Jonathan Isaac

[Raliu]

I like the idea of trade down or even trade away #4 this year for 2019 draft (when Dudley and Chandler left, perhaps Warren as well).

Stay at #4, the pick is a SF, where Warren seems to be just fine for now, I don't know if there is a reason Suns needs a backup or replacement.

Now the front court is crowded with young talents, looking 3 year after from now, Warren+Bender+Chris+Jones Jr. are likely the cornerstone, not all of them can be Team 1, that's a good thing because no team can have 3 Team 1 front court players, thus we can stay stable for a while. I would image Warren as starter SF, Bender as "point center" or Frye-like big-3, Chris and Jones take turn start and more focus on D.

In case trade down, I feel a combo guard or a wing (or a player not exactly finds his feet in the 2 positions yet) is the choice, e.g Dozier. In return for another 2019 1st round.

 

[leclerc]

I wasn't advocating tanking "at this point". I agreed we should focus on winning. But the cost of playing very young players almost always shows up in the win/loss column.

Expecting a core group that might not even average out to drinking age to play anywhere near their potential is just asking for disappointment. If we reach that point in the season where it's clear we can't compete for a playoff spot, then we should and likely will shift from winning to developing youth as our priority.

If coach keeps playing Duds and Meep Meep deep into the season while the kids play 10 minutes here and there I'll go ballistic. I harped on consistent playing time all of last season. Don't make me go there Earl! I don't expect playoffs but I expect them to try with the young core getting heavy minutes.

 

[leclerc]

I think we absolutely can pick a SF at #4 and add to our core. Neither of Chriss, Bender and Warren is a sure thing all star, and there is enough playing time for another forward in that group. If many of them turn out great and command more playing time than we can give them then we do a trade. It's a nice problem to potentially have. Just remember to do the right trade this time.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I like the idea of trade down or even trade away #4 this year for 2019 draft (when Dudley and Chandler left, perhaps Warren as well).

Stay at #4, the pick is a SF, where Warren seems to be just fine for now, I don't know if there is a reason Suns needs a backup or replacement.

Now the front court is crowded with young talents, looking 3 year after from now, Warren+Bender+Chris+Jones Jr. are likely the cornerstone, not all of them can be Team 1, that's a good thing because no team can have 3 Team 1 front court players, thus we can stay stable for a while. I would image Warren as starter SF, Bender as "point center" or Frye-like big-3, Chris and Jones take turn start and more focus on D.

In case trade down, I feel a combo guard or a wing (or a player not exactly finds his feet in the 2 positions yet) is the choice, e.g Dozier. In return for another 2019 1st round.

I absolutely completely disagree. This is a very good draft and we should get a quality player at #4 even if he isn't the level of the top 3. The top 6 or 7 players in this draft could easily be better than the top 1 or 2 in future drafts.

 

[Raliu]

I absolutely completely disagree. This is a very good draft and we should get a quality player at #4 even if he isn't the level of the top 3. The top 6 or 7 players in this draft could easily be better than the top 1 or 2 in future drafts.

You forgot Marion and Stoudemire, they were both 9th pick. From 1999 draft, 8 players drafted prior than Marion and none of them are clearly better than Marion. From 2002 draft the top 8 draft, only Yao arguably is more valuable than Stoudemire.

More examples like: AK47 was draft 24th same year as Marion, Nash 15th, Kobe was 13th!! (Starbury was 4th in the same year as Nash and Kobe)

The point is, draft order doesn't guarantee career success, not even a very strong indication whether a player is better than the other.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You forgot Marion and Stoudemire, they were both 9th pick. From 1999 draft, 8 players drafted prior than Marion and none of them are clearly better than Marion. From 2002 draft the top 8 draft, only Yao arguably is more valuable than Stoudemire.

More examples like: AK47 was draft 24th same year as Marion, Nash 15th, Kobe was 13th!! (Starbury was 4th in the same year as Nash and Kobe)

The point is, draft order doesn't guarantee career success, not even a very strong indication whether a player is better than the other.

Straw man argument. No it doesn't "guarantee". There are no guarantees with the draft. But some drafts are clearly better than others. Also, generally speaking, the earlier pick is more likely to get you the better player.

 

[Folster]

Gambo is really bullish on Isaac. He's proven to be in tune with the front office although he gets less scoops with McDonough in charge. He still consistently announces our picks before even Woj. It's still way early, but I wonder if he has heard we are taking a hard look at Isaac at #4.

 

[Sunburn]

Y

The point is, draft order doesn't guarantee career success, not even a very strong indication whether a player is better than the other.

I disagree. Top five picks historically have a much greater rate of success in the league than lower taken players.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Gambo is really bullish on Isaac. He's proven to be in tune with the front office although he gets less scoops with McDonough in charge. He still consistently announces our picks before even Woj. It's still way early, but I wonder if he has heard we are taking a hard look at Isaac at #4.

