but pay him a little more, the duplication did not make any sense.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I agree, he is definitely a short-sighted hack. The guy has no idea what is going on. He's writing as if he is a fan of another team, not a beat writer for the local newspaper.

Ok chap you and i have been disagreeing way to much lately but i have to take exception with you again...I have been all over this entire site and for the life of me i cant understand the hating on the local reporters that goes on around here. Between Bickley, Jurecki, Gambo and Ash i think they do a pretty outstanding job. I dont always agree with them but thats not really the point. Bias reporting is for team announcers not newspaper writers. i almost always agree with Bickley (like you devil) and when i dont, i dont call him out like he some kind of Benedict Arnold. I want them to call it like it is. Now if a reporter has a vendetta against the team (like many say about Bob Young and the suns and Jurecki and Denny green, and worst of all that Rick reilly hack job on the cardinals last weeK) then i cant stand that. Be complimentary when they are good and call them out if you think they screw up. I like diametric points of views so i can make the most educated decision.

You shouldnt just blindly follow the Suns and assume managment always is playing it straight. Sometimes they will make monetary decisions or bad decisions...it happens, it is a business. Bickley is right. While i side with Sarver mostly, its naive to think he didnt create some of this discontent with Joe. We can argue all we want that Joe shouldnt feel so disrespected and should suck it up, but Sarvers actions had a part in this. Its JJ's decsion ultimatly so he must shoulder the majority of the blame, but i dont see players trying to leave the love nest Mark Cuban has set up in Dallas (that is unless HE lowballs a player: see Nash, Steve) Players have egos and they will go where the money AND respect will follow. JJ feels hes out grown Phx and part of that culture was established by Sarver.

Last point: Im as die hard a Cards fan as there is (and suns and dbacks for that matter) but i think it is so asinine that some of these cards posters act like the Phx. media is out to get the team. HELLO.....they have been one of the most pathetic franchises in sports the last ten years and all the bashing they get was much deserved. In fact up until last season, where Denny and Mike Bidwill markedly changed the atmosphere, there shouldnt have been one legitimate media person praising the team. Blind optimism is for the fans. Let the media do the reporting and take what you agree with and toss away what you dont....

 

[Chaplin]

Personally, I understand your opinion, although I don't understand how you can honestly talk about Gambo like he's this great reporter.

Let's also get another thing straight--you are definitely much more impressed with JJ than I am. I love him and love what he brings to the Suns, but losing him doesn't make us a bad team at all--which is what Bickley is spewing about. In fact, he doesn't even take into consideration what consequences exist if we do sign Joe Johnson to that huge contract.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am so tired of listening and reading Bickley. He always finds the most negative story in sports and then complains about it like he is some sort of moral icon chosen to pass judgement on all the morons and moral deviants in sports.

 

[PrimeTime]

Bickley has been all over Sarver this summer. Blast, after blast, after blast. Listening to this guy, you would think that Sarver is one of the worst owners in the league. No attempt whatsoever is made to see things from Sarver's perspective. Its just Sarver screwed up this, Sarver broke up that, Sarver is only about the money, etc. Not to mention how he feels the Suns are ruined from this point on.

Bickley is a closed-minded moron. The ultimate doom and gloom guy, whom seems content to scare the masses with his propaganda into turning on Sarver. JJ gets a free pass with this guy. Just ask him, JJ can do no wrong. And if getting JJ at 6/90 million is what it would take to keep him on the team, then by-god Sarver should do it. Who needs roleplayers? Amare's extention.. it could be trimmed. Marion, kurt thomas.. goodbye, we've got JJ. Why don't JJ just go into Sarver's bank account and leave however much he thinks Sarver should have?

Take a lesson folks.. this is why people like Bickley will drive the company car, and people like Sarver will own the company. Bickley's over-the-top desire to have JJ at whatever-cost-is-neccessary is the sure path to bankruptcy for any owner of any team in any sport. But Bickley could care less, because after all, its not like its HIS money. Because if it were, then he would spend it 'wisely'. But what is wisdom to Bickley anyways? Afterall, overpaying, no matter what it does to the team, is the road to winning championships.

Oh by the way Bickley, how bout those Yankees?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Last year, I'd bet at least half this board, and perhaps a majority, were still unsure if JJ was worth the 50 million. We know better now, but hindsight is 20/20, for us AND Sarver. And last year, the market for SGs was not what it is this year.

Proof of this

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40253

 

[Mainstreet]

--you are definitely much more impressed with JJ than I am. I love him and love what he brings to the Suns, but losing him doesn't make us a bad team at all--which is what Bickley is spewing about. In fact, he doesn't even take into consideration what consequences exist if we do sign Joe Johnson to that huge contract.

Chaplin, your remarks are right on target. There are very few good sports writers in the valley. I still remember an article from Boivin (sp) of The Arizona Republic a few years back singing the praises of Jason Kidd after he was moved from Phoenix. I won't even get into Gambo.

