Justin Upton and C Johnson traded to Atlanta for Prado, Delgado, prospects

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Who would have ever thought that the Cardinals would be considered a better run team than the Suns or the D-Backs? Also they are the team with the brightest future of the 3 IMO and they are in rough shape right now..

 

[82CardsGrad]

His 2011 was great, he was top 5 in MVP voting and had a War of 6.4. Stop trying to bring down what he did. Let's not forget that he truly has not had a "bad" year and will only be 25 this year. Only about 10 players since the game was integrated have done as much as Upton has done at the same age. You bring up his fielding and yes he did make mistakes. But he covered more ground than almost all everyday outfielders and was thought of as a very good defender by scouts, and other people in the sport. Just because someone misplays a ball or two doesn't mean he's ****.

I can't wait till you see a OF consisting of Kubel,Eaton and Ross. When balls start falling in everywhere then we can talk about bad defense. But hey as long as they look like they are hustling as they try to cover about half as well as Upton and CY did.

Let's not forget that Prado, who is suppose to be in his prime, had a very bad 2011 where Braves fans questioned his ability and future. Then he went out and had a good year last year. Maybe it was due to his injury just like Upton's injury last year? No couldn't be.

Didn't reach 90 RBI... Had 126 K's... Batted less than .290. 171 total hits... Somehow that's "great"?? Sure....
As for his fielding... He's got a tremendous arm. That's what "experts" have always liked about him in the field. Otherwise, his glove is barely average, if that.
For the record, I don't believe any remaining outfielder on the team is better than Upton.

Again, time will tell. However, you're racist slant is pathetic. We're done dude. Later.

 

[SunsTzu]

In a state portrayed as behind the times due to our political sphere, the sports organizations (with the trading of Upton, the firing of Alvin Gentry, and the not hiring of Ray Horton) are not helping curb that view point.

Don't be ridiculous. Look at who fired Gentry, look at who replaced him and even look at who Gentry replaced. If people have a stereotypes about the state and it sports then they're no better.

 

[82CardsGrad]

While not the most eloquently stated, I hate to say he has something there. Upton was constantly harassed for being 'lazy' while he played because he never reached his enormous potential. However, Stephen Drew was adored by fans here and yet he also never reached the enormous potential that was promised (If you remember he was predicted to be a .300 hitter with 20+ homers annually). Even when listening to those announcing the game, Drew would make a lackadaisical play and get praised for his 'smooth' movements. On the other hand, Justin would make a nonchalant catch and suddenly he was showboating.

While it might not be as black and white as being black and white (see what I did there) something about the difference of treatment of African American sports players and coaches, in Arizona, should be discussed and possibly critiqued.

In a state portrayed as behind the times due to our political sphere, the sports organizations (with the trading of Upton, the firing of Alvin Gentry, and the not hiring of Ray Horton) are not helping curb that view point.

Is the poster's response an overreaction to a horrible trade? Maybe.

But in a sports world where numerous people are complaining over the lack of minorities represented in organizations, the Arizona franchises looked to ship three very talented African Americans out of town.

Uh, Gentry was replaced with another black man. The Cards replaced Horton with another black man... You guys are just being super silly now...

 

[TwoCardsOneCup]

Man... always funny to see how quickly and radically people react to these deals.
Aside from the 2011 season - which was good, not great - he has never come close to matching his true potential. Along with his all too frequent fielding issues, I can see why he was on the block. I also think it's more than slightly interesting to see the general lack of high-quality/top talent being offered up for him (Mariners aside).

If Upton's 2011 season was just good not great I would like for you to find a list of 24 year olds who have performed as well as Upton did when he was that age. It might take you a while to find some... I will wait.

Keith Law had a great quote on this trade:

The Diamondbacks' new strategy seems to be to trade any player that manager Kirk Gibson doesn't like, regardless of the reason. For the second time this offseason, they've made such a deal and taken less than full value in return for a player the whole industry knew the team wanted to move. At some point, they're going to have to stop blaming the players.

Arizona's return boils down to this: One year of Martin Prado, six years of a fifth starter in Randall Delgado, two fringy prospects, and one non-prospect. If that sounds like a good deal to you, I have some beachfront property in Phoenix to sell you.

There is no way to defend what Kevin Towers has done this offseason. None, zip, zero, nada (Spanish for nothing ).

And, I might have missed it, but where did Towers say this was about "getting rid of a bad contract"?? Upton's contract was actually quite favorable.

