John From Cincinnati (HBO)

[Chaplin]

Niether did Lucky Louie or Carnivale.

Lucky Louie, yes.

Carnivale? The only reason it was cancelled was that it cost over $2 million PER EPISODE to film. That's the same price it cost Rome to film a single episode.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Lucky Louie, yes.

Carnivale? The only reason it was cancelled was that it cost over $2 million PER EPISODE to film. That's the same price it cost Rome to film a single episode.

Hey chap got the whole 2 seasons through netflix. watching episodes 5-6. Interesting show. Not quite as good as Rome imo but one of the best HBO ever made so far.

 

[Chaplin]

Hey chap got the whole 2 seasons through netflix. watching episodes 5-6. Interesting show. Not quite as good as Rome imo but one of the best HBO ever made so far.

Personally, I prefer Carnivale over Rome, but both are very high on the "Must See" scale. (And of course, neither one approaches Deadwood)

 

[Joe Mama]

Crap. I can swear with the best of them, but I just couldn't take it anymore. Nobody, anywhere, talks like that. I worked construction for 4 years and heard and used some of the worst language imaginable... until deadwood and now this.

I really don't understand it. At least in deadwood and swearing was somewhat creative. In this show it was just dumb and ugly.

If it wasn't for that I probably would have finished watching the show and next week's episode to give it a chance.

Joe

 

[Beaver]

The show was definitely hard to follow. I'm sure it will get better. As for the language, they do sound stupid throwing out the fbomb every other word, but I know people who talk like that. The Joe Strummer song during the opening was great.

 

[Renz]

Great episode last night. I really like this show so far. The cast is great, especially Ed O'Neill, Bruce Greenwood and "Butchie".

 

[Gaddabout]

I told my wife last night I could get into this show if I could ever figure out what it's about.

 

[Southpaw]

Great episode last night. I really like this show so far. The cast is great, especially Ed O'Neill, Bruce Greenwood and "Butchie".

Gotta love Ramone, Luis Cruz. That guy is a pro no matter the role.

 

[Southpaw]

I told my wife last night I could get into this show if I could ever figure out what it's about.

It's about fun. Going into a bit of supernatural/ surrealism. Dysfunctional family gets interrupted by a little strange stuff that just might starighten them out. ???????

 

[Cheesebeef]

the first episode was weird enough for me to say i'd give it one more episode and the second got me to say I WANT to see the third. that's good enough for me at this point.

 

[O]

the first episode was weird enough for me to say i'd give it one more episode and the second got me to say I WANT to see the third. that's good enough for me at this point.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Gaddabout]

It's about fun. Going into a bit of supernatural/ surrealism. Dysfunctional family gets interrupted by a little strange stuff that just might starighten them out. ???????

So is it safe to say John from Cincinnati is neither John nor from Cincy? I'm half expecting him to pull the mask off, and it's really Jeff Bridges as Star Man.

I like weird. I have a harder time with post-modernism/surrealism, but I guess I'm onboard for awhile because my heart is telling my head there will be some kind of modernistic "we have a point" payoff. We shall see!

 

[Southpaw]

So is it safe to say John from Cincinnati is neither John nor from Cincy? I'm half expecting him to pull the mask off, and it's really Jeff Bridges as Star Man.

I like weird. I have a harder time with post-modernism/surrealism, but I guess I'm onboard for awhile because my heart is telling my head there will be some kind of modernistic "we have a point" payoff. We shall see!

http://www.hbo.com/johnfromcincinnati/cast/characters/johnmonad.html

John materialized from the mist of the Tijuana Sloughs one morning. Repeating phrases he picks up around Imperial Beach, he has a disconcerting habit of rambling nonsense in the tone of a message. Tagging along as Butchie's surf student, John seems to be studying more than waves, approaching every experience as if for the first time. No one knows who he is or where he's from - Cincinnati sounds as likely a place as any - but from the moment he arrived, random miracles have arisen in town. As it turns out, John's oddness dovetails well with the Yosts, who are so outlandish themselves that they don't immediately notice the phenomena unfolding around them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So is it safe to say John from Cincinnati is neither John nor from Cincy? I'm half expecting him to pull the mask off, and it's really Jeff Bridges as Star Man.

I like weird. I have a harder time with post-modernism/surrealism, but I guess I'm onboard for awhile because my heart is telling my head there will be some kind of modernistic "we have a point" payoff. We shall see!

put two and two together - J ohn and C incinatti... constant references to "the end is near"... what do you want? The guy is Milch's Jesus/Savior. J.C. - John from Cincinatti.

