Jordan Schultz Tweet: Suns now Frontrunner for Amar'e

BC867

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That's not Sarver's philosophy though. It's the coaches he brings in. Sarver is the scapegoat for many things, but not this. He doesn't know enough to actually enforce such a policy.
If it is the coaches Sarver brings in, doesn't that still put him in the hotseat?

Especially if the GM's he brings in put together the least balanced roster the Suns have ever had.

Whether it is the tone set at the top or what he allows, you can't absolve him of the responsibility. As with the CEO of any business.
 

sunsfan88

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But don't you think blaming defensive issues on Sarver is going a little bit overboard?
I don't mean to blame it all on him but offense is way more fun to watch than defense and Sarver knows this. Arizona isn't a basketball state in terms of pro sports, Arizona is all about football.

In order to attract fans to games, he's trying to make the team "fun" with all attention on offense and little on defense.

And its funny that people turned, 2-3 years ago anyone and everyone would agree with him, now I'm seen as an outcast for saying that about Sarver. I get that we've had success last year but how can you forget all about the rest of his 9 years that quick?
 

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I don't mean to blame it all on him but offense is way more fun to watch than defense and Sarver knows this. Arizona isn't a basketball state in terms of pro sports, Arizona is all about football.

In order to attract fans to games, he's trying to make the team "fun" with all attention on offense and little on defense.

And its funny that people turned, 2-3 years ago anyone and everyone would agree with him, now I'm seen as an outcast for saying that about Sarver. I get that we've had success last year but how can you forget all about the rest of his 9 years that quick?

There's a difference between him being asked, "Hey, we can bring in IT and run the heck out of the opposition!" and him saying, "OK, great!" and him straight up saying, "No, he plays defense but can't play offense so I won't pay for him." Seems pretty ridiculous.

He wants to make money, sure, but do you actually think Ryan McDonough is the kind of guy that would buy into that? Your hate runs deep, but that's a little far-fetched.
 

sunsfan88

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There's a difference between him being asked, "Hey, we can bring in IT and run the heck out of the opposition!" and him saying, "OK, great!" and him straight up saying, "No, he plays defense but can't play offense so I won't pay for him." Seems pretty ridiculous.

He wants to make money, sure, but do you actually think Ryan McDonough is the kind of guy that would buy into that? Your hate runs deep, but that's a little far-fetched.

I want them to prove me wrong. Trust me, nobody wants to me to be wrong on this more than me itself.

I want to see us value defense.
 

Errntknght

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We are still the 8th best offensive team in the league, offense is not our problem at all.

Our offensive numbers are almost the same as they were last year when we were also the 8th best offensive team.

Our problem is defense where we rank just 19th and rebounding. Dragic, Marcus, Green have been very bad defensively and Thomas slightly below average.

I'd be interested to know what rating system you're getting this from. I do agree that we are the same on offense this year as last but I have us rated 1% below average both years. Also both years our defense is 1.5% above average. Presently we have the 14 best record in the league which is just where those numbers would place us. The offensive and defensive ratings are computed the same way - for offense I plug in our stats and for defense I plug in our opponents stats against us. I do that for all teams to get the average, of course.
 

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I don't mean to blame it all on him but offense is way more fun to watch than defense and Sarver knows this. Arizona isn't a basketball state in terms of pro sports, Arizona is all about football.

In order to attract fans to games, he's trying to make the team "fun" with all attention on offense and little on defense.

And its funny that people turned, 2-3 years ago anyone and everyone would agree with him, now I'm seen as an outcast for saying that about Sarver. I get that we've had success last year but how can you forget all about the rest of his 9 years that quick?


It's funny how you blame Sarver and even bring up his past. I understand he hasn't been the ideal owner with his sideline buffoonery but he's spent a lot of money on this team and wants to put a winner on the court. During the Nash/Amare years the team was always over the cap right around the Luxury Tax line yet he was called "cheap" constantly for selling draft picks and also not overpaying Joe Johnson his first year as owner and before Johnson really showed consistent high level play. Cheapness aside though, after Nash's time was up he took a step back and put more people in charge of running the team because he learned from the mistakes he made. Not all the people he's signed to run the team have worked out but no one gets it right every time. McD has shown he's much more competent than Blanks. Regardless of that though, saying Sarver has never done anything, or allowed anything to be done, to help the team defensively is ignoring the past completely.

