Justin Upton and C Johnson traded to Atlanta for Prado, Delgado, prospects

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Bayless2Budinger

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And the small fact that Upton has actually realized his a part of his potential.

And that Delgado has #2 starter potential while Upton has MVP potential. And the fact that Upton is a everyday player which when compared to a pitcher with all other things being even, is more valuable.
 

outcent13

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Agree to disagree

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Like I said Ive always liked Upton and am disappointed to see him go. But the fact remains that financially this team just can not spend that kind of money on partially realized potential.
 
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I doubt they have any intention of resigning Prado as Im sure they expect Davidson to be ready by midseason. And a savings of almost $6 mil on a mid market team is a big deal no matter how you cut it.

Kevin Towers... is that you? They haven't cut your cable line yet?
Prado is a decent player but not going to blow you away. Gambo seems to think that they will have already worked out an extension with him but Gambo is, well, Gambo.

Here's some info on the prospects. This guy rates them as 2 B's and a C.

I can almost guarantee that we will not resign Prado. He has said previously that he wants $15 million per year and I cannot see the Diamondbacks making that sort of investment.
 
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Bayless2Budinger

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And a savings of almost $6 mil on a mid market team is a big deal no matter how you cut it.

Especially when that mid-market team just signed Cody Ross to a 3 year 26 million dollar deal. Have to save money after making that mistake right? Right??? SMH
 

Matt L

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Rough Trade, hopefully Cody Ross and Jason Kubel will be able to hit the cutoff man regularily. That should satisfy the majority of the Dbacks fans.
 

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Kevin Towers... is that you? They haven't cut your cable line yet?


I can almost guarantee that we will not resign Prado. He has said previously that he wants $15 million per year and I cannot see the Diamondbacks making that sort of investment.

Lol ...I just have a realistic expectation of what this team is financially capable of.

I truly wish this team could afford to pay Upton 9mil this year and 14 mil for the next two to hopefully realize his potential but that just isnt the case. IMO there is way more to this than any of us know.
 
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Lol ...I just have a realistic expectation of what this team is financially capable of.

I truly wish this team could afford to pay Upton 9mil this year and 14 mil for the next two to hopefully realize his potential but that just isnt the case.

Sorry but I am calling ********. If we are realistic about the finances of the Diamondbacks let's take a long look at them. In 2012 the diamondbacks were 23rd in the MLB in total salary which totaled to a little over $74 million. If we were dumping Justin (and you are correct Upton would cost $9 million next year and $14 in 2014 and 2015), why sign Cody Ross to a deal that gives him $26 million over 3 years? That pays him almost the amount that Upton would be receiving next year and still be marginal after that. In addition to this, if this trade was truly about payroll, why trade for the bloated contract of Heath Bell? IF Didi is the next Derek Jeter, why sign Cliff Pennigton (2 years, $5 million) to a two year deal when you have Willie Bloomquist ($1.9 Mil) and JMac ($1.5 mil) still under contact? Did I miss where Baseball added in another shortstop to just field and not hit?

We also have a ton of money invested in third base this year too now that Prado is going to be our starter. Prior to getting Prado, KT signed Eric Chavez to a one year, $3 million deal. Hinske was also brought in to compete for the third base job and he got over a million too.

Towers even claimed that starting pitching was a strength for the organization, but then goes out and hands a 2 year $15.5 million to a pitcher (Brandon McCarthy who caught a line drive with his face and it is uncertain if he can mentally return)? If we didn't have $9 million to invest in an all-star, MVP candidate why invest it in a starting pitcher when we have Skaggs and Corbin excelling in Triple A waiting for their shot?

If this trade was simply about dumping a "bad" contract then why has the team payroll increased? Why take on the bad contracts of Heath Bell and Cody Ross? Why not deal someone like Brad Zieglar who is making over $3 million per season for pitching one inning every week?

Quite frankly nothing Towers has done this offseason that makes sense. He has increased the payroll for next year (contrary to your argument) while taking away much of the talent.

I also hate this comment that Upton won't realize his potential... as if we all forgot about his 2011 season? You know... the one where he finished in the top four in the MVP race at 24 years of age. The contract Upton was receiving, even for a small market, is a great deal. Just look at the money being thrown around now for free agents. Josh Hamilton, who also failed to live up to the huge expectations placed on him by being drafted #1 overall until just recently, got a five year $125 million deal. And Hamilton not only had problems meeting his potential but also drug addiction and the injury bug.

