Just looking to pile on...

[Yuma]

I think most of you misunderstood what my point was.

I don't like Sarver, that much is certain (I actually dislike Kerr a lot more). However, people are treating the Colangelo's like everything they touched was gold, and that is not true. As far as providing a fun team to watch, well, the Colangelo's did that for many years. For 3 or 4 of Sarver's 5, he did the same thing.

You guys do have a very solid point in the "basketball respect" thing. Sarver it appears has none of that, although even a blind man can see that Steve Kerr has some respect around the league. Probably because of his television work before he was a GM. But his reputation is definitely taking a hit.

The problem here is this 40 year wait, and what looks like to be several more years of waiting for that elusive championship. The young kids on this board don't really understand, but guys like Errntknight and BC certainly can feel the weight of such a long time, fun years or no, without a title.

But memory is extremely short-term when it comes to sports. I'm very proud of a team that was in what many consider to be the greatest game in the history of the NBA, even though we lost and even though it was 30 years ago. But nobody younger than 25 cares or even knows that it even happened.

Oh well. I guess I'm just tired of getting on this board and seeing every single post be so extremely negative all the time, whether I agree with the sentiment or not. Sorry guys.

Hey, I agree. I don't want this board to be negative all the time either. So far though, I am having a hard time finding positives. And I am one of the VERY few who thinks Lopez CAN become a good center. I'm just not seeing this thing coming together. We do have a lot of young guys, so maybe it could be fun to watch guys develop. However, I am not sold on Gentry, yet. Not sure he can develop our guys. This is the most unsure of the Suns I have ever been. I guess my mistrust is I don't see a system like San Antonio, or LA, or even Boston to some extent. I really think the team starts in the front offices. It's hard to build a team when the front office guys seem to be behind the other front offices in the league. That's why teams like the Clippers never improve despite all the top first round picks. I think that's why we just can't crack into the elite teams.

I know the Colangelos weren't Midases, but thay always kept us in the playoff hunt. I see us slipping out of the top 8 in the Western Conference, and I don't see anything getting us back into the top eight this season. I guess I am spoiled by how we always seemingly were in the playoffs with the Colangelos. It's more the trend of where the team seems to be heading for me.

I do remember our playing Boston. I also remember the Suns leaving Paxson open, and coming this close (fingers almost touching together) against one of the best teams in NBA history! Those games were part of a different Suns management. I am praying this one grows into that kind of management, and hopefully better!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

LOL - These are the same fans calling for D'Antonis head two years ago.

Who are these fans?

 

[HooverDam]

LOL - These are the same fans calling for D'Antonis head two years ago.

Um, no we're not, but OK.

Its always very obnoxious when people say stuff like that, as if there was some sort of 100% consensus that D'Antoni had to go. There were lots of people (myself included) who wanted D'Antoni to stay and if anyone were to go it should've been Kerr.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Lets just say at the time I was adamant about wanting D'Antoni to stay and I don't remember there being all that much support. I am not one of those guys who is going to pull out the old posts so I guess I'll just take your word for it.

I guess its pretty fitting that ASU fans don't measure success by championships though

 

[Covert Rain]

I think (as Ive stated before) the whole being an offensive team versus a defensive team in hoops is VASTLY over rated. As TucsonDevil was getting at, in hoops because of how few players are on the court, the team with the best players almost always win. Get Duncan, Shaq, Jordan or Kobe and you win titles in the NBA. Get Amare and you have tons of fun but probably fall short. Most any 'style' can win if you have the players to play that style and your players are the best.

Duncan, Shaq, Jordan and Kobe all have played good defense in their teams runs to a title. The deeper you get into the playoffs the more defense becomes a necessity. The Suns figured that out over the years that despite being able to score 120 points, they could not get stops when the needed them. The last offensive power house that I can think of to win a title was the Showtime Lakers and even they played defense.

 

[HooverDam]

^The Suns of the last few years didn't have the personnel to be a great defensive team. You can blame D'Antoni the GM, or Bryan Colangelo or Steve Kerr for that but something as silly and cosmetic as a coaching change wasn't going to turn the Suns into a defensive power house (ask Terry Porter).

