Jordan Hicks

[Chris_Sanders]

Zach Allen has played 59% of the defensive snaps and he has a two total tackles over 2 games, no Qb Hurries or Knockdowns. Everyone is asking why Hicks is making tackles 5 yards downfield, it is because the person in front of him

 

[Chopper0080]

Zach Allen has played 59% of the defensive snaps and he has a two total tackles over 2 games, no Qb Hurries or Knockdowns. Everyone is asking why Hicks is making tackles 5 yards downfield, it is because the person in front of him

Agree that Zach Allen has been disappointing. I would like to see Fotu get more snaps at his expense. I like the rotation of Peters and Lawrence.

 

[QuebecCard]

So basically he needs jjwatt Chandler Jones and Corey Peters playing at their best
Isnt easier to play someone else, if u think a player can be adequate just if the upfront unit playing at their best, means the player is not any good

"So basically" you don't understand the critical working relationship between an MLB and D-lineman.

Check out the NFL Hall of Fame and name one MLB with a bust who had a busted D-line in front of him?

 

[juza76]

"So basically" you don't understand the critical working relationship between an MLB and D-lineman.

Check out the NFL Hall of Fame and name one MLB with a bust who had a busted D-line in front of him?

No but i know the critical working of a guy having two steps slower before making a significant play

 

[jbjarko]

No but i know the critical working of a guy having two steps slower before making a significant play

Point being he shouldn't have to make that play if the Dline does their job.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And I am no Hicks fan. When I rewatched the game he was cleaning up Allen being blown off the line.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

oh man I love this board. last year I was banging the drum all year for "Hicks is on the field because of his mind." I guess I'll keep banging that drum and happy to do it since I played middle linebacker in high school.

many dont understand that middle backer is no different than QB in terms of mental demands. Maybe even more demanding because at least the QB gets to decide when to audible. Middle backer always has to react to QB audible and has less time to organize his team, given the fact that QB audible comes first.

Agreed. As much as I wanted to Simmons on the field last year, and want to see Collins, they can’t play until they’re ready. Let’s look at Simmons . . . his play through two games has been very good. If that was the result of him not seeing the field early on last year and growing his snaps gradually as the year progressed, it was the right thing to do. If they’ve found the need to similarly with Collins that’s good by me.

Not to mention, if playing Collins requires Vance to shrink his packages I’ll side on playing the physically less capable player but giving the d coordinator his full arsenal. I believe Collins will get there at some point this season and the team will be the better for having had hicks play early.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If our DLine was performing as it should, Hicks would not be any sort of an issue.

Yes and no. Remember, for traditional 3-4 defenses the dline occupies blockers and allows the LBs to be the playmakers. If your LB is slow physically or slow to diagnose and react it might not matter what the dline does.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So basically he needs jjwatt Chandler Jones and Corey Peters playing at their best
Isnt easier to play someone else, if u think a player can be adequate just if the upfront unit playing at their best, means the player is not any good

You’re missing the cerebral part of the game that’s crucial for an ILB.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No I am saying that complaining about Hicks when Zach Allen was the real issue with the last game is short sighted.

To be fair they were both issues (as was scheme). You don’t typically get gashed like we did in the first half solely due to a single player.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And I am no Hicks fan. When I rewatched the game he was cleaning up Allen being blown off the line.

Allen was screamingly bad

 

[juza76]

You’re missing the cerebral part of the game that’s crucial for an ILB.

Ah, that part is overrated considering whom are the best ilb in the league
Daryl Washington was crazy good till he ruined his career, pure athleticism and instict
Just an example of a former Cardinals, but u can do a search and see the best ilb's and the traits they have
Its funny just victories makes people blind and forget

 

[QuebecCard]

To be fair they were both issues (as was scheme). You don’t typically get gashed like we did in the first half solely due to a single player.

Allen's problem, for the most part, seemed to be overcommitting to the left and opening the cutback lane.

 

[QuebecCard]

Ah, that part is overrated considering whom are the best ilb in the league
Daryl Washington was crazy good till he ruined his career, pure athleticism and instict
Just an example of a former Cardinals, but u can do a search and see the best ilb's and the traits they have
Its funny just victories makes people blind and forget

"Cerebral" in football doesn't mean you are a member of Mensa; it's about understanding and reacting to cues and clues.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Agreed. As much as I wanted to Simmons on the field last year, and want to see Collins, they can’t play until they’re ready. Let’s look at Simmons . . . his play through two games has been very good. If that was the result of him not seeing the field early on last year and growing his snaps gradually as the year progressed, it was the right thing to do. If they’ve found the need to similarly with Collins that’s good by me.

Not to mention, if playing Collins requires Vance to shrink his packages I’ll side on playing the physically less capable player but giving the d coordinator his full arsenal. I believe Collins will get there at some point this season and the team will be the better for having had hicks play early.

yep, these early games count just as much as the ones down the stretch. got to win every one you can

 

[BullheadCardFan]

"So basically" you don't understand the critical working relationship between an MLB and D-lineman.