Not only that but this supposed 'bad' season Upton had was only looked upon poorly because of the expectations that were placed on Upton. If you take his numbers and put them up against other outfielders you will find he, even though he struggled, was still an above average player in the MLB.

Shame on the Diamondbacks organization for their handling of everything this offseason. Their treatment of Upton really was disgraceful and immature. In a world where social media makes it easy for athletes to say something they regret, Upton kept his mouth shut went out and played baseball (even while he struggled with injury). All the while Kendrick, Hall and Towers played Man in the High Castle.
 
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Kel Varnsen

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This was the trade that Kevin Towers was blown away with? Pathetic. Just really, really sad. Not only did we get fleeced with the Didi trade, but now this. Tough offseason to watch.

Best of luck to Justin in the future. It is really sad that a 25 year old is more mature than Derrick Hall and Kevin Towers. Can't wait for these two men to now call out Upton who did nothing but keep quiet when his name was thrown around more than Coke at a Lohan party.

On a side note, it really is going to be a tough decade for Arizona professional sports if this is the team management we are going to have.

I'm 95% sure that Kevin Towers is still working for the Padres.

:mrgreen:
 

JS22

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Not a bad trade in my opinion. Delgado is only 22 and has a lot of upside. Only a year ago he was looked at as an up and coming star. Prado immidiately improves the defense at third base and cuts down the strikeouts drastically. Ahmed and Drury add depth to a system that was lacking it at their respective positions. Spruill has the makings of a solid middle rotation guy in the near future.

The financial savings will allow the Dbacks to pursue help if they are in contention come July.

Finally lets face it ...Upton was never going to be here this year. best case scenario he would have reached the potential we all hoped for him and would have been gone in a year and a half anyway due to the huge contract he would have commanded. The mid market Dbacks just cant afford a $20 mil plus player.

Fair enough. Upton has been fairly disappointing - and I do really like Prado. However, I'm not sure if this deal is worth the risk. (Upton finally blossoming into a true star elsewhere.) Because of that, I would have had to been blown away by an offer to trade Upton. This one does not blow me away.
 

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Sorry but I am calling ********. If we are realistic about the finances of the Diamondbacks let's take a long look at them. In 2012 the diamondbacks were 23rd in the MLB in total salary which totaled to a little over $74 million. If we were dumping Justin (and you are correct Upton would cost $9 million next year and $14 in 2014 and 2015), why sign Cody Ross to a deal that gives him $26 million over 3 years? That pays him almost the amount that Upton would be receiving next year and still be marginal after that. In addition to this, if this trade was truly about payroll, why trade for the bloated contract of Heath Bell? IF Didi is the next Derek Jeter, why sign Cliff Pennigton (2 years, $5 million) to a two year deal when you have Willie Bloomquist ($1.9 Mil) and JMac ($1.5 mil) still under contact? Did I miss where Baseball added in another shortstop to just field and not hit?

We also have a ton of money invested in third base this year too now that Prado is going to be our starter. Prior to getting Prado, KT signed Eric Chavez to a one year, $3 million deal. Hinske was also brought in to compete for the third base job and he got over a million too.

Towers even claimed that starting pitching was a strength for the organization, but then goes out and hands a 2 year $15.5 million to a pitcher (Brandon McCarthy who caught a line drive with his face and it is uncertain if he can mentally return)? If we didn't have $9 million to invest in an all-star, MVP candidate why invest it in a starting pitcher when we have Skaggs and Corbin excelling in Triple A waiting for their shot?

If this trade was simply about dumping a "bad" contract then why has the team payroll increased? Why take on the bad contracts of Heath Bell and Cody Ross? Why not deal someone like Brad Zieglar who is making over $3 million per season for pitching one inning every week?

Quite frankly nothing Towers has done this offseason that makes sense. He has increased the payroll for next year (contrary to your argument) while taking away much of the talent.

