Josh on Johnson

[Redheart]

Originally posted by MaoTosiFanClub
Kerouac, I thought Bryant had more strength and athleticism. The only thing Bryant has more of than Pace is in the beer belly department. Pace was shooting up everyone's boards prior to draft day, not just ours. Was he taken too fast? Yes, but he would not have been there for us in the third or fourth round like all you pessismists love to say. Pace's problem is that he doesn't seem to have any pass rush moves. Good coaching will help that.

You mean Joe didn't teach him his moves? That was mean of Joe.

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I'm not calling anyone a bust. I think that this is a make-or-break season for Bryant.

Bryant has more upside because I think that phycially he has more potential than Pace. Mentally, he has much farther to go.

If both players had the same fire and effort, who would be better? Who was better in college? Who has better measureables relative to their position? I think the answer to all three questions is Bryant. There's a reason that Bryant was picked high. Perhaps a coaching staff with a clue will be able to develop both players to their full potential.

I think that the long and short of it is that the ceiling on Bryant's production is much higher.

kerouac9,

Like you, I agree that this is Bryant's make or break year. Also, as I've just commented on to vikesfan on another thread where he said that Wendall might just end up working for Microsoft next year, you don't give up on #12 overall picks until their contracts expire.

If Wendall turns out to be a Tom Burke, Andre Wadsworth or Jonny Rutledge type then I'll join the "he was a bust" crowd, but personally, I think he's just a Dennis Green season away from being VERY good

 

[Duckjake]

Originally posted by spanky1
kerouac9,

Like you, I agree that this is Bryant's make or break year. Also, as I've just commented on to vikesfan on another thread where he said that Wendall might just end up working for Microsoft next year, you don't give up on #12 overall picks until their contracts expire.

If Wendall turns out to be a Tom Burke, Andre Wadsworth or Jonny Rutledge type then I'll join the "he was a bust" crowd, but personally, I think he's just a Dennis Green season away from being VERY good

The problem with this constant "he'll get better with more experience" defense of Cardinal players is that I can think of only 3 players, taken in the first 3 rounds since Tobin was hired, RThompson, David Boston, and Dennis Johnson, who have improved significantly over their first year performance while playing for the Cards. And only Boston eventually had a season that put him in the upper echelon of NFL players.

That is 3 out of 28. A terrible ratio.

Also telling is, before the Q, when was the last time a Cardinal draft choice came in and played far better than expected? Mark Smith(7) in 1997????

Fortunately the last two drafts look much more promising. Especially the 2 and 3rd round picks. With the Cardinals signing their first HC with a winning record in the NFL in over 20 years and seeming changes in the front office maybe this sad trend will end.

 

[JeffGollin]

Pace was not projected to start right off this year and the injury to KVB did require him to step in as an every down player...I am no annointing anyone a pro bowler here, but hell it was a rookie season
OK. Here's the deal. When Pace proves he's as good as you say he is, then he will be as good as you say he is.

And until he proves he's good as you say he is, he isn't as good as you say he is.

New motto for 2004 - "Put it on the field!"

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Pace was not projected to start right off this year and the injury to KVB did require him to step in as an every down player...I am no annointing anyone a pro bowler here, but hell it was a rookie season
OK. Here's the deal. When Pace proves he's as good as you say he is, then he will be as good as you say he is.

And until he proves he's good as you say he is, he isn't as good as you say he is.

New motto for 2004 - "Put it on the field!"

Who is even saying he is 'that good'. I think what most are saying is that it was his rookie season for Christ's sake, give the kid a break!

Apparently some of you people think this team is coming off back-to-back superbowl wins or something. This team doesnt have the luxury of being at the top and cutting guys who dont immediatly produce pro-bowl type numbers.....They have to actually develop players!

 

[CaptTurbo]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
And I will certainly be expecting much more out of Pace in year 2, and will be calling for his head if he doesnt produce either!

EDIT: Measurables:

Bryant
340-pound bench press

Pace
450-pound bench press

I dont know who here hits the weights a lot like I used to but this is a HUGE difference. I mean its like the difference between Jon Smith on my local high school team and Igor the wieght lifting stud. Now 350 is no small feat but comapred to 450 wow. Pace would kill bryant if they tangled.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by spanky1
kerouac9,

Like you, I agree that this is Bryant's make or break year. Also, as I've just commented on to vikesfan on another thread where he said that Wendall might just end up working for Microsoft next year, you don't give up on #12 overall picks until their contracts expire.

If Wendall turns out to be a Tom Burke, Andre Wadsworth or Jonny Rutledge type then I'll join the "he was a bust" crowd, but personally, I think he's just a Dennis Green season away from being VERY good

I agree...and it may not matter one bit he was a 12th overall pick. If he comes in lackluster and plays the way he has, he is going to be cut and won't see the end of his contract.

I disagree on calling Wadsworth a bust without defining the type of bust he is (he is NOT comparable to Burke or Rutledge)...but that issue has been beaten senseless.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by swd1974
I dont know who here hits the weights a lot like I used to but this is a HUGE difference. I mean its like the difference between Jon Smith on my local high school team and Igor the wieght lifting stud. Now 350 is no small feat but comapred to 450 wow. Pace would kill bryant if they tangled.

Yeah I was kinda shocked on that too. 450 is a huge amount.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Yeah I was kinda shocked on that too. 450 is a huge amount.

Yeah. That's for real. If he ever asks me who's killing him on this message board, I'm telling him it's LV.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Yeah. That's for real. If he ever asks me who's killing him on this message board, I'm telling him it's LV.

Nice try. Trust me, I have all the negative posts stored away for him. Dont be suprised one day if you get a knock on the door (a la Jay and Silent Bob) and I say:

"K9, Meet Mr. Pace!"

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Yeah I was kinda shocked on that too. 450 is a huge amount.

But looking at Pace and Bryant, the difference isn't so shocking to me. Pace looks like he is just flat out stronger and could fling Bryant around. JMHO.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Nice try. Trust me, I have all the negative posts stored away for him. Dont be suprised one day if you get a knock on the door (a la Jay and Silent Bob) and I say:

"K9, Meet Mr. Pace!"

Pace: 'Do you post on Arizonasportsfans as...' *checks list* 'Stout?'

Stout: Yeah, why?

Pace: 'Cause there ain't any tackle blocking for you!' *SLAM!*

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Stout
Pace: 'Do you post on Arizonasportsfans as...' *checks list* 'Stout?'

Stout: Yeah, why?

Pace: 'Cause there ain't any tackle blocking for you!' *SLAM!*

As much as I would hate to see ANYONE get hurt , the headlines in the paper might be worth it.!!!