Joe Johnson - Our Future point guard?

[Yuma]

Suns notebook: Johnson seems to be getting the team’s point

By Mike Tulumello, Tribune

The Suns, often known for going small in recent seasons, are thinking big these days.
The club will continue to experiment with Joe Johnson at point guard, coach Mike D’Antoni said Wednesday.

"We’ll see if he’s comfortable there," D’Antoni said.

The change allows the Suns to field a big lineup, giving them a nearly Magic Johnson-sized point guard, and allows them to squeeze in more minutes for rookie forward Zarko Cabarkapa.

The experiment "could weigh into decisions down the line," the Suns coach said.


Interesting that they are basing future decisions on this!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I have been pretty firm along with a couple of others that a JJ/Kobe backcourt would be the best in the NBA. The size, scoring ability, defensive ability and the ability to intiate the offense would be amazing.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Yuma
The Suns, often known for going small in recent seasons, are thinking big these days. The club will continue to experiment with Joe Johnson at point guard, coach Mike D’Antoni said Wednesday.

"We’ll see if he’s comfortable there," D’Antoni said.

The change allows the Suns to field a big lineup, giving them a nearly Magic Johnson-sized point guard, and allows them to squeeze in more minutes for rookie forward Zarko Cabarkapa.

The experiment "could weigh into decisions down the line," the Suns coach said.

If the Suns ever make this a permanent move, it would be the 2nd time in their 35 year history that they moved a player to a "lighter" position.

The other was Walter Davis, moving from Small Forward to Shooting Guard, when Larry Nance arrived as the first of the 6'10" Small Forwards. And it worked well.

We've waited a long time for the Suns to go strong, rather than moving players to "heavier" positions.

 

[George O'Brien]

If nothing else, this may end all playing time for Eisley. Eisley has looked awful lately and has hurt the team on both sides of the ball. Barbosa has been up and down, but he has been playing less and less like like a point guard anyway.

The general consensus is that Vujanic will be more of a Dwayne Wade type guard than a true point guard, so having JJ at point would make sense even if the Kobe thing falls through.

 

[PhxGametime]

Combo guard maybe but he doesn't remind me much of Wade - Wade was excellent rebounder, shotblocker, post-up, etc in college (plays big). Milos Vujanic plays much like Tony Parker, perhaps with less PG skills - although in game he played only around 20 mins. I understand though if you're not making player comparison but position similarities.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I have been pretty firm along with a couple of others that a JJ/Kobe backcourt would be the best in the NBA. The size, scoring ability, defensive ability and the ability to intiate the offense would be amazing.

Exactly. Just the prospects of JJ and Kobe as a starting backcourt is almost too amazing to think about... :notworthy

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm intrigued at the idea of a Kobe/JJ backcourt, but the team might be better with someone who can really knock down the outside shots. Let's face it. If the Phoenix Suns landed Kobe Bryant, he and Amare Stoudemire should have the ball in their hands most of the time. They will need teammates who can bury open shots to make opposing defenses pay for double teams.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I'm intrigued at the idea of a Kobe/JJ backcourt, but the team might be better with someone who can really knock down the outside shots. Let's face it. If the Phoenix Suns landed Kobe Bryant, he and Amare Stoudemire should have the ball in their hands most of the time. They will need teammates who can bury open shots to make opposing defenses pay for double teams.

Joe Mama

I think that definitely a flawed view of it. You can't be saying that we would be better with say, Jon Barry than Kobe Bryant... because he's a shooter that won't be double-teamed.

 

[PhxGametime]

How about - Wesley Person with Vet. Min.

Joe Johnson PG
Kobe Bryant SG
Shawn Marion SF
Amare Stoudemire PF

bench:

[shooters] -

Leandro Barbosa
Milos Vujanic
Casey Jacobsen
Wesley Person
Zarko Cabarkapa
Maciej Lampe

Suns could substitute a shooter at each position.

 

[F-Dog]

I don't know why I keep bothering to say this, but Kobe and Joe J are a horrible fit in the same backcourt. Kobe and Leandrinho would be ten times better.