I also hate this comment that Upton won't realize his potential... as if we all forgot about his 2011 season? You know... the one where he finished in the top four in the MVP race at 24 years of age. The contract Upton was receiving, even for a small market, is a great deal. Just look at the money being thrown around now for free agents. Josh Hamilton, who also failed to live up to the huge expectations placed on him by being drafted #1 overall until just recently, got a five year $125 million deal. And Hamilton not only had problems meeting his potential but also drug addiction and the injury bug.

Not only that but this supposed 'bad' season Upton had was only looked upon poorly because of the expectations that were placed on Upton. If you take his numbers and put them up against other outfielders you will find he, even though he struggled, was still an above average player in the MLB.

Shame on the Diamondbacks organization for their handling of everything this offseason. Their treatment of Upton really was disgraceful and immature. In a world where social media makes it easy for athletes to say something they regret, Upton kept his mouth shut went out and played baseball (even while he struggled with injury). All the while Kendrick, Hall and Towers played Man in the High Castle.

Excellent Post. Someone email this to KTAR
 

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Sorry but I am calling ********. If we are realistic about the finances of the Diamondbacks let's take a long look at them. In 2012 the diamondbacks were 23rd in the MLB in total salary which totaled to a little over $74 million. If we were dumping Justin (and you are correct Upton would cost $9 million next year and $14 in 2014 and 2015), why sign Cody Ross to a deal that gives him $26 million over 3 years? That pays him almost the amount that Upton would be receiving next year and still be marginal after that. In addition to this, if this trade was truly about payroll, why trade for the bloated contract of Heath Bell? IF Didi is the next Derek Jeter, why sign Cliff Pennigton (2 years, $5 million) to a two year deal when you have Willie Bloomquist ($1.9 Mil) and JMac ($1.5 mil) still under contact? Did I miss where Baseball added in another shortstop to just field and not hit?

We also have a ton of money invested in third base this year too now that Prado is going to be our starter. Prior to getting Prado, KT signed Eric Chavez to a one year, $3 million deal. Hinske was also brought in to compete for the third base job and he got over a million too.

Towers even claimed that starting pitching was a strength for the organization, but then goes out and hands a 2 year $15.5 million to a pitcher (Brandon McCarthy who caught a line drive with his face and it is uncertain if he can mentally return)? If we didn't have $9 million to invest in an all-star, MVP candidate why invest it in a starting pitcher when we have Skaggs and Corbin excelling in Triple A waiting for their shot?

If this trade was simply about dumping a "bad" contract then why has the team payroll increased? Why take on the bad contracts of Heath Bell and Cody Ross? Why not deal someone like Brad Zieglar who is making over $3 million per season for pitching one inning every week?

Quite frankly nothing Towers has done this offseason that makes sense. He has increased the payroll for next year (contrary to your argument) while taking away much of the talent.

I also hate this comment that Upton won't realize his potential... as if we all forgot about his 2011 season? You know... the one where he finished in the top four in the MVP race at 24 years of age. The contract Upton was receiving, even for a small market, is a great deal. Just look at the money being thrown around now for free agents. Josh Hamilton, who also failed to live up to the huge expectations placed on him by being drafted #1 overall until just recently, got a five year $125 million deal. And Hamilton not only had problems meeting his potential but also drug addiction and the injury bug.

Not only that but this supposed 'bad' season Upton had was only looked upon poorly because of the expectations that were placed on Upton. If you take his numbers and put them up against other outfielders you will find he, even though he struggled, was still an above average player in the MLB.

Shame on the Diamondbacks organization for their handling of everything this offseason. Their treatment of Upton really was disgraceful and immature. In a world where social media makes it easy for athletes to say something they regret, Upton kept his mouth shut went out and played baseball (even while he struggled with injury). All the while Kendrick, Hall and Towers played Man in the High Castle.

Good post.

I still think this team wins 90 games next year. Going to be your prototypical Towers team where sum is bigger then parts.

Good luck to Justin and I am glad he gets to play with his brother.
 
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Bayless2Budinger

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Your 2013 Arizona Diamondbacks "No Blacks allowed" Congrats Towers you got your hard working team. :bang:
 

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Sorry but I am calling ********. If we are realistic about the finances of the Diamondbacks let's take a long look at them. In 2012 the diamondbacks were 23rd in the MLB in total salary which totaled to a little over $74 million. If we were dumping Justin (and you are correct Upton would cost $9 million next year and $14 in 2014 and 2015), why sign Cody Ross to a deal that gives him $26 million over 3 years? That pays him almost the amount that Upton would be receiving next year and still be marginal after that. In addition to this, if this trade was truly about payroll, why trade for the bloated contract of Heath Bell? IF Didi is the next Derek Jeter, why sign Cliff Pennigton (2 years, $5 million) to a two year deal when you have Willie Bloomquist ($1.9 Mil) and JMac ($1.5 mil) still under contact? Did I miss where Baseball added in another shortstop to just field and not hit?