 

[Southpaw]

John Monad, as in ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad )

HBO hopes to stoke its franchise with 'John From Cincinnati.'
Surf meets ethereal turf in cable network's new drama
By Lynn Smith, Times Staff Writer
June 3, 2007

LAST year, it was known as "the show they canceled 'Deadwood' for." Now, some say it's "the show that could replace 'The Sopranos.' "

Expectations are running so high in some quarters for David Milch's multilayered surf family saga, "John From Cincinnati," launching next Sunday, its creators don't even want to discuss them. If HBO, a premiere network in flux, wants to maintain its reputation for high-quality original programming, it must come up with new programs that reach the critical highs of former heavyweights "Six Feet Under" and "Sex and the City" as the popularity of the soon-to-expire "The Sopranos," a cultural touchstone, may be impossible to match.

With the loss of those hits, and the recent forced departure of Chairman and Chief Executive Chris Albrecht, HBO's reputation as TV's foremost incubator of innovation hangs in the balance. So far, its newer series "Big Love" and "Entourage" have remained basically niche shows. While HBO has downplayed its expectations for "John," it signaled its ambition by scheduling the premiere immediately after the "Sopranos" finale.

Unlike broadcast networks, HBO doesn't aim for mass-appeal blockbusters; each show is "targeted" to specific demographics among subscribers, said Dave Baldwin, executive vice president of program planning. "John," he said, is aimed at young men 18 to 34 who are attracted to its themes of surfing and metaphysical mystery. " 'John' is one we were excited about," said Carolyn Strauss, HBO's president of entertainment, adding that the network is in a period of "great creative energy and enthusiasm."

"John's" particular promise derives from its pedigree: The 10-part series was created from an idea by Milch (the literary force behind "Hill Street Blues," "NYPD Blue" and "Deadwood"), combined with a pitch from San Clemente surf couple Herb and Dibi Fletcher and input from Kem Nunn, California's surf noir novelist ("Tapping the Source," "Tijuana Straights").

"John" tends to follow a certain HBO formula — an unusual setting, a dysfunctional family, an unconventional narrative and enough creative rope for the executive producers to hang a masterpiece, or themselves. The production has been "crazy as usual" for a Milch project, according to Milch associates. Scripts were written just before shooting began. At least two episodes remained to be shot weeks before the premiere, an unusual situation for HBO.

HBO stressed that it did not purchase rights to "Tijuana Straits," set in the seamy surfside border, though "John From Cincinnati" is also set in Imperial Beach. Nor, representatives said, does the story about a celebrated but troubled surfing family, the Yosts, have anything to do with the Fletchers' life story, a flamboyant mix of '60s sunshine and shadow.

In the show, a mysterious, seemingly mentally challenged stranger named John Monad appears and the Yosts' lives start to change in paranormal ways. If you know that a monad is the smallest indivisible unit of the universe and that John delivers lines such as "See God," you get the picture.

During a break on the set, Milch was asked to boil down the premise of the series. His 20-minute response touched on German philosophy, 9/11 and physics. At some level, he said, the show is about his own sense that all matter "organic and inorganic" is part of a single energy source. "The idea of the separate identity of each individual is an illusion," he said. Nunn agreed. "The wonderful thing we hope people would see is the connectedness of these people. In fact, we're all part of the same organism at some level."

As the show unfolds, characters who seem to be separate find out they're having the same dreams. Characters surf waves of time and light along with ocean swells. John, in other words, isn't really from Cincinnati.

*

[email protected]

 

[Gaddabout]

put two and two together - J ohn and C incinatti... constant references to "the end is near"... what do you want? The guy is Milch's Jesus/Savior. J.C. - John from Cincinatti.

I was going to suggest John seems cast as a Christ-like figure, I just didn't want to sound cliche' for the illuminati among us. You do make an interesting observation.

Thanks for the background, Wally. I didn't catch all of the first episode, so that is very helpful. I'll enjoy the show more now.

 

[Gaddabout]

During a break on the set, Milch was asked to boil down the premise of the series. His 20-minute response touched on German philosophy, 9/11 and physics. At some level, he said, the show is about his own sense that all matter "organic and inorganic" is part of a single energy source. "The idea of the separate identity of each individual is an illusion," he said. Nunn agreed. "The wonderful thing we hope people would see is the connectedness of these people. In fact, we're all part of the same organism at some level."