As for Joe J at PG, I don't think he has the handle to play the point for long stretches. Plus, he's not an outstanding post player, so he's not going to be punishing opposing point guards on the low block (especially if Amare and Jake are also out there).

I think it could work for a few minutes at a time, because Zarko can share the playmaking duties. I guess I'll get to find out one way or another, though...

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog

I think it could work for a few minutes at a time, because Zarko can share the playmaking duties. I guess I'll get to find out one way or another, though...

If you don't think JJ can do it, what makes you think that Z could do it? He's shown A LOT less than JJ.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I think that definitely a flawed view of it. You can't be saying that we would be better with say, Jon Barry than Kobe Bryant... because he's a shooter that won't be double-teamed.

I'm not sure how you got the idea that I would rather have Jon Barry than Kobe Bryant.

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Let's face it. If the Phoenix Suns landed Kobe Bryant, he and Amare Stoudemire should have the ball in their hands most of the time. They will need teammates who can bury open shots to make opposing defenses pay for double teams.[/B]

I'm sorry. I thought it was pretty clear that I was saying that the Suns might be better with a backcourt of Kobe Bryant and somebody else who can hit open shots more consistently than JJ. I realize we haven't seen him play yet, but I was thinking that Vujanic might be that player. Still, I am intrigued at the prospect of a Kobe Bryant/JJ backcourt. Defensively I think they could be very good.

F-dog, I like Barbosa, but I don't see what would make him a better fit with Kobe Bryant than JJ. Frankly I think JJ is probably a better ball handler. He's much better at creating in the half-court offense... at least at this point. He's a much better defender. I think he's actually very good that posting up smaller players. I really don't understand why they don't go to him more in the low post. I just question his outside shot.

Regarding Barbosa, I'm not even sure he's really good enough to be a starter in the NBA. I think he's a very good player. I think he was a great pickup at the end of the first round. I'm honestly hoping that he isn't in the starting backcourt for the Phoenix Suns next year though.

Joe Mama

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Chaplin
If you don't think JJ can do it, what makes you think that Z could do it? He's shown A LOT less than JJ.

Because they would be out there together, to share the playmaking chores. For instance, one thing that Zarko has shown that JJ has not is that he can bust zones, so we wouldn't have to worry as much about teams going to zone defenses against the PG-less Suns and completely shutting them down.

I'm saying that JJ might be able to do it because Zarko would help, not that Zarko would make a great PG.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
F-dog, I like Barbosa, but I don't see what would make him a better fit with Kobe Bryant than JJ.

He's able to hit a high percentage of open catch-and-shoot 3-pointers doled out at irregularly-spaced intervals, he can guard quick PGs, and he gets the ball up court and out of his hands quickly. Sounds like an ideal fit to play with Kobe if you ask me.

Joe Johnson is at his best handling the ball and creating off the dribble. He had enough trouble playing with Penny and Steph; with Kobe and Amare, my guess is that JJ's offense would completely collapse.


I'm not saying that Barbosa is better than Joe J or that he will ever be better, but if I'm building a team around Kobe, I'm going to want players who are efficient scorers and can play without the ball, and that's not Joe Johnson's game.

 

[Joe Mama]

I've been less than enamored with Barbosa's defense lately. Opposing guards are easily getting by him to the basket. Also, while I like his three-point shooting he does little else in the half-court offense.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog
Because they would be out there together, to share the playmaking chores. For instance, one thing that Zarko has shown that JJ has not is that he can bust zones, so we wouldn't have to worry as much about teams going to zone defenses against the PG-less Suns and completely shutting them down.

I'm saying that JJ might be able to do it because Zarko would help, not that Zarko would make a great PG.

What makes you think that Z has ANY playmaking abilities at all? He certainly hasn't shown that he's got any.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Chaplin
What makes you think that Z has ANY playmaking abilities at all? He certainly hasn't shown that he's got any.

He showed something before he was injured. The fact that they're changing around the lineup to give him extra minutes suggests to me that he's showing something in practice.

