Johnson says 'no hard feelings' with Suns after trade

[Mainstreet]

Exactly. They decided Dan Gadzuric was better than Pachulia.

He is vastly overrated.

So come back to me in three years when Pachulia is 24 and has three years to develop (JJ is presently 24) and tell me which player you want on your team then.

Just because the Bucks liked Gadzuric over Pachulia does not mean they made the right decision.

So if I'm wrong about Pachulia developing into a good FC, I'll be happy to admit it in three years. You see I'm not afraid to be wrong about a player.

I just cannot understand how you can dismiss Pachulia's potential so easily.

Fordronken, by the way I did not say Pachulia was the best player in the NBA nor meant to imply this. The intent of my wording was to be construed in the context of evaluating a 21 year FC's upside (who put up some decent stats).

Yes, I believe he will develop into a very nice big man. And if he does, few teams will be able to afford him. IMO, the best chance of getting a quality big man is to either get lucky in the draft, or draft a young project who has the ability to develop into a good big man.

I view Pachulia in the latter category. I think Pachulia has already proven he is a worthy project. Again let's talk again when he's 24.

The proof is in the pudding.

Those who think Pachulia will be a bust are entitled to their opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

I guess I just do not understand the certainty of the naysayers who write off this 21 year old player. Actually, I think many on this board thought JJ was a bust at this age and I was one of JJ's most vocal supporters (to give him time to develop).

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I think that Zaza is a nice project player, just like I thought Lampe was. The problem is for all of these big men that have flashes of greatness very few actually turn into stars, let alone viable role players.

Do I think the Hawks got Zaza for a good deal? I guess so since no one wants to come to their town and they had a gaping hole in the middle. However if the Suns spent 4 million on Zaza I would have been livid.

I am not saying that the Bucks made the right decision in Gadzuric over Zaza, but I think it is safe to say that he is overrated. There were 30 teams with at least as much money as Zaza got this summer, and the Hawks were the only ones to pony up 4 million dollars. There IS a reason for that.

Don't get me wrong, I am not dismissing Zaza's potential. I think he has some there, although I obviously don't think he has as much. I am also very certain that I will rather have Joe, who actually has more potential than Zaza right now. I guess time will tell though. You say you take big over small, which is generally a popular guideline. However there is something to be said of a 6'8 playmaker......

Anyways, I am not afraid of being wrong about a player either. I am sure you have paid attention to how much I want Luke Jackson here who hasn't shown anything on a pro level.

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyways, I am not afraid of being wrong about a player either. I am sure you have paid attention to how much I want Luke Jackson here who hasn't shown anything on a pro level.

I tell you what, I'll trust you with Luke Jackson if you trust me with Zaza. Then when the Suns win a Championship we'll both be right. We'll work out a couple sign and trades somewhere along the line.


Seriously, I think alot of scouting involves alot of luck and the right player being lucky enough to be drafted by the right team. In regard to scouting, I remember I wanted another big man in the Stoudemire draft like a Gadzuric or Boozer with Phoenix' second first round choice. I don't remember, but I bet you did too. Did the Suns do it... no. Were there good players taken in the second round... certainly. It happens every year.

Also wasn't Ben Wallace undrafted. Athletic ability can be measured to a degree, however, it's hard for a team to measure the heart of a player and his desire to improve.

I would almost bet if Jeff Hornacek had been drafted by a team other than the Suns, he probably would have never achieved the success he achieved with Phoenix and later in Utah. Often times, I think he would have been cut.

I think there is a very fine line in finding and developing talent. Often times beauty is in the eye of the beholder and how a team plans to use that player. Steven Hunter is also an excellent example from last year of a waiver wire player getting the right chance to show his stuff.

 

[George O'Brien]

There is a certain irony in using Ben Wallace as an example. Wallace was traded by Washington to Orlando (along with several other players) for Isaac Austin. Austin was an absolute prototype of the "one year wonder" that completely disappeared after getting a good contract based on one good season. Austin had a very good season and was widely promoted as an up and coming star - but then nada.

I'm not saying that Zaza is going to disappear, but he hasn't really proven himself yet either. For the Hawks he's a good pickup. They aren't going to get anyone to play center that has proven they can play.

 

[Mainstreet]

There is a certain irony in using Ben Wallace as an example. Wallace was traded by Washington to Orlando (along with several other players) for Isaac Austin. Austin was an absolute prototype of the "one year wonder" that completely disappeared after getting a good contract based on one good season. Austin had a very good season and was widely promoted as an up and coming star - but then nada.

I'm not saying that Zaza is going to disappear, but he hasn't really proven himself yet either. For the Hawks he's a good pickup. They aren't going to get anyone to play center that has proven they can play.

George, I'm not sure where you are going with Austin. I was simply pointing out that good talent sometimes falls through the cracks unrecognized.

All the NBA teams in the draft passed on Ben Wallace as he was not even drafted (I believe Robert Pack and Avery Johnson went undrafted as well). Sure there are some one year wonders as well. However, I think Pachulia has too much ability to be one. I admit I could be wrong, but if I was a GM that had the money, I would have rolled the dice on him.

At least Isaac Austin was drafted, unlike some players, and several teams gave him a good try. I frankly was unimpressed with Austin as I did not think he was athletic or quick enough to play in the NBA.

I think there is a remark in one of the posts that thirty teams (perhaps 29) that passed over Zaza that had the money to sign him for next year. Does this impress me? Frankly not. Zaza had some decent stats this past year for a 21 year old. If he would have had even a better year, perhaps Gadzuric probably would have been on his way out.

In essence, I have seen glimpses of a young FC on the way up. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I'm not.

I found it somewhat funny that someone (except perhaps besides myself.... strictly based upon a one year observation period) could over-rate a first year center. I wanted Pachulia based upon the skills he displayed on the court, some modest scoring, modest rebounding, some good inside moves and decent shooting. If Pachulia continues to improve into double digit scoring and rebounding in the next year or two, there are going to be some sorry looking GM's out there. And Pachulia has at least one year playing experience in the NBA under his belt.

Really, it's very hard for a first year player to prove himself (with players like Wilt, Kareem, Shaq and Lebron being a few exceptions) at such a young age.

I just wanted the Suns to catch Zaza on the escalator up and as they're unlikely to get him for their team if he reaches the top.

So if the rest of the fans on this Board disagree... please move past me in the line. I am only explaining my reasoning for liking Zaza as a player. In the next three years or so everyone will probably have a good handle on which way Pachulia is going.

If he is going down all the fans will say I told you so. If he is going up, no one will remember my remarks... that's how it goes.

 

[George O'Brien]

For the right price I would have liked the Suns to have picked Zaza up. However, he got a $16 million contract after averaging only 18.9 minutes a game on a team that felt obliged to draft a center. The Bucks are a team where Marcus Fizer averaged 16.7 minutes a game, so it is not clear why Zaza didn't get more minutes.

In a summer where even Diop gets attention, Zaza's only suitor appears to have been the Hawks. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but either the Bucks are idiots or Zaza's stats are deceptive.