So we're right back on Kierkegaard, just like the Matrix. This supports my theory that Soren Kierkegaard has become the philosophical/theological port of preference for the 21st Century. A fusion of Enlightenment, familiar Christology, and existentialism.

Ce la vie, Kant? Adios, Hegel?

This is really getting my brain thinking about what we have in store for the future. The 20th Century was the century of innovation, the grand finale of modernism. We keep hearing the 21st Century is the century of discovery, but I think it will become the century of story telling, of narrative. That is the strength of Kierkegaard. That is the basis of Kierkegaard.

 

[Gaddabout]

One should not think slightingly of the paradoxical; for the paradox is the source of the thinker’s passion, and the thinker without a paradox is like a lover without feeling: a paltry mediocrity. But the highest pitch of every passion is always to will its own downfall; and so it is also the supreme passion of the Reason to seek a collision, though this collision must in one way or another prove its undoing. The supreme paradox of all thought is the attempt to discover something that thought cannot think. This passion is at bottom present in all thinking, even in the thinking of the individual, in so far as in thinking he participates in something transcending himself. But habit dulls our sensibilities, and prevents us from perceiving it

-excerpt from Ch. 3 of Philosophical Fragments by Soren Kierkegaard.

 

[Southpaw]

It is John Monad's universe.

 

[Gaddabout]

It is John Monad's universe.

I'd say it sounds more like Max Velman's universe of reflexive monism, but I'm no expert on the subject.

I think it's always a little troublesome to retrofit a Christ figure into a monistic view, because Christianity is so squarely set in bipartate or tripartate point of view. Monism is essentially the strongest hope for humanism, so the need for a sacrificial savior is rendered unnecessary. I guess that's the point of view of the producers, though. John Monad is not there to change lives, but to merely change perspectives. This point of view of Christ, ironically, was first most strongly supported by the Coptic Orthodox Church.

 

[Southpaw]

I'd say it sounds more like Max Velman's universe of reflexive monism, but I'm no expert on the subject.

I think it's always a little troublesome to retrofit a Christ figure into a monistic view, because Christianity is so squarely set in bipartate or tripartate point of view. Monism is essentially the strongest hope for humanism, so the need for a sacrificial savior is rendered unnecessary. I guess that's the point of view of the producers, though. John Monad is not there to change lives, but to merely change perspectives. This point of view of Christ, ironically, was first most strongly supported by the Coptic Orthodox Church.

I don't see the Christ figure.

What I do see is someone/thing ( John ) that is changing the rules of the game as it is being played.

 

[Gaddabout]

I don't see the Christ figure.

It's always debatable what a Christ figure in literature or film is. Traditionally it's required extreme self-sacrifice of some sort, but it's more recently come to define a character that represents metaphysical innocence. Forrest Gump fits this mold. Raymond Babbitt in Rain Man is another.

Neo in the Matrix is specifically in the traditional form. So is William Wallace in Braveheart. I would argue Andy Dufresne in Shawshank Redemption is the most implicit traditional Christ figure in modern film (right down to the baptism scene at the end of the movie), but I've not persuaded many with that one.

 

[Southpaw]

Ahh, the convenient Christ.

 

[Gaddabout]

Lyrics - Johnny Appleseed

Was curious about the theme song. Turns out it's Johnny Appleseed by Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros.

Lord, there goes Johnny Appleseed
He might pass by in the hour of need
There's a lot of souls
Ain't drinking from no well locked in a factory

Hey - look there goes
Hey - look there goes
If you're after getting the honey - hey
Then you don't go killing all the bees

Lord, there goes Martin Luther King
Notice how the door closes when the chimes of freedom ring
I hear what you're saying, I hear what he's saying
*Is what was true now no longer so

Hey - I hear what you're saying
Hey - I hear what he's saying
If you're after getting the honey - hey
Then you don't go killing all the bees

What the people are saying
And we know every road - go, go
What the people are saying
There ain't no berries on the trees

Let the summertime sun
Fall on the apple - fall on the apple

Lord, there goes a Buick forty-nine
Black sheep of the angels riding, riding down the line
We think there is a soul, we don't know
That soul is hard to find

Hey - down along the road
Hey - down along the road
If you're after getting the honey
Then you don't go killing all the bees

Hey - it's what the people are saying
It's what the people are saying
Hey - there ain't no berries on the trees
Hey - that's what the people are saying, no berries on the trees
You're checking out the honey, baby
You had to go killin' all the bees

 

[Southpaw]

See God Kai.

Holy Crap. Show kicks ass.