Wasn't part of the reason D'Antonio let go was because he wouldn't bring in a defensive coach? I believe it was Tom Thibodeau who was almost brought in to be sort of a defensive coordinator and lead assistant but D'Antonio refused. Once he did that they let him out of his deal to go to New York. Terry Porter was seen as a defensive coach who was brought in as his replacement, it didn't work out but it was still a deal that was made in order to change the culture and style of the team but the roster wasn't a good fit and Porter wasn't a very good coach. Outside of coaching though the year the team signed Raja Bell was to help defensively, he wasn't an offensive player. Right around the same time the team traded Q for KT, to help defensively. That's just what I can think of, I'm sure more was done over the years.

More recently he signed off on the Bledsoe trade, signed off on Tucker's extension, and was fine with the Alex Len pick. All 3 of those players are with the team now, prior to coming to Phoenix Bledsoe was viewed as a great defensive backup PG with a ton of potential. No one talked about his offensive game just that he was a quick shut down perimeter defender. Tucker's offensive game sucks but he's a hustle player who was the teams most consistent and best perimeter defender the first 2 years he was on the team, that's why he got his extension. Len was drafted based on his potential, which was to be legitimate rim protector and interior defender.

You can't look at the teams history under Sarver and say NOTHING has been done to help the team defensively because that's just garbage. You can hate Sarver for who he is or some of the other mistakes he's made but to say he's to blame for the Suns defensive this year or any year is a joke.
 
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AzStevenCal

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You can't look at the teams history under Sarver and say NOTHING has been done to help the team defensively because that's just garbage. You can hate Sarver for who he is or some of the other mistakes he's made but to say he's to blame for the Suns defensive this year or any year is a joke.

Nice post, agree with all of it.

Steve
 

BC867

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You can't look at the teams history under Sarver and say NOTHING has been done to help the team defensively because that's just garbage.
Doing something more than NOTHING on defense is hardly setting a standard for growth and success in the NBA. That is a play on words.

Are you really satisfied that he's done more than nothing? That ain't gonna cut it in the best professional basketball league in the world.
 

Hoop Head

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Doing something more than NOTHING on defense is hardly setting a standard for growth and success in the NBA. That is a play on words.

Are you really satisfied that he's done more than nothing? That ain't gonna cut it in the best professional basketball league in the world.

Now you're just nitpicking. Sarver isn't the GM or the coach, he signs the checks. He put basketball people in charge of the basketball decisions. I'm sure he still has his input and ultimately has the final say as owner but do you really think he's handcuffing either McD or Hornacek and forcing them to ignore defense? The whole time Hornacek has been coach he's talked about the sort of offense he wants to run with some mention of defense but it's usually about 80% talk about offensive system. Is that how the team practices or because that's what Sarver requires? I would be no. Will he fire him if he focuses more on defense? Should he be fired because they aren't a top defensive team right now? If you want to blame someone for the defensive shortcomings then blame the coaches and GM's of the team while Sarver has been owner. Right now 3 players out of the starting 5 are better defensively than offensively, Tucker, Len, and Bledsoe. Those 3 are also locked up with the team for the next couple of seasons. Is that all that will be done defensively during that time is wait for those 3 to develop more and carry the team? I highly doubt it. The team is in the 2nd year of a rebuild and the 3rd youngest team in the league. Maybe 3 or 4 of the players on the team this year are either in their prime or past it, Dragic, Tucker, Green, and Wright. 3 of those 4 are expiring at years end, the one who is a good defender is the only 1 on a long term deal. I'd say let the team grow together and develop. If they don't then blame Hornacek first, McD second, and Sarver last. It's the coaches job to develop players, the GM's job to give the coach good players to fit their system, it's the owners job to make sure the checks don't bounce.

I think I already covered things done previously for the defensively. Again I'd put Sarver last when it comes to handing out blame for the team being weak defensively. D'Antoni, Kerr, Blanks, and Babby were all GM's under Sarver. D'Antoni, Porter, and Gentry were all coaches under those GM's. All of those people are gone now, McD seems to be acquiring and retaining capable defenders. Bledsoe, Len, Tucker, Goodwin, Wright, Ennis, Bullock, Plumlee, Green, and Warren are players brought in by McD. Out of those players Green is the only one who is awful defensively. Wright is a capable defender but he was brought in for next to nothing and is only here for 1/2 of the season. If he doesn't work out then we didn't lose anything by trying to add veteran depth to the frontcourt. (2nd rounders in 2017 & 18 because the Minnesota pick will not be a 1st rounder, they got those picks as a throw in years ago anyways so it won't even cost the team their own 2nd rounders) The rest of the players are all really young and need to develop, time will tell ultimately but none of them are defensive liabilities. Only Bledsoe is a significant cost to the team and he's our best defender as well as one of the top 5 in the league at his position. He's only 25 and is still developing, right now he's pretty good on both ends but should only get better.