Now maybe if the Suns could've somehow had Kurt Thomas, Joe Johnson, Raja Bell and Shawn Marion all on the team at the same time they could've been a better than average defensive team and maybe would've gone all the way. I still contend the Suns won it all the year of the suspensions, but we'll never really know.

This idea that you can change coaches or styles and all of a sudden your players transform into something completely different as if they were Autobots never quite made any sense to me.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Chaplin, to your point I will try and be more positive.

I'm positive that you and I can look at a picture and see different shapes.
I'm positive that you and I can drink water and describe the taste differently.
I'm positive that you and I can watch the same Suns franchise over the last 30 years and come away with different feelings/points of view.

I did call for D'Antoni's head, but not because his style wasn't fun. I agreed with the Shaq trade at the time, due to the current position of the Suns; and I agreed with the Charles Barkley trade in '92.

Just because I have had heart broken several times by the Suns, doesn't mean I have stopped loving them nor does it mean that I haven't had an enjoyable ride. I have loved being a fan, especially in the 80s. I knew we could never beat Magic/Kareem/Worthy, but when they finally sent Pat Riley packing in 1990, I felt like we had just reached a plateau that was previously unattainable. We have remained on that plateau ever since; the level of great sports franchises, just not yet elite. The Spurs were on that same plateau with us throughout the 1990s, and then finally won it all. My point of frustration is this - we can at anytime fall of this level (we nearly did it after the Barkley trade - but JC immediately traded for Jason Kidd, a top contender-level talent).

I don't believe Sarver has the same commitment to this level. Does he want to win? Of course, everyone wants to win. But are you willing to sacrifice to win? That is the more important question.

 

[elindholm]

LOL - These are the same fans calling for D'Antonis head two years ago.

I can't remember whether I was calling for D'Antoni's head, but I did call him out for underachieving. And he did. Whether a coach can win 40, 50, or 60 games depends on the talent on the roster. No coach in the world is going to make the present Suns into an elite team. But D'Antoni had an elite team, and rather than get them in the best shape he could for a championship run, he encouraged bad habits in the name of showmanship and to advance his personal agenda.

The problem with the D'Antoni Suns isn't that they didn't win a title, but that they could have won a title and didn't.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Lets just say at the time I was adamant about wanting D'Antoni to stay and I don't remember there being all that much support. I am not one of those guys who is going to pull out the old posts so I guess I'll just take your word for it.

I guess its pretty fitting that ASU fans don't measure success by championships though

ASU RULZ, RATS DROOL!!!!!

 

[buttsR4rebounding]

Successful smaller market franchises have to work within a model that regularly keeps them under the luxury tax. This requires 5 things:

1. 2 or 3 star level players signed to less than max contracts. If you are unfortunate enough to have a star player that equates respect w/ money this is difficult to do.
2. Fill the rest of your roster w/ role players w/ contracts no longer than 3 years. This gives you flexibility and doesn't kill you if one doesn't perform as expected.
4. Use draft choices wisely. Develop players overseas. Take advantage of the rookie salary scale to lock in quality players at low prices. If you are regularly under the luxury tax cap you don't need to sell these critical parts to save money in the short term and then they save you money in the long term.
5. Don't take money out of the team. Save it for a rainy day. The reason the Spurs, for example, are able to make this short term foray into major luxury tax spending is that the owners have never taken money out of the team since they bought it in 1994. They are able to make basketball decisions instead of financial ones for a short term opportunity.

Some of this requires luck, unfortunately. But, to a degree a solid, stable management team will create some of their own luck.

