Joe Johnson is GREAT

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by SunsTzu
All I said was I thought JJ was playing well before the meeting and he was. Only other player that was doing well post Marbury pre meeting was Barbosa. You tried to discredit me by showing his yearly stats, I defended my postion by going through game by game stats.

I thought JJ was one of the few guys playing well before the meeting.

Was the entire season before the meeting or did I miss that?

Ahhh...I see...you are now amending your statement to post Marbury-pre meeting. Articulation is your friend.

 

[SunsTzu]

Since the trade and before the meeting JJ was playing well.

I added this statement before listing the stats to try and make what i intially meant more clear.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Okay that was the most idiotic round about debate over nothing (semantics).

Fun though

Peace SunTzu

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Okay that was the most idiotic round about debate over nothing (semantics).

Fun though

Peace SunTzu

Yep! My lack of sleep probably contributed to the problem .

 

[elindholm]

Now, I am perfectly willing to eat crow, but it'll be a couple weeks before I'm confident in JJ's play.

It will be a lot longer than that for me. The Suns are just playing exhibition games now. It wouldn't surprise me all that much if Johnson looked this good through the end of the season. But next year, if the Suns shore up their roster and have an eye on the playoffs again, it may well be a completely different story.

Still, I'll happily share Chaplin's helping of crow if he really pans out. There's no question that he has the talent.

 

[frdbtr]

I sure hope this continues. JJ and Barbosa are turning out to be exactly what the DR. ordered when it comes to our back court. Marion and Amare are good for 20/10 pretty much every night so we needed some consistancy in the back court. Our guards are really shooting well (as far as percentages are concerned).

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
Now, I am perfectly willing to eat crow, but it'll be a couple weeks before I'm confident in JJ's play.

It will be a lot longer than that for me. The Suns are just playing exhibition games now. It wouldn't surprise me all that much if Johnson looked this good through the end of the season. But next year, if the Suns shore up their roster and have an eye on the playoffs again, it may well be a completely different story.

Still, I'll happily share Chaplin's helping of crow if he really pans out. There's no question that he has the talent.

With JJ is is more than just talent - he has skills to be a real first option player. But due to his lack of maturity, he was like the nursery rhyme about the girl with the curl:

"Once there was a girl with pretty little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead,
When she was good she was very very good,
And when she was bad she was horrid:

It's frustrating because he keeps showing periods when he "very very good". Mike D'Antoni and the rest of team need to accept the fact that JJ is way too sensitive and tends to get down on himslef when things are going bad. He needs lots of reassurance.

It is hard to rush maturity and attitude. Amare was younger when he joined the team, but he had a swagger from day #1. JJ needs to develop the same swagger - then look out!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
The entire Phoenix Suns team is moving around with and without the ball much better than they were two weeks ago. Much of that has to do with Marbury's departure. Some of it also has to do with Amare Stoudemire's return. Of course I believe much of the reason Stoudemire is playing his best basketball of the season is that Marbury is not playing here.

Joe Mama

I think coaching has more to do with it than anything.

But Marbury did have the ball in his hands alot. That is Stephs game, and he is good at it. It seems to be working well in NY.

 

[sunsfn]

When Marbury was here, JJ & Amare tended to keep the ball and not give it back because if they did, they did not see it again.

Now if they pass the ball they will probably get it back in a good situation to shoot.

Amare has to learn to give the ball up instead of going coast to coast and turn it over.
I have no doubt he will stop doing this in time.

Amare proves again just how important it is to have a presence in the middle.

for you naysayers on the board, JJ is going to have some more bad games, after all he is just in his third year and is young.

For many years NBA experts have been saying it takes 3 years to get draft picks to play good basketball in the NBA, and with the players becoming younger all the time, that time frame is going to be extended.

Also it takes big guys even longer than that. There are a few that can do it much sooner, but even those players have a lot to learn and need 3 years to develop. (Amare)

 

[slinslin]

New York seems to have more catch and shoot players who are happy to get the ball just to shoot it.

 

[Chaz]

Like someone mentioned before; This is the first time in a long time the Suns have not been dominated by a point guard.

This team is dominated by a shooting guard and a forward (or two) and posses some nice other pieces.

