Jonathan Isaac

[mojorizen7]

Ya'll know how i feel about the Suns and their lazy, apathetic approach to becoming a quality defensive team...Isaac is intriguing but my biggest concern is his passive mentality and general lack of fire and aggressiveness.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think it's interesting they had another meeting/workout with him. I'd actually prefer him to Jackson. I know he's not as NBA ready at this point but I believe he has a higher upside than Jackson. He's kind of a combination of Jackson and Tatum, he's a strong defender but not great and he's also a good shooter. If he develops as most scouts predict though he should be the best SF coming out of the draft this year but he also has bust potential. Having Warren already at SF should allow us to gamble on a SF like him though.

 

[AsUdUdE]

According to Kristian Winfield of SBnation, Jonathan Issac will not be working out for any team outside the top 4... VERY interesting!

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/14/15800740/jonathan-isaac-nba-draft-workout-rumor-suns-celtics-magic

 

[Chaplin]

According to Kristian Winfield of SBnation, Jonathan Issac will not be working out for any team outside the top 4... VERY interesting!

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/14/15800740/jonathan-isaac-nba-draft-workout-rumor-suns-celtics-magic

He MET with the Suns twice, but only worked out for them once.

 

[Folster]

It would seem silly to give him a promise unless he was at least #2 or #3 on our board or we knew for sure who the teams ahead of us were picking.

 

[Mainstreet]

There may be some pre-draft trade agreements with teams already in place. It's one of the possibilities with players limiting the teams they work out for.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't understand the whole promise thing. Ostensibly you issue it to get a prospect to stop doing workouts, right? I would think this only has value if he doesn't do workouts for those drafting above you so he falls to you. I suppose it also works if he stops for those drafting behind you so they don't trade up to snag him before he gets to you.

But those just benefit the promissor. What's the motivation for the player to cut off such workouts? It seems his workouts can only help him go higher if your promise shows him his floor in the draft. I suppose he could "lose" the promise of he continues to workout, but the reality is, either (a) the promising team really likes you - enough to make you a promise - so even if you break their promise and workout for other teams, if you still fall to them they likely still draft you:"; or (b) such promises aren't contractual and you bet your ass if someone they like more falls to them they'll ignore the promise and bypass you to take the prospect they desire more.

I think the only way a promise makes sense to a player is if they actually affirmatively WANT to play for your team. You promise him and he doesn't workout for anyone else trying to ensure he ends up with your team.

What am I missing here?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't understand the whole promise thing. Ostensibly you issue it to get a prospect to stop doing workouts, right? I would think this only has value if he doesn't do workouts for those drafting above you so he falls to you. I suppose it also works if he stops for those drafting behind you so they don't trade up to snag him before he gets to you.

But those just benefit the promissor. What's the motivation for the player to cut off such workouts? It seems his workouts can only help him go higher if your promise shows him his floor in the draft. I suppose he could "lose" the promise of he continues to workout, but the reality is, either (a) the promising team really likes you - enough to make you a promise - so even if you break their promise and workout for other teams, if you still fall to them they likely still draft you:"; or (b) such promises aren't contractual and you bet your ass if someone they like more falls to them they'll ignore the promise and bypass you to take the prospect they desire more.

I think the only way a promise makes sense to a player is if they actually affirmatively WANT to play for your team. You promise him and he doesn't workout for anyone else trying to ensure he ends up with your team.

What am I missing here?

While I understand your point. In Isaac's case it wouldn't really hurt him as he just isn't working out for anyone outside of the top 4. That means that if the 4th team is the team giving him a promise than he can only move up by working out for the other 3 teams.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm not going to pretend I know the answer but there are essentially three parties involved, the team, the player and the agent. The only way this works is all three parties get what they want in an agreement. Perhaps the agents are busy making deals involving these early picks including possible involving trade-ups or trade downs in the draft. These agreements are verbal but I do not remember teams going back on deals except the supposed Amare for Stephen Curry trade.