Check out the NFL Hall of Fame and name one MLB with a bust who had a busted D-line in front of him?

Dick Butkus

 

[QuebecCard]

Dick Butkus

I'll need more than you pulling a name out of history as evidence.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"Cerebral" in football doesn't mean you are a member of Mensa; it's about understanding and reacting to cues and clues.

Exactly. Being able to read the defense and make the calls so the rest of the D knows where to line up and what their responsibilities, then diagnose and react. Washington was dynamic but he was no kuechly, or singletary, or urlacher, or bowman. Those guys has both physical and mental prowess.

 

[Jasper]

Zach Allen has played 59% of the defensive snaps and he has a two total tackles over 2 games, no Qb Hurries or Knockdowns. Everyone is asking why Hicks is making tackles 5 yards downfield, it is because the person in front of him

Over the past 2 games he just takes up roster space. No highlights or pressures even with 99 playing next to him. The Vikes just pushed him around and out of the way. Would have been better if we had a DT that was at least unmovable or could take up a double team.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I'll need more than you pulling a name out of history as evidence.

You said name one and I did

 

[Jasper]

Allen's problem, for the most part, seemed to be overcommitting to the left and opening the cutback lane.

He didn't over commit, he was moved and pushed around. At the very least just hold your ground and occupy space, fill up a hole, make the runner run around you or go to another gap.

 

[Stout]

You can understand the game perfectly but still be too slow by a few steps to be effective. That's Hicks. No, his DL didn't help him one bit against Minny, which may have helped paper over some of the cracks in his game, but make no mistake, those cracks are there and clearly visible.

 

[BritCard]

You can understand the game perfectly but still be too slow by a few steps to be effective. That's Hicks. No, his DL didn't help him one bit against Minny, which may have helped paper over some of the cracks in his game, but make no mistake, those cracks are there and clearly visible.

While I don't disagree I think it's fair to add that we only see the very thin surface of what is going on in a game. We often judge a player by the end result and don't understand what led to it.

Hicks (Like all Mike's) has a very complicated role. He has an assigned role to fill on every play, but also has to adjust quickly to compensate for errors that happen in front of him.

I think sometimes we expect linebackers to be everywhere filling every possible gap that opens up like some magic psychic superhero. But if Hicks job is to fill the A gap and the edge blows contain and the RB take the ball outside it's hardly Hicks fault he can only make the tackle 8 yards downfield.

Plus, how many times can Hicks watch Allen get blown up before he starts over compensating for the next Allen mistake at the expense of doing your own job?

Hicks was good at Philly, and immediately not good when here. Could that be because Philly had a very good interior D line and we don't?

I don't know. But I feel like the answer could be that it's not all on Hicks.

 

[BritCard]

While I don't disagree I think it's fair to add that we only see the very thin surface of what is going on in a game. We often judge a player by the end result and don't understand what led to it.

Hicks (Like all Mike's) has a very complicated role. He has an assigned role to fill on every play, but also has to adjust quickly to compensate for errors that happen in front of him.

I think sometimes we expect linebackers to be everywhere filling every possible gap that opens up like some magic psychic superhero. But if Hicks job is to fill the A gap and the edge blows contain and the RB take the ball outside it's hardly Hicks fault he can only make the tackle 8 yards downfield.

Plus, how many times can Hicks watch Allen get blown up before he starts over compensating for the next Allen mistake at the expense of doing your own job?

Hicks was good at Philly, and immediately not good when here. Could that be because Philly had a very good interior D line and we don't?

I don't know. But I feel like the answer could be that it's not all on Hicks.

I wondered if there was any correlation between D line performance and linebacker performance visible in in PFF grades (It's all there is, don't moan).

PFF's 3rd ranked LB is Troy Reeder of the Ram's. Hardly a superstar but I guess playing behind Aaron Donald helps.

Main one that stands out for me is Bengals linebacker Logan Wilson with a 79.6 grade (8th best) which correlated with B.J Hill, Josh Topou and DJ Reader being 4th, 9th and 11th ranked iDL respectively.

Demario Davis is the 6th ranked iLB for the Saints behind a notoriously good iDL.

There's obviously some correlation there. That's not to say that physical talent doesn't play a role, but it's much easier to show that talent behind a good iDL where you can focus on doing your job without having to worry about doing everyone else's.

 

[daves]

Daryl Washington was crazy good till he ruined his career, pure athleticism and instict

There literally is no such thing as football "instincts". An instinct, by definition, is an innate, unlearned behavior.

People who are said to have football "instincts" are in fact mentally processing things very quickly and subconsciously recognizing patterns, as a result of film study, mental preparation, and countless reps. This is exactly what Ouchie is referring to as "the cerebral part of the game."

...dave