Just Talked to MJ and Jody

[Vermont Maverick]

Good post, Mitch. Well thought out. Unfortunately I see the team side on this one. I refer back to your thread entitled "What would the Patriots do?" The answer is: The same thing we just did.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Good post, Mitch. Well thought out. Unfortunately I see the team side on this one. I refer back to your thread entitled "What would the Patriots do?" The answer is: The same thing we just did.

+1

 

[ARZCardinals]

DD on tape the past 2 years was getting pancaked by good guards. The tape of Iupatu vs DD was domination. Iupati owned him. DD is a leader and Cardinals awesomeness, but he's 33 coming off acl. You can't pay him 9 mill no way.

My guess is he tests the market and comes back to AZ on a 1 year deal.

 

[Mitch]

Like MB said during the Fitz negotiations: "It takes two."

I think that the Fitz deal likely contributed to Dock's frustration and what he must have felt was a low-ball offer from the Cardinals.

Sure, their situations are different and Dock's is complicated by his ACL injury. But, it's too bad that SK and Drew Rosenhaus couldn't find a middle ground because as I said in other posts Dockett is one of the very few rare Cardinals who has a beast mode switch.

When you think about it---what remaining Cardinals have a beast mode switch?

I would define it as the ability to kick into an extra gear wherein the player becomes an imposing physical presence, one capable of taking over a game or dominating a side of the ball.

Offense:

Fitzgerald---credit Todd Haley for bringing out the beast mode in Fitz. Fitz still has it and it shows up every now and then.

Veldheer---in the passing game, yes. Running game? Not so much yet.

Fells---this is too early to call, but Fells showed flashes of it down the stretch this year, as he started blocking with ferocity and proved to be a tough TE to tackle after the catch as he refused to go down on first contact.

Defense:

Campbell---there are stretches where he dominates.

Rucker---man, he stepped up big-time this year and took over in stretches.

Foote---until his body wore down, Foote was showing supreme toughness filling gaps and delivering sure, tough tackles.

Bucannon---as with Fells it may be a little early to say for sure, but Bucannon is a big time hit waiting to happen. He relishes and thrives in the physical aspects of playing hard-nosed defense.

Mathieu---wasn't himself this past year but he showed as a rookie that, despite his size, he can excel at the physical aspects of the game.

Special Teams:

Bethel---tough as nails. Big time performer in STs.

Now---when one looks at the Beast Mode Type A players on the other NFL West Teams---

Seahawks:

Lynch
Okung
Unger
Bennett
Avril
Wagner
Chancellor
Thomas
Sherman
Lane

* I would add Wilson to this in that as with Tyrann Mathieu, when he gets into a zone he dominates the game.

49ers:

Gore
Bruce Miller
Staley
Iupati
Boone
Anthony Davis
Boldin
Justin Smith
Willis
Bowman
Bethea
Reid

* Borland---relishes in the physical aspects despite his size. That kid is a keeper.

Rams:

Robinson
J. Long
Cook
Brockers
C. Long
Quinn
Donald
Laurinaitis
Ogletree
McDonald

* Tre Mason---was very impressed with the physical aspects of his play---too early to say but this guy, for his size, does not go down on first contact too often. Zach Stacy too.

The Cardinals are not as physical as the other teams in the NFC West. Thus, it hurts to lose a guy like Dockett, who not only plays a physical, tough brand of football, but motivates others to. As Calais Campbell said, "I am going to miss chasing QBs with this guy."

 

[kerouac9]

I get that Dockett has been good but how many new contracts has he gotten and did he really think he'd get that last years' salary? That was strictly a salary cap thing and he knew it when he signed.

It sucks but it's a business

This sounds like like you think Dockett wouldn't budge off that $9M number. You can't actually think that, right?

 

[Hollywood]

My guess is he tests the market and comes back to AZ on a 1 year deal.

+1. This us all just part of the negotiations to see what his value actually is.

 

[GuernseyCard]

DD failed physical, according to reports.

 

[speedy]

Your kidding right.

Tillman put it best in a 2000 or 01 post-game interview. You have the guys who try and yell, rah rah, be super motivated Johnny-on-the-spot say all the right things when the cameras on (or the boss is around) "leaders," and then you have the leader men just follow into projects/battle/put it all out there for. Dockett was the prior. This is evidenced in the report from MJ about guys rolling their eyes at him. You always knew it was a matter of time before he did something stupid, off color, or over the top that would propel himself into the spot light; Darnell was always consistent in this category, but not so much on the field. He had many great games for us over the years, but to suggest his "leadership" will be missed is a stretch.

He was good at leading the fans and their attention to his antics. Period.

 

[joeshmo]

Not the same thing dude. Dockett isn't anywhere close to the leader Q was. Totally different people IMO.

Don't know about the leader thing, but I agree Q and Docket are not even close to comparable. Q was 28 when be left not 34 like Dockett.

 

[BW52]

The point I tried to make was that I remembered very clearly watching feed from BA's very first practice two years ago and I found it curious that the player he leaned on and turned to for leadership right from the beginning was Darnell Dockett: "Break em down, Dock," BA said.

At the time I felt that it was interesting that BA didn't say, "Break em down Fitz." Or, "Break em down Carson."