 

[BC867]

Successful smaller market franchises have to work within a model that regularly keeps them under the luxury tax. This requires 5 things:

1. 2 or 3 star level players signed to less than max contracts. If you are unfortunate enough to have a star player that equates respect w/ money this is difficult to do.
2. Fill the rest of your roster w/ role players w/ contracts no longer than 3 years. This gives you flexibility and doesn't kill you if one doesn't perform as expected.
4. Use draft choices wisely. Develop players overseas. Take advantage of the rookie salary scale to lock in quality players at low prices. If you are regularly under the luxury tax cap you don't need to sell these critical parts to save money in the short term and then they save you money in the long term.
5. Don't take money out of the team. Save it for a rainy day. The reason the Spurs, for example, are able to make this short term foray into major luxury tax spending is that the owners have never taken money out of the team since they bought it in 1994. They are able to make basketball decisions instead of financial ones for a short term opportunity.

Some of this requires luck, unfortunately. But, to a degree a solid, stable management team will create some of their own luck.

That's a good analysis. But I'm curious. What is #3?

 

[Mainstreet]

That's a good analysis. But I'm curious. What is #3?

I agree about the analysis. Maybe #3 is classified or cannot be uttered in public. I know a lot of my thoughts about the Suns FO have to be filtered.

 

[TucsonDevil]

That's a good analysis. But I'm curious. What is #3?

3. Develop a great relationship with the NBA commissioner. Always provide the NBA commissioner and any other league official with the best drinks. provide him with the very best, clean prostitutes, and be willing to shave points when asked to - regardless of situation. NEVER criticize or question any league policy or procedure.

 

[BC867]

3. Develop a great relationship with the NBA commissioner. Always provide the NBA commissioner and any other league official with the best drinks. provide him with the very best, clean prostitutes, and be willing to shave points when asked to - regardless of situation. NEVER criticize or question any league policy or procedure.

Yup, that pretty much fits Mainstreet's definition (above).

 

[boisesuns]

3. Develop a great relationship with the NBA commissioner. Always provide the NBA commissioner and any other league official with the best drinks. provide him with the very best, clean prostitutes, and be willing to shave points when asked to - regardless of situation. NEVER criticize or question any league policy or procedure.

3A: You must be able to bring in ratings if you make it to the finals, or you won't be allowed to make it. We appreciate your exciting basketball, but not your tv rating potential.

 

[buttsR4rebounding]

That's a good analysis. But I'm curious. What is #3?

Sorry about that. #3 was to have stable management. Have a plan for a team and work it over time. I think, for example, Kerr was correct in his desire to change the character of the team, but you can't do that with a team that was built for something else. You need to start accumulating players that fit you mold. In the case of the Suns IMO the only way to do that was to trade Nash. He had high value and there is no way to have a defensive minded team with him as the head. That would be like the Spurs trying to make Duncan a fast break finisher. It is just not going to happen. Don't have a coach try to implement a radically different style of play before enough to of the parts have changed.

 

[BC867]

Don't have a coach try to implement a radically different style of play before enough to of the parts have changed.

Just as in business. Set a plan. Staff it consistently, coordinating all aspects.

Other than minor adjustments, stick with it. Allow an identity to be established.

All part of the big picture.

Sarver and Kerr are evidently not the executives to implement it.

 

[KatySpursFan]

3A: You must be able to bring in ratings if you make it to the finals, or you won't be allowed to make it. We appreciate your exciting basketball, but not your tv rating potential.

See "Spurs, San Antonio"

 

[Bufalay]

See "Spurs, San Antonio"

I think you mean San Antonio Spurs.

 

[CaptainInsano]

See "Spurs, San Antonio"

We will see, the last finals the spurs were in the ratings tanked and they haven't been back in the finals since then, so if anything if they don't end up making it again the next 2-3 years that would sort of prove the point you are trying to refute. Though the question is if ginobili was healthy would you have beat the lakers that lost to the celtics that year and thus got back into the finals? Because then your point would be true. Too bad so sad for you since currently the finals ratings point stands as true, especially since the cavs who were part of that tanking ratings finals missed making it to the finals again also!

 

[mojorizen7]

For the S.A. Sterns, it's really a question of whether or not they've still got the nude photos of Mr. David Stern locked away in the vault. Rumor has it that they were recovered by Stern's black ops agents sometime last year.....