We also have a ton of money invested in third base this year too now that Prado is going to be our starter. Prior to getting Prado, KT signed Eric Chavez to a one year, $3 million deal. Hinske was also brought in to compete for the third base job and he got over a million too.

Towers even claimed that starting pitching was a strength for the organization, but then goes out and hands a 2 year $15.5 million to a pitcher (Brandon McCarthy who caught a line drive with his face and it is uncertain if he can mentally return)? If we didn't have $9 million to invest in an all-star, MVP candidate why invest it in a starting pitcher when we have Skaggs and Corbin excelling in Triple A waiting for their shot?

If this trade was simply about dumping a "bad" contract then why has the team payroll increased? Why take on the bad contracts of Heath Bell and Cody Ross? Why not deal someone like Brad Zieglar who is making over $3 million per season for pitching one inning every week?

Quite frankly nothing Towers has done this offseason that makes sense. He has increased the payroll for next year (contrary to your argument) while taking away much of the talent.

I also hate this comment that Upton won't realize his potential... as if we all forgot about his 2011 season? You know... the one where he finished in the top four in the MVP race at 24 years of age. The contract Upton was receiving, even for a small market, is a great deal. Just look at the money being thrown around now for free agents. Josh Hamilton, who also failed to live up to the huge expectations placed on him by being drafted #1 overall until just recently, got a five year $125 million deal. And Hamilton not only had problems meeting his potential but also drug addiction and the injury bug.

Not only that but this supposed 'bad' season Upton had was only looked upon poorly because of the expectations that were placed on Upton. If you take his numbers and put them up against other outfielders you will find he, even though he struggled, was still an above average player in the MLB.

Shame on the Diamondbacks organization for their handling of everything this offseason. Their treatment of Upton really was disgraceful and immature. In a world where social media makes it easy for athletes to say something they regret, Upton kept his mouth shut went out and played baseball (even while he struggled with injury). All the while Kendrick, Hall and Towers played Man in the High Castle.

Man... always funny to see how quickly and radically people react to these deals.
Aside from the 2011 season - which was good, not great - he has never come close to matching his true potential. Along with his all too frequent fielding issues, I can see why he was on the block. I also think it's more than slightly interesting to see the general lack of high-quality/top talent being offered up for him (Mariners aside).

Let's check back in 2-3 years and see where all this goes. J-Up just might finally find his stride and produce at a level everyone expected him to... or, he just might not... time will tell.
And, I might have missed it, but where did Towers say this was about "getting rid of a bad contract"?? Upton's contract was actually quite favorable.
 
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Bayless2Budinger

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Take that crap somewhere else dude... seriously.... :mulli:

Seriously. You keep hearing about how the Diamondbacks needed a change of culture...so they got rid of someone with a creative mind (Bauer) and the two young black outfielders in return for hard-working guys like Heath Bell, Cliff Pennington, and Martin Prado. Now reports from who knows where (Towers/Kendrick) are saying that Upton had a attitude problem, did not give respect to Gibby, was lazy in the outfield. It's crap and it has a racial tone to it. The Diamondbacks are not the first or only ones to talk, leak reports or scout with examples like white guys are "hard working with little talent" while black guys are "athletic but have attitude problems".
 

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Seriously. You keep hearing about how the Diamondbacks needed a change of culture...so they got rid of someone with a creative mind (Bauer) and the two young black outfielders in return for hard-working guys like Heath Bell, Cliff Pennington, and Martin Prado. Now reports from who knows where (Towers/Kendrick) are saying that Upton had a attitude problem, did not give respect to Gibby, was lazy in the outfield. It's crap and it has a racial tone to it. The Diamondbacks are not the first or only ones to talk, leak reports or scout with examples like white guys are "hard working with little talent" while black guys are "athletic but have attitude problems".