Bickley doesn't even look at the other side of the coin... what the consequences would be if Phoenix kept JJ for the money he was wanting and also considering JJ did not want to play here in Phoenix. This became painfully clear with the lack of initial communication he had with Phoenix management (and fans) during the negotiations. Also there was the matter of the bloated front end contract he wanted. A player does not do this to a team if he wanted to re-sign with the Suns.

Bickley spewing out this negativity sickens me.

Common sense indicates that Phoenix would not have been able to keep JJ and Marion together for more than one more year at the most which I fully believe Sarver was willing to do until JJ gave the Suns the initial silent treatment... and then the I don't want to play in Phoenix line.

Knowing the Suns could not keep JJ and Marion together for more than another year at most, I'm glad the Suns kept Shawn considering JJ wanted out of Phoenix.

I'm just glad the Suns are hopefully getting compensation for JJ instead of letting him walk for nothing. Quite frankly (and I realize I'm probably one of the few), I think the Suns may be getting the better end of the deal if they play their cards right.

My take from the ESPN articles I have read, that even some writers there think the Suns are getting a good deal for JJ. Certainly Belkin thought so.

Phoenix did indeed make the mistake of not extending JJ's contract last year (which I wanted) but I will not berate an owner who spent so much money buying the Suns and spending money signing Nash and Q. Hindsight is always 20/20.

By the way, I wish JJ the best if he goes to Atlanta in a sign and trade. However, I will always have mixed feelings because he did not communicate more to the fans as to what he wanted. Now if Hunter leaves Phoenix, he has made it perfectly clear why he would do so. I would have much more positive thoughts about him, if he has to return to Phoenix in a different uniform.

Anyway these are only my thoughts... others are welcome to their perspective as well. I just think this Bickley article was very unfair to the Suns' ownership.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm satisfied with my remarks from last year.


I'm very high on Q, but I think JJ may turn out to be the better player for one reason. He has more versatility. He can play the 1, 2, and 3 positions. I know Q can also probably play some small forward as well as SG but JJ has more height thus he will probably be better defensively if he has to play some SF. Also JJ's ability to play the point cannot be minimized in case of injury.

Thus, my position is that JJ should be payed at least marginally better than Q. Also I don't think JJ has fully reached his potential and I don't seem him regressing.

 

[Joe Mama]

IMO this is all about what happened this summer. If JJ is still hung up on last summer he can blow. Whether or not you believe that JJ was worth that $50 million last summer you have to admit that it was far from a sure thing. If there wasn't a decent amount of doubt that he was worth it in your mind I have to question your sanity.

Like I said earlier, this summer it comes down to one that 6-year/$60 million offer was made. If you believe Sarver they made that offer before Michael Redd and Ray Allen got there ridiculous deals. I believe they said they used Manu's contract plus some money as a starting point. That makes sense. Everything in his interview seems to lineup perfectly with what we had been hearing.

Personally, I understand your opinion, although I don't understand how you can honestly talk about Gambo like he's this great reporter.

Let's also get another thing straight--you are definitely much more impressed with JJ than I am. I love him and love what he brings to the Suns, but losing him doesn't make us a bad team at all--which is what Bickley is spewing about. In fact, he doesn't even take into consideration what consequences exist if we do sign Joe Johnson to that huge contract.

Amen. This article makes it sound like there's no way the Phoenix Suns can contend without JJ. Screw that. Yes, they are a better team with JJ. They were very good without him last year though, and they had no bench. They already have a better bench now, and I'm sure they'll add more, especially if JJ does not return.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Since I have been a long time JJ fan, I'm disappointed with the way things worked out. However, I get tired of all the "woulda, coulda, shoulda". The decision last summer was short sighted but hardly stupid considering JJ's inconsistency. In any case, JJ's jealousy of Amare is not primarily Sarver's fault.

I guess it is time to simply move on.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

sorry guys...im not jumping ship or anything...i would just rather be playing with a fully loaded gun and unless we win it all this year,i will look back and wonder if JJ was the difference...because i think with him, its Heat and Suns in the Finals...no regular season necessary

 

[Billythekid]

We look straight at what we're going to be doing in the playoffs, but what about the regular season? You need a decent roster to get through it with a good record. Losing Q, JJ, and Hunter which was practically half our squad from last year is a HUGE hit and many around here seem to look over this.

KT and Raja are good players but hardly fit into the system we preached last season that was so successful. Up and down, 3 point shooting basketball.

This teams personality has been torn apart no matter how you look at it and it's going to be hard to replicate a season like last years.

I for one am pissed off and find it hard to watch last seasons game tapes knowing we aren't going to be that team.

 

[fordronken]

This teams personality has been torn apart no matter how you look at it and it's going to be hard to replicate a season like last years.

As the Lakers, Spurs and Pistons have proved over the past 7 years, regular season only means so much. Getting a top three seed is really enough. I picture us finishing second and at at the worst third(in terms of seeding--we'll win the Pacific).

Building a playoff roster is how you win championships. Nash and Amare are the 1-2 punch. Marion cleans up the messes and you get a bunch of other guys who are gonna hit clutch shots, be where they're supposed to be, make important plays, redound and play defense. I don't care if we finish with 52 wins as long as we've got a roster capable of going into the paint and doing some serious damage on both ends of the floor.