What I have been trying to do is understand how Dockett must feel right now. He totally sucked it up for the team this year. Most guys when they tear an ACL disappear into the rehab cocoon. See 2014 offensive captain, Carson Palmer. See DE John Abraham.

We know how passionate Dockett is about going back to Florida. Dockett stayed the whole time in AZ and rallied his Birdgang through every contest. He took all the flights and logged all the miles. He was there---in the moment---giving all he could to his teammates.

Now---don't get me wrong---even Dock himself had to know even when he signed his 5 year deal that the odds of realizing the $9.6M in the last year of his deal were very slim.

However, clearly in light of Dock's tweets last week, he is not happy with what the Cardinals have offered in the restructure.

What compounds Dock's situation is the timing of these negotiations in that the Cardinals have recently worked out the Larry Fitzgerald situation---wherein Fitz, at his age, is still making top money from the Cardinals.

Sure---Fitz has earned a little more money---not that he really needs it---but when people talk about Fitz's contract they talk about the value of Fitz's leadership.

But---what I beg to ask and---this is what I asked MJ and Jody---what about Dock's leadership? Does he deserve a little added compensation for that?

As the reality of this situation is settling in---man, my own vision of what it going to feel like if the Arizona Cardinals ever hoist the Lombardi---that vision has always included Darnell Dockett, whom I think is one of the rare players who helped turn this hapless franchise around. And if anyone ever asked me---I think Dockett should be a slam dunk for the Cardinals' Ring of Honor. 1 All-Pro season, 3 Pro Bowls, 4-2 in the playoffs with him playing, 3 sacks in the Super Bowl.

Difference is that Fitzgerald is productive on the field still.DD was not the same player no matter how anyone tries to sugarcoat it.He did take on another role and tried hard but was he a real difference maker? No he wasn`t.He was a team guy who declined due to time and injury.Apparently he refuses to see that (like most athletes ) and take lot less money for being a lot less of a factor ON THE FIELD.I do hope he decides eventually a reduced role in AZ on a contender is better than playing more for a desperate team who needs a name guy.

 

[BW52]

Good post, Mitch. Well thought out. Unfortunately I see the team side on this one. I refer back to your thread entitled "What would the Patriots do?" The answer is: The same thing we just did.

+2

 

[82CardsGrad]

I just don't get why they won't pay Williams and Docket both when one considers the generosity they applied to Fitz even with the new contract. I cannot praise Keim at the moment for this after how they honored Fitz. Fitz is still a player but not his former self... does not Dockett and especially Williams deserve this if Fitz gets the loyalty and they are less of a cap burden combined than Larry

Don't forget that the Cards would've taken a massive cap hit had they not brought back Fitz. So, yea - they gave Fitz a sweet deal and certainly that was due in large part to who Fitz is, but make no mistake, the Cards had a large financial incentive to bring back Fitz as well...

Additionally, the Cards actually needed Fitz far more than they need DD... With Floyd stinking it up last year, the Cards would've been left without a #1 WR threat had Fitz left.
The Cards made the playoffs this past season without DD. Dockett is a want, not a need...

 

[DoTheDew]

I still think there's a good chance DD comes back when the dust settles. I don't think he's come to terms with his market value just yet. A 34 year old DT coming off an ACL injury isn't going to get much. I doubt most teams offer him much more than we offered Tommy Kelly last year.

 

[Russ Smith]

This sounds like like you think Dockett wouldn't budge off that $9M number. You can't actually think that, right?

No but I think bringing up loyalty was his way of saying he thinks they should have overpaid him to reward him for longevity etc.

It's a business, he's coming off a major injury, and while he's a good player it's not like losing him decimated the defense. He had very little leverage and he's been in the league long enough to know that.

 

[cardpa]

No but I think bringing up loyalty was his way of saying he thinks they should have overpaid him to reward him for longevity etc.

It's a business, he's coming off a major injury, and while he's a good player it's not like losing him decimated the defense. He had very little leverage and he's been in the league long enough to know that.

I agree Russ, DD isn't stupid and I feel he knew rallying around the loyalty aspect would bring on tremendous fan support to his side. He was good at playing the emotion card to steer the fans to his side. Like Dansby or not at least he was honest and said he goes where the money is. I think in DD's case the money was and is still the primary motivator however he didn't want to come off as Dansby like so he played a very nice loyalty card hoping to pressure the team into softening their position.

And as someone else mentioned this was very Patriot like in releasing DD. Get into as many Super Bowls as they have and fans won't care about releasing fan favorites as much.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Don't forget that the Cards would've taken a massive cap hit had they not brought back Fitz. So, yea - they gave Fitz a sweet deal and certainly that was due in large part to who Fitz is, but make no mistake, the Cards had a large financial incentive to bring back Fitz as well...

This is the main point with Fitz. Couldn't just let him walk with the ramifications it would of had.

 

[SweetD]

I think DD's situation was most like Adub. An aging player that is a big part of the franchise, but limited on his role as a player. I hope he makes his way back to the Cards, but I also hoped Adub would be back too.

Q was still productive and was a cap move to allow Fitz to be the man.

The team moves on!