Should Sarver force them to do more or let the basketball people do their jobs? If he forces them to do anything he'll be blasted for not stepping back and letting the GM and/or coach do their jobs and if he continues to just sign checks then you're not happy because he's doing slightly more than nothing. It's a no-win situation.
 

Errntknght

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McD did not bring Tucker to the team but he did re-sign him, of course.

Its too bad that Sarver didn't insist on bringing Thibs in. D'Antoni knew all about having the FO force a lead assistant on you as that is exactly how he got the job. I don't know that Thibs would have taken the job but I was sure hoping it would happen.
 
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BC867

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You can hate Sarver for who he is or some of the other mistakes he's made but to say he's to blame for the Suns defensive this year or any year is a joke.
I don't "hate" Sarver. There is nothing personal about my sports opinions. I just don't like his performance since taking over.

And since when is the CEO of a company (or Managing General Partner in sports) not the person who sets the tone?

It is a sport. It is a form of entertainment. But, for it to last, it is a business.

And, just as with Jerry Colangelo, we're stuck with a leader who places the purity of the sport at the bottom of the list.

I can't root for the Suns without hoping that someday they'll become a strong team in the NBA, instead of going the other way.
 

Cheesebeef

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I don't "hate" Sarver. There is nothing personal about my sports opinions. I just don't like his performance since taking over.

And since when is the CEO of a company (or Managing General Partner in sports) not the person who sets the tone?

It is a sport. It is a form of entertainment. But, for it to last, it is a business.

And, just as with Jerry Colangelo, we're stuck with a leader who places the purity of the sport at the bottom of the list.

LOL... Colangelo is an ambassador for the game, respected by EVERYONE in the basketball community, put the US back on the map in it's rightful place as THE dominant power in the world... but places the purity of the sport at the bottom of the list. Just a freaking inane comment.

BC... I bet you were jumping up and down when JC did exactly what you wanted back in the day, chasing Centers simply because they were Cs, busting with high picks like William Bedford, trading for Hot Rod Williams and the like. The reality is that when you have the mindset that a C trumps all, you make INCREDIBLY stupid moves, just like those. Bottom line... he lost out TWICE to two of the greatest Centers of all time on TWO coin flips. I'm sure in your mind, he would have passed on Jabbar and the Admiral, but truth is, most teams get a chance at those kind of guys once in a lifetime... and we got boned TWICE in our lifetime. Even beyond that, he traded for Motumbo... the league over-ruled it. He tried to trade for Mourning when we still had Barkley and the deal fell apart. All the the guy DID was EVERYTHING he could, INCLUDING smartly getting around league rules to OVERPAY to try and win titles.

put the purity of the game at the bottom. get a clue dude.
 
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BC867

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LOL... Colangelo is an ambassador for the game, respected by EVERYONE in the basketball community, put the US back on the map in it's rightful place as THE dominant power in the world... but places the purity of the sport at the bottom of the list. Just a freaking inane comment ... get a clue dude.
As I've posted before, JC is a brilliant promoter and has played an important role in the growth of the Valley. He indeed has been an ambassador for the game, respected by everyone and active in world basketball as you pointed out.

My assessment was as GM and Suns president. The results have always been more style than substance. The history is no mystery. And his turning the team over to Robert Sarver kept the status quo. Now, roster imbalance is worse than ever.

I respect that you disagree with my perception as a long time Suns fan. Do you really think that anyone who disagrees with your opinion doesn't have "a clue"? I think you know better.
 

Covert Rain

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My assessment was as GM and Suns president. The results have always been more style than substance. The history is no mystery. And his turning the team over to Robert Sarver kept the status quo. Now, roster imbalance is worse than ever.

Wow...just wow. Saying Sarver is even the same league as JC is just ridiculous. You are talking about a guy that did much more than promote. You are talking a guy that helped the team recover from a major drug scandal. A guy that not only put the Suns on the map but helped him be an attractive franchise for some big name free agents. A guy that pulled off some huge trades.

You compare him to Sarver who in 10 years has done what? Since JC has completely left the franchise, the team has one how many division titles? How many major free agents have wanted to come here? How many big name trades has he pulled off?