I will say this, I have never heard of so many players having promises and shutting down workouts early in the draft.

 

[elindholm]

I don't understand the whole promise thing. Ostensibly you issue it to get a prospect to stop doing workouts, right? I would think this only has value if he doesn't do workouts for those drafting above you so he falls to you. I suppose it also works if he stops for those drafting behind you so they don't trade up to snag him before he gets to you.

...

What am I missing here?

I don't understand the promises either, but here's one possibility: Maybe it's a PR move to get the player in the right frame of mind to sing the praises of his new team the instant he's drafted. Sometimes you see a player get drafted by a team he wasn't expecting, and it can be embarrassing when he dons the cap with an expression of "Wait, I'm going to be playing for who again?" Get the guy thinking about your team in advance and he can drum up enthusiasm right off the bat.

 

[Errntknght]

My thought on many promises is that they are given to make sure a player doesn't decide to pull out of the draft, For Euro's it could be given to encourage them to enter the draft.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

According to Kristian Winfield of SBnation, Jonathan Issac will not be working out for any team outside the top 4... VERY interesting!

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/14/15800740/jonathan-isaac-nba-draft-workout-rumor-suns-celtics-magic

I'm reading that he may have gotten a promise from Orlando. Which would also line up with the not working out for anyone outside of the top 4 narrative as Orlando is #5 and he has already worked out for them.

 

[Sunburn]

I'm reading that he may have gotten a promise from Orlando. Which would also line up with the not working out for anyone outside of the top 4 narrative as Orlando is #5 and he has already worked out for them.

Orlando is #6. Sac is #5.

 

[Folster]

Orlando is #6. Sac is #5.

Still makes sense in that he probably doesn't want to go to Sacramento and rumors are that they want Fox.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't understand the whole promise thing. Ostensibly you issue it to get a prospect to stop doing workouts, right? I would think this only has value if he doesn't do workouts for those drafting above you so he falls to you. I suppose it also works if he stops for those drafting behind you so they don't trade up to snag him before he gets to you.

But those just benefit the promissor. What's the motivation for the player to cut off such workouts? It seems his workouts can only help him go higher if your promise shows him his floor in the draft. I suppose he could "lose" the promise of he continues to workout, but the reality is, either (a) the promising team really likes you - enough to make you a promise - so even if you break their promise and workout for other teams, if you still fall to them they likely still draft you:"; or (b) such promises aren't contractual and you bet your ass if someone they like more falls to them they'll ignore the promise and bypass you to take the prospect they desire more.

I think the only way a promise makes sense to a player is if they actually affirmatively WANT to play for your team. You promise him and he doesn't workout for anyone else trying to ensure he ends up with your team.

What am I missing here?

I don't know the answer to the rest of your questions but for this one, you're off here.

Apparently teams don't break promises because it can give them a very bad reputation among agents and the sort. For example, if a team gives a promise and a player stops doing workouts and that team drafts someone else, then next year when the team again tries to stop workouts by giving a player a promise, nobody will buy it because the agents have spread the word.

There was an article on hoppshype couple months ago about how the draft process works and stuff and they interviewed an anonymous NBA agent who answered a bunch of questions. The promise thing came up and they said teams don't break promises whatsoever once they give it out because it's too damaging for their reputation. The agent said there's a higher chance of the team acquiring another pick using players on the roster or future picks they have rather than passing on the player they promised to get someone else.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't know the answer to the rest of your questions but for this one, you're off here.

Apparently teams don't break promises because it can give them a very bad reputation among agents and the sort. For example, if a team gives a promise and a player stops doing workouts and that team drafts someone else, then next year when the team again tries to stop workouts by giving a player a promise, nobody will buy it because the agents have spread the word.

There was an article on hoppshype couple months ago about how the draft process works and stuff and they interviewed an anonymous NBA agent who answered a bunch of questions. The promise thing came up and they said teams don't break promises whatsoever once they give it out because it's too damaging for their reputation. The agent said there's a higher chance of the team acquiring another pick using players on the roster or future picks they have rather than passing on the player they promised to get someone else.