If Zarko isn't ready or able to help distribute the ball, the 'JJ at point' experiment is going to get ugly. That's all I've been saying.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog
He showed something before he was injured. The fact that they're changing around the lineup to give him extra minutes suggests to me that he's showing something in practice.

If Zarko isn't ready or able to help distribute the ball, the 'JJ at point' experiment is going to get ugly. That's all I've been saying.

I just think that talking about Z is like pulling a name out of a hat. He's shown about as much playmaking ability as CJ. Joe Johnson has shown loads more ability at it than Z has.

You mention before his injury. Z was primarily a finisher before his injury (which led to the incident with Fortson in the first place), plus he had a total of 6 assists in the (only) 11 games he played in before the injury.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I've been less than enamored with Barbosa's defense lately. Opposing guards are easily getting by him to the basket. Also, while I like his three-point shooting he does little else in the half-court offense.

Joe Mama

I can't comment on Barbosa's defense because I haven't seen the last few games, but I don't think the 'other' guard will need to do anything in the half court (besides move w/o the ball and hit open shots) with Kobe around.

If Kobe spurns the Lakers and Spurs to go to Phoenix, he won't be looking to stand around on offense much when he gets there.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I just think that talking about Z is like pulling a name out of a hat. He's shown about as much playmaking ability as CJ. Joe Johnson has shown loads more ability at it than Z has.

You mention before his injury. Z was primarily a finisher before his injury (which led to the incident with Fortson in the first place), plus he had a total of 6 assists in the (only) 11 games he played in before the injury.

Zarko was able to make zone defenses bend out of shape, which is not something the other four players in this projected lineup are good at. If he can't still do that, other teams will play zone against that lineup and reduce the Suns to playing dump-and-chase.

Assists are sometimes an accurate indicator of playmaking skill, and other times they're not. If I said that Damon Stoudamire was a better playmaker than Kobe...see what I mean?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog
Zarko was able to make zone defenses bend out of shape, which is not something the other four players in this projected lineup are good at. If he can't still do that, other teams will play zone against that lineup and reduce the Suns to playing dump-and-chase.

Assists are sometimes an accurate indicator of playmaking skill, and other times they're not. If I said that Damon Stoudamire was a better playmaker than Kobe...see what I mean?

Being able to stretch a zone does not mean the guy is a playmaker.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Being able to stretch a zone does not mean the guy is a playmaker.

If all he needed to do was 'stretch' a zone, I would have nominated Casey.

Zarko is a playmaker because he makes plays. Making plays includes getting your own shot and setting up other players, even players who are two passes away. If Zarko can't make enough plays against zone defenses...etc., etc.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Exactly. Just the prospects of JJ and Kobe as a starting backcourt is almost too amazing to think about... :notworthy

Man, I am not used to having someone agree with almost everything I say (and Im not used to agreeing with another person so much either).

Its freakin me out man

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by F-Dog
If all he needed to do was 'stretch' a zone, I would have nominated Casey.

Zarko is a playmaker because he makes plays. Making plays includes getting your own shot and setting up other players, even players who are two passes away. If Zarko can't make enough plays against zone defenses...etc., etc.

You know, you have been able to infer a lot about Zarko's abilities from pretty much no view of him. He has played sparingly the entire season, and had like 2 good games before the injury.



JJ is a play maker because he can get his shot off better than Z. He can also set up other players very easily. He is also a matchup nightmare (so much teams have to focus on him now).




Anyways, the point of a JJ/Kobe back court isn't so there is 1 playmaker. Both players have proven the ability to intiate the offense. A Kobe/Amare/Marion/JJ group does not need alot of set plays. There doesn't have to be any fancy ball handling, or tricky offensive sets. A point guard is simply not a requirement. At that point, you look at which lineup makes the opponents job harder.

The other team would have to have all 5 players over 6'7" in order to matchup height wise with our starting 5. That just doesn't happen. JJ and Kobe would be able to lock down any other backcourt in the league, without question.

 

[elindholm]

You know, you have been able to infer a lot about Zarko's abilities from pretty much no view of him.

That's nothing compared to what George O'Brien is able to tell about Lampe and Vujanic.