JC didn't get it done in terms of a title but you are correct this history is clear and the last 10 years under Sarver don't even compare. He placed the purity of the sport at the bottom? I don't even know where to begin with that.
 
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slinslin

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I will be seriously disappointed if Amare doesn't come back and retires with the Suns.

Maybe he even has one great season left in him somehow. His per minute production is pretty good this season and lets say he would be better in our system.

I just do not want to see Amare on the Clippers, Mavericks, Spurs or Warriors, ugh.
 

Covert Rain

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I will be seriously disappointed if Amare doesn't come back and retires with the Suns.

Maybe he even has one great season left in him somehow. His per minute production is pretty good this season and lets say he would be better in our system.

I just do not want to see Amare on the Clippers, Mavericks, Spurs or Warriors, ugh.

Reported today he is looking for a title contender to get a shot at a ring. Doesn't sound like the Suns would be that team. Several reports having him ending up with the Mavs.

I think there is zero shot he ends up here if that is his motivation. If I was Amare I would do the same thing. End of his career...why not chase the ring?

There is no reason to comeback to Phoenix at this point.
 
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Absolute Zero

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So if we add Amare, does that help us make a play off run?

I don't think so.

Which is why I don't see Amare picking Phoenix. That and because I think he may feel dissed by Sarver the first time around.

And I am totally ok with Amare not coming back to Phoenix. He wouldn't make much of a difference and we would still have a tough time making the playoffs in the West.
 

BC867

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Wow...just wow. Saying Sarver is even the same league as JC is just ridiculous.
Where did I say that Sarver is in the same league as JC?

Boy, did you miss the point. I fault Jerry for choosing Sarver to turn the team over to.

But then, the reason why has become clear. Sarver has taken JC's obsession with small ball and even taken it to the next level.

Of course, you could say that Sarver is in the same league as JC -- the NBA. :)
 

Covert Rain

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Where did I say that Sarver is in the same league as JC?

Boy, did you miss the point. I fault Jerry for choosing Sarver to turn the team over to.

But then, the reason why has become clear. Sarver has taken JC's obsession with small ball and even taken it to the next level.

Of course, you could say that Sarver is in the same league as JC -- the NBA. :)

How do you fault the seller of the team? That makes no sense. There are very few successful bids that the NBA league will approve. You don't get to vet a buyer like you do someone you sell personal property to. Even if you could you couldn't possibly predict how that person will conduct business. That's ludicrous.

Oh...and JC wasn't obsessed with small ball either. By all accounts he let his coaches coach and his front office guys do their thing. He signed the checks but there are tons of examples where he let his coaches and front office do their thing.

Unlike Sarver who thought he knew better for a period of time...he let basketball guys run basketball. Yes, there was a period of him letting coaches experiment with smaller lineups.

Question...how many years under JC did the team field a more traditional lineup versus small ball?
 

95pro

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I think the Mavs have too much to lose if they try to fit Amare in. They still haven't integrated Rondo. Adding another piece that needs to score on that team seems like a bad idea. How did he pair with Chandler?
 

AZBALLER

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Just saying, Amare basically got kicked in the balls moving to NY. Literally as a kid(18yo) he moved to Phx and made his name here. He made it to the Western Conference Finals on a team nobody expected to make it there. He was on a team here that was better than the champion, but didn't get a chance to prove it, because David Stern took that chance away. Not even getting into the whole referee gambling scandal. Home is home, and maybe Amare wants to finish unfinished business here. Not to mention our world renowned training staff and his injury history...
 

Absolute Zero

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Just saying, Amare basically got kicked in the balls moving to NY. Literally as a kid(18yo) he moved to Phx and made his name here. He made it to the Western Conference Finals on a team nobody expected to make it there. He was on a team here that was better than the champion, but didn't get a chance to prove it, because David Stern took that chance away. Not even getting into the whole referee gambling scandal. Home is home, and maybe Amare wants to finish unfinished business here. Not to mention our world renowned training staff and his injury history...

I know what you are saying, but in light of how he cashed in by going to NY, I think "kicked in the balls" may not be the best analogy.
 

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Why tf would he come back to Phoenix? Our team sucks and we're going no where fast. Which is why I'm starting to get really bummed with RMcD - had we not gone and got a 'lopsided' roster we're possibly fighting for the fifth seed. If we're possibly fighting for the fifth seed we become a genuine option for amare. As we're not, we aren't, so amare goes elsewhere. Bravo.


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