I wonder if it's worth the trouble to give a promise in the first place.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I wonder if it's worth the trouble to give a promise in the first place.

It sets a precedence for future dealing with that player. If you give them a promise before the draft and then live up to that they may be more likely to stick around when you promise them things in the future. For instance telling a player that you will add more talent in the off season to make the team better. It can simply be a good start to a hopefully good long term relationship. Also most people like to feel wanted and a team telling them before they are even done working out players that they will draft them if he is available is a great way to make them feel like they are truly wanted.

 

[sunsfan88]

I wonder if it's worth the trouble to give a promise in the first place.

The only benefit to giving a player a promise is to get that player to stop working out for other teams.

This is beneficial for the player since the player won't risk injury by having to do unnecessary workouts.

But yeah if I were the GM of a team, I wouldn't give promises unless it was for a generational prospect like Davis or Towns.

After a team gives a player a promise, the player can't workout for any more teams but the team can still continue hosting workouts with other players in case that player gets picked before them anyway.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know the answer to the rest of your questions but for this one, you're off here.

Apparently teams don't break promises because it can give them a very bad reputation among agents and the sort. For example, if a team gives a promise and a player stops doing workouts and that team drafts someone else, then next year when the team again tries to stop workouts by giving a player a promise, nobody will buy it because the agents have spread the word.

There was an article on hoppshype couple months ago about how the draft process works and stuff and they interviewed an anonymous NBA agent who answered a bunch of questions. The promise thing came up and they said teams don't break promises whatsoever once they give it out because it's too damaging for their reputation. The agent said there's a higher chance of the team acquiring another pick using players on the roster or future picks they have rather than passing on the player they promised to get someone else.

Interesting. Thx.

 

[Chaplin]

The only benefit to giving a player a promise is to get that player to stop working out for other teams.

This is beneficial for the player since the player won't risk injury by having to do unnecessary workouts.

But yeah if I were the GM of a team, I wouldn't give promises unless it was for a generational prospect like Davis or Towns.

After a team gives a player a promise, the player can't workout for any more teams but the team can still continue hosting workouts with other players in case that player gets picked before them anyway.

In the flipside, if a player does get injured in a workout, then maybe that player wasn't worth picking anyway.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the flipside, if a player does get injured in a workout, then maybe that player wasn't worth picking anyway.

I'm unsure I get this. Are you saying if someone gets injured they were destined to get injured?

 

[Chaplin]

I'm unsure I get this. Are you saying if someone gets injured they were destined to get injured?

No, I'm just saying that someone getting injured in a workout doesn't bode well for an injury-free career. Especially with the grind of an 82-game season with practices and potentially playoffs.

 

[pokerface]

Im starting to lean towards Isaac now. Jackson will be gone and we don't need Fox.

Isaac could be the biggest reward/bust in the draft...but the suns need to gamble and take chances to get a potential superstar.

 

[Mainstreet]

Im starting to lean towards Isaac now. Jackson will be gone and we don't need Fox.

Isaac could be the biggest reward/bust in the draft...but the suns need to gamble and take chances to get a potential superstar.

I think the Suns may trade-down if Fox falls to them for additional assets. Isaac would be a solid choice but a thought that lingers in the back of my mind, the Suns need a center.

How the Suns get both is a puzzle. I do not like the idea of waiting until #32 to draft a center.

 

[pokerface]

I think the Suns may trade-down if Fox falls to them for additional assets. Isaac would be a solid choice but a thought that lingers in the back of my mind, the Suns need a center.

How the Suns get both is a puzzle. I do not like the idea of waiting until #32 to draft a center.

If we get Isaac we're adding a big with a lot of potential. He may not be a center but there aren't "top tier" centers right now so he's the next best thing IMO.

The suns aren't going to solve everything this draft... maybe next draft after this will solidify things more.