I am not sure I buy it. We had no idea the Suns were really interested in Len until draft day. McD and company are usually pretty tight lipped at this stage. I think Gambo likes Isaac, and probably someone in the organization likes Isaac. I assume they are going to pump him and give him a good look, because there is really nothing bad that can come of that. If he looks good, they can pick him. If someone else picks him ahead of them, then one of Jackson, Fultz, or Ball drops. If I was the Suns, with their draft history lately, I would be "really high" on a number of players. It can only help.

We are going to be really interested in what Philly does. But for most of the rest of the teams, they are going to be really guessing about what we do. That 4th pick will really set the direction of the draft.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Don't know if this has been posted. For us, the real question is probably going to be Tatum or Isaac. This article is helpful.

http://fansided.com/2017/03/02/jayson-tatum-jonathan-isaac-matchup-breakdown/

This article is VERY telling. I was really leaning Isaac until I watched this.

Isaac cannot handle Tatum defensively. Tatum repeatedly blows by him one on one. Isaac looks slow footed and slow to react. I think this is partly because of how deceptively quick Tatum is and that Isaac's athleticism is not what it is reported to be.

Tatum has a deceptive first move. It doesn't look fast, but it is and he uses just enough body position to get off his shot.

I am not impressed with the defense of either one of them. I might take Isaac just because of the height advantage, but I am not confident about that. I am not sure Isaac has a defensive advantage over Tatum--not because Tatum is better than advertised, but because Isaac is worse.

 

[Mainstreet]

You forgot Marion and Stoudemire, they were both 9th pick. From 1999 draft, 8 players drafted prior than Marion and none of them are clearly better than Marion. From 2002 draft the top 8 draft, only Yao arguably is more valuable than Stoudemire.

More examples like: AK47 was draft 24th same year as Marion, Nash 15th, Kobe was 13th!! (Starbury was 4th in the same year as Nash and Kobe)

The point is, draft order doesn't guarantee career success, not even a very strong indication whether a player is better than the other.

Welcome to the Suns forum Raliu.

Invariably some really good players are drafted outside the top four or five players.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the draft comes down to Isaac or Tatum, I think the Suns draft Tatum. Tatum seems to be more of a sure thing while Isaac is raw.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the draft comes down to Isaac or Tatum, I think the Suns draft Tatum. Tatum seems to be more of a sure thing while Isaac is raw.

I think you might be right. It's the way the Suns have drafted lately. Booker was more of the sure thing when he was drafted. He was the best shooter in the draft and had the highest floor of anyone on the board. Same with TJ Warren (highest floor). If those choices are the examples, they would choose Tatum over Isaac.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If the draft comes down to Isaac or Tatum, I think the Suns draft Tatum. Tatum seems to be more of a sure thing while Isaac is raw.

Yeah, assuming Fultz isn't available, Tatum is our pick (if we take anybody) regardless who falls to us IMO. I'd feel better about it if we had a defensive stud at the 5, then we could probably get away with playing Jayson at the 4 where he will create positive mismatches for us.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah, assuming Fultz isn't available, Tatum is our pick (if we take anybody) regardless who falls to us IMO. I'd feel better about it if we had a defensive stud at the 5, then we could probably get away with playing Jayson at the 4 where he will create positive mismatches for us.

So, how about Jordan Bell at the 5 along side Tatum? It would be a smallish front line, but Bell plays bigger than he is. We would still have Tyson.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, assuming Fultz isn't available, Tatum is our pick (if we take anybody) regardless who falls to us IMO. I'd feel better about it if we had a defensive stud at the 5, then we could probably get away with playing Jayson at the 4 where he will create positive mismatches for us.

I've had a hard time wrapping my head around drafting Tatum but I think he will be a solid NBA player if not a star.

One of the reasons I have always considered a trade-down is the Suns need insurance at the center position. Getting a late first round pick would help in that cause. I could be happy with Markkanen and Isaac at #4 if the Suns were able to get a good center prospect (defensive stud) out of the draft with a later pick.

Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Fox are my top four prospects in the draft but I do not think the Suns draft Fox unless they trade down.

I'm not sure there is a huge difference in talent after these four players in the top ten.

The Suns might get lucky drafting a center at #32 but it is not a sure thing. I'd like a late first round pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So, how about Jordan Bell at the 5 along side Tatum? It would be a smallish front line, but Bell plays bigger than he is. We would still have Tyson.

I wouldn't count too much on Tyson, his defense really fell off the cliff last season. He still rebounds within his space very well but he doesn't give you much more and it's likely going to get worse quickly.

I haven't watched Bell other than the games against Arizona and UCLA and then the tourney so I'm not sure what to think of him. When I watched him I always thought he looked like a value player we should consider in the second round but I never thought of him as anything more that an end of the bench guy in the NBA. So I'll have to take another look at him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've had a hard time wrapping my head around drafting Tatum but I think he will be a solid NBA player if not a star.

One of the reasons I have always considered a trade-down is the Suns need insurance at the center position. Getting a late first round pick would help in that cause. I could be happy with Markkanen and Isaac at #4 if the Suns were able to get a good center prospect (defensive stud) out of the draft with a later pick.

Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Fox are my top four prospects in the draft but I do not think the Suns draft Fox unless they trade down.

I'm not sure there is a huge difference in talent after these four players in the top ten.

The Suns might get lucky drafting a center at #32 but it is not a sure thing. I'd like a late first round pick.

I think Fox is going to be a very good perimeter defender but his offense and PG skills aren't too much different than Eric's were at that stage. It's difficult to count on him improving even as much as Bledsoe did so I have real mixed feelings on him. That said, I'd take him over Ball or Jackson with no hesitation. Ball might end up being better but I wouldn't want the headaches and I just have zero interest in Josh.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So, how about Jordan Bell at the 5 along side Tatum? It would be a smallish front line, but Bell plays bigger than he is. We would still have Tyson.

We would get KILLED on the boards with bell at the 5. And I like bell. Remember his failure to box out UNC TWICE at the free throw line in the closing seconds of the semi final game cost Oregon the chance to tie or go ahead. His lack of bulk (and narrow frame) likely won't translate to the 5 at the NBA level.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Fox is going to be a very good perimeter defender but his offense and PG skills aren't too much different than Eric's were at that stage. It's difficult to count on him improving even as much as Bledsoe did so I have real mixed feelings on him. That said, I'd take him over Ball or Jackson with no hesitation. Ball might end up being better but I wouldn't want the headaches and I just have zero interest in Josh.

Unless the Suns do something surprising, I do not think they draft a PG at #4. Now if they trade down and Dennis Smith is there it could get interesting.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Unless the Suns do something surprising, I do not think they draft a PG at #4. Now if they trade down and Dennis Smith is there it could get interesting.

If they do take a PG in the top 10, I'd expect it to be Fox and despite what I've said, I don't hate that idea. He's so similar to Eric, many of the same strengths and many of the same weaknesses with health being the big difference. I just don't think we are going to target someone with significant injury history (Dennis) nor will we target someone with well-publicized off the court problems (not that Josh is a PG).

In this day and age, going after a player that's already exhibited "rage" behavior with women, is perhaps even more risky than taking a guy whose game depends on athleticism and has already torn his ACL once. When that injury happens that young, early onset arthritis is almost a given in addition to typically having to re-visit that injury/surgery 5 or so years later.

 

[Errntknght]

I was not impressed with Jackson's defense, he's got quick hands and he gambles for steals - with some success - but he's not like the PJ Tucker of a couple of years ago, bodying up close. Fairly good at slipping around screens but he doesn't have first rate footwork - he seems content to let his guy get a shoulder past him and relies on blocking him from behind. That rarely flies in he NBA, and he's not going to have a size advantage against SF's here either. I did like his passing ability and we can use that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was not impressed with Jackson's defense, he's got quick hands and he gambles for steals - with some success - but he's not like the PJ Tucker of a couple of years ago, bodying up close. Fairly good at slipping around screens but he doesn't have first rate footwork - he seems content to let his guy get a shoulder past him and relies on blocking him from behind. That rarely flies in he NBA, and he's not going to have a size advantage against SF's here either. I did like his passing ability and we can use that.

Agreed. I don't buy the hype on him at all and when you consider his rage issues, I just don't see us even giving him a close look. He's also going to lose a bit of the quickness advantage he gains by playing against mostly power forwards in college and then there's the 57% from the free throw line. I know he seems to be most everyone's favorite here but no thanks.

 

[sunsfan88]

If they do take a PG in the top 10, I'd expect it to be Fox and despite what I've said, I don't hate that idea. He's so similar to Eric, many of the same strengths and many of the same weaknesses with health being the big difference. I just don't think we are going to target someone with significant injury history (Dennis) nor will we target someone with well-publicized off the court problems (not that Josh is a PG).

In this day and age, going after a player that's already exhibited "rage" behavior with women, is perhaps even more risky than taking a guy whose game depends on athleticism and has already torn his ACL once. When that injury happens that young, early onset arthritis is almost a given in addition to typically having to re-visit that injury/surgery 5 or so years later.

I'm with you on Jackson and I actually said that early on as well.

I'm surprised that his off court issues aren't brought up more by the media and fans who debate drafting him. There are some serious question marks about this kid's character and imo the risk is not worth a top 5 pick.

It's funny when I think of Fox it's the exact opposite. Every interview he's done comes off with him looking very intelligent and seems like he's a got a great head on his shoulders. I like Fox and I won't mind if he's the pick. Right now he's not #1 choice at 4 because of his shooting but I wouldn't hate the pick in the least.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yeah, assuming Fultz isn't available, Tatum is our pick (if we take anybody) regardless who falls to us IMO. I'd feel better about it if we had a defensive stud at the 5, then we could probably get away with playing Jayson at the 4 where he will create positive mismatches for us.

Jayson would never play the 4 of us since we have invested two top 10 picks into two PFs in Chriss & Bender.