LOL, you are really reaching here.
 

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Seriously. You keep hearing about how the Diamondbacks needed a change of culture...so they got rid of someone with a creative mind (Bauer) and the two young black outfielders in return for hard-working guys like Heath Bell, Cliff Pennington, and Martin Prado. Now reports from who knows where (Towers/Kendrick) are saying that Upton had a attitude problem, did not give respect to Gibby, was lazy in the outfield. It's crap and it has a racial tone to it. The Diamondbacks are not the first or only ones to talk, leak reports or scout with examples like white guys are "hard working with little talent" while black guys are "athletic but have attitude problems".

Please tell me you're joking, right??
 
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Take that crap somewhere else dude... seriously.... :mulli:

While not the most eloquently stated, I hate to say he has something there. Upton was constantly harassed for being 'lazy' while he played because he never reached his enormous potential. However, Stephen Drew was adored by fans here and yet he also never reached the enormous potential that was promised (If you remember he was predicted to be a .300 hitter with 20+ homers annually). Even when listening to those announcing the game, Drew would make a lackadaisical play and get praised for his 'smooth' movements. On the other hand, Justin would make a nonchalant catch and suddenly he was showboating.

While it might not be as black and white as being black and white (see what I did there) something about the difference of treatment of African American sports players and coaches, in Arizona, should be discussed and possibly critiqued.

In a state portrayed as behind the times due to our political sphere, the sports organizations (with the trading of Upton, the firing of Alvin Gentry, and the not hiring of Ray Horton) are not helping curb that view point.

Is the poster's response an overreaction to a horrible trade? Maybe.

But in a sports world where numerous people are complaining over the lack of minorities represented in organizations, the Arizona franchises looked to ship three very talented African Americans out of town.
 
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Bayless2Budinger

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Man... always funny to see how quickly and radically people react to these deals.
Aside from the 2011 season - which was good, not great - he has never come close to matching his true potential. Along with his all too frequent fielding issues, I can see why he was on the block. I also think it's more than slightly interesting to see the general lack of high-quality/top talent being offered up for him (Mariners aside).

His 2011 was great, he was top 5 in MVP voting and had a War of 6.4. Stop trying to bring down what he did. Let's not forget that he truly has not had a "bad" year and will only be 25 this year. Only about 10 players since the game was integrated have done as much as Upton has done at the same age. You bring up his fielding and yes he did make mistakes. But he covered more ground than almost all everyday outfielders and was thought of as a very good defender by scouts, and other people in the sport. Just because someone misplays a ball or two doesn't mean he's ****.

I can't wait till you see a OF consisting of Kubel,Eaton and Ross. When balls start falling in everywhere then we can talk about bad defense. But hey as long as they look like they are hustling as they try to cover about half as well as Upton and CY did.

Let's not forget that Prado, who is suppose to be in his prime, had a very bad 2011 where Braves fans questioned his ability and future. Then he went out and had a good year last year. Maybe it was due to his injury just like Upton's injury last year? No couldn't be.
 
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Bayless2Budinger

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While not the most eloquently stated, I hate to say he has something there. Upton was constantly harassed for being 'lazy' while he played because he never reached his enormous potential. However, Stephen Drew was adored by fans here and yet he also never reached the enormous potential that was promised (If you remember he was predicted to be a .300 hitter with 20+ homers annually). Even when listening to those announcing the game, Drew would make a lackadaisical play and get praised for his 'smooth' movements. On the other hand, Justin would make a nonchalant catch and suddenly he was showboating.

While it might not be as black and white as being black and white (see what I did there) something about the difference of treatment of African American sports players and coaches, in Arizona, should be discussed and possibly critiqued.

In a state portrayed as behind the times due to our political sphere, the sports organizations (with the trading of Upton, the firing of Alvin Gentry, and the not hiring of Ray Horton) are not helping curb that view point.

Is the poster's response an overreaction to a horrible trade? Maybe.

But in a sports world where numerous people are complaining over the lack of minorities represented in organizations, the Arizona franchises looked to ship three very talented African Americans out of town.

Thanks. You put it into better words.
 
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Bayless2Budinger

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Honestly it's just about the same as Amare being lambasted for his defense while Nash got a pass from most people. They justified it as saying Nash was working hard but just didn't have the ability.
 
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