Greatness can only be achieved by a consistant and continued effort. Both Amare and Joe still have a lot to prove but it looks to be a fun ride.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
I think coaching has more to do with it than anything.

But Marbury did have the ball in his hands alot. That is Stephs game, and he is good at it. It seems to be working well in NY.

Basketball is more than just a team sport, it is a "team style sport". Just putting the 5 best guys on the floor is not necessarily the route to success - they need to compliment each other.

Steph gets his assists off the dribble penitration when opponents have to leave their guy to defend him. But the open looks he creates for his teammates are generally perimeter shots. This fits the relatively unathletic Knicks and did not fit the Suns.

 

[slinslin]

Also JJ and Amare are good friends off of the court I read and it seems to translate on the court.

I wouldn't be surprised if JJ shared Amare's opinions.

 

[George O'Brien]

Amare's performance since returning would suggest that maybe there was some merit to his complaints.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not trying to duplicate the first post in this thread, but the difference in JJ's game is amazing since the trade.

Before,after

Shooting percentage .391, .505
3 pt percentage .260, .500
FT percentage .750, .944
assists 3.3, 6.3
steals .8, 1.3
turnovers 2.4, 2.0
rebounds 3.3, 5.0
minutes 35, 41.5

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
Not trying to duplicate the first post in this thread, but the difference in JJ's game is amazing since the trade.

Before,after

Shooting percentage .391, .505
3 pt percentage .260, .500
FT percentage .750, .944
assists 3.3, 6.3
steals .8, 1.3
turnovers 2.4, 2.0
rebounds 3.3, 5.0
minutes 35, 41.5

Assuming he had flu against the Nuggets, he is averaging 23.5 ppg in the other games. This is more than Paul Pierce's ppg for the season. Think Boston might like that trade back?

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Assuming he had flu against the Nuggets, he is averaging 23.5 ppg in the other games. This is more than Paul Pierce's ppg for the season. Think Boston might like that trade back?

If we think he struggled playing behind/alongside Penny Hardaway imagine he was still in Boston with Paul Pierce.

Slin, let's wait until he shows he can play like this consistently for more than a week or two before we go over to the Boston Celtics message boards to give them crap about trading away JJ.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
If we think he struggled playing behind/alongside Penny Hardaway imagine he was still in Boston with Paul Pierce.

Slin, let's wait until he shows he can play like this consistently for more than a week or two before we go over to the Boston Celtics message boards to give them crap about trading away JJ.

Joe Mama

Earlier in the season I visited the Boston site and they were taking about the JJ trade even when he wasn't playing that well.

Actually, when he was in Boston they had PP at SF and Walker at PF. But JJ was terribly passive and the Celtics wanted to make a push that year.

 

[cly2tw]

JJ just needs Kobe like Pippen needed MJ to win championships!

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
Now, I am perfectly willing to eat crow, but it'll be a couple weeks before I'm confident in JJ's play.

It will be a lot longer than that for me. The Suns are just playing exhibition games now.

You think the players think that??

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin
You think the players think that??

Whether they will admit it or not I think they know they would take a minor miracle to get them into the playoffs. They also know there isn't a lot of pressure from the organization or the public at this point to get there. It's almost like the last several games of last season with a new they were already in the playoffs.

If Joe Johnson can keep up this type of productivity through the end of this season I'm pretty sure he will have won me over. I do think he's capable. Of course if he keeps up this kind of productivity and schooling to take all of that salary cap space the Suns have freed up to re-sign him.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Whether they will admit it or not I think they know they would take a minor miracle to get them into the playoffs. They also know there isn't a lot of pressure from the organization or the public at this point to get there. It's almost like the last several games of last season with a new they were already in the playoffs.

If Joe Johnson can keep up this type of productivity through the end of this season I'm pretty sure he will have won me over. I do think he's capable. Of course if he keeps up this kind of productivity and schooling to take all of that salary cap space the Suns have freed up to re-sign him.

Joe Mama

I agree. My biggest concern with the "sign Kobe at any price" has been my fear that the Suns would start losiing a bunch of key players because they ran out money.

I do have a slightly different take on JJ. I believe he has turned the corner. I expect him to have slumps, but I think they will be shorter and his good periods will become longer. We will not really know how good he is until the Suns get back to the playoffs and that extra pressure is imposed. That is where the great from the very good get separated.