The poster that I responded to claimed Upton's contract was not favorable.

 

[SunsTzu]

Who would have ever thought that the Cardinals would be considered a better run team than the Suns or the D-Backs? Also they are the team with the brightest future of the 3 IMO and they are in rough shape right now..

That's open for debate. I personally think the Cards just rehired the guy they fired. None of the teams look to have particularly bright futures but I'd think the DBacks will have better seasons in the near future than the other 2.

 

[JS22]

Honestly it's just about the same as Amare being lambasted for his defense while Nash got a pass from most people. They justified it as saying Nash was working hard but just didn't have the ability.

Because it's true.

 

[82CardsGrad]

If Upton's 2011 season was just good not great I would like for you to find a list of 24 year olds who have performed as well as Upton did when he was that age. It might take you a while to find some... I will wait.

Keith Law had a great quote on this trade:




There is no way to defend what Kevin Towers has done this offseason. None, zip, zero, nada (Spanish for nothing ).



The poster that I responded to claimed Upton's contract was not favorable.

Good. Not great. And again - time will tell if Upton ever fulfills his immense talent.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Didn't reach 90 RBI... Had 126 K's... Batted less than .290. 171 total hits... Somehow that's "great"?? Sure....
As for his fielding... He's got a tremendous arm. That's what "experts" have always liked about him in the field. Otherwise, his glove is barely average, if that.
For the record, I don't believe any remaining outfielder on the team is better than Upton.

Again, time will tell. However, you're racist slant is pathetic. We're done dude. Later.

I'm so glad its 1970 when we judge things using RBI as a stat. He was 23rd in AVG, 9th in HR, 3rd in RUNS, 16th in RBI, 15th in SB, 11th in OBP, 10th in SLG, 4th in WAR. He also struck out less times than hitters like Votto, Kemp. All while providing defense good enough to win the Fielding Bible Award.

His defense isn't just about his great arm. He covers more ground than most guys. He just misplays balls, and therefore puts himself into some situations that look bad.

My racist slant is warranted especially after the character attack on him by Diamondbacks employees today.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Good. Not great. And again - time will tell if Upton ever fulfills his immense talent.

He has lived up to his immense talent so far in the fact that only 10 or so players have done as much as he's done at his age in the past 50 or more years.

 

[TwoCardsOneCup]

He has lived up to his immense talent so far in the fact that only 10 or so players have done as much as he's done at his age in the past 50 or more years.

Yeah but we all know that to be great you need to be the in the top 5 players in the past 50 years.

 

[SweetD]

He has lived up to his immense talent so far in the fact that only 10 or so players have done as much as he's done at his age in the past 50 or more years.

Hmm don't see Upton's name on this list?

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/32231/all-time-top-25-players-under-25

 

[TwoCardsOneCup]

Hmm don't see Upton's name on this list?

I do believe that the previous poster said last 50 years and this list includes Walter Johnson, Pete Reiser, and Mel Ott. Your math might be a little off...

 

[jonberry]

Didn't reach 90 RBI... Had 126 K's... Batted less than .290. 171 total hits... Somehow that's "great"?? Sure....
As for his fielding... He's got a tremendous arm. That's what "experts" have always liked about him in the field. Otherwise, his glove is barely average, if that.
For the record, I don't believe any remaining outfielder on the team is better than Upton.

Again, time will tell. However, you're racist slant is pathetic. We're done dude. Later.

Yet you love Jason Kubel who has only had 1 season where he hit over .290, never had 171 hits, struck out 25 more times last season, and had only 2 season where he hit more than 90 RBI (which may be the stupidest stat of all), all while playing mediocre to below average defense.

Oh, and the new guys Cody Ross, never hit over .290, top RBI mark is 90, never come close to 171 hits, and average defense.

 

[Phrazbit]

Kevin Towers is an imbecile. A meddling idiot with no plan, no direction, who is just stabbing wildly in the dark. A moron who's goal seems to be to assemble the deepest team of all time... a batting order that is top to bottom #6 hitters, 7 starters all who should be #3 in the rotation and a bullpen with 8 setup men and no closer.

F him.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Didn't reach 90 RBI... Had 126 K's... Batted less than .290. 171 total hits... Somehow that's "great"?? Sure....
As for his fielding... He's got a tremendous arm. That's what "experts" have always liked about him in the field. Otherwise, his glove is barely average, if that.
For the record, I don't believe any remaining outfielder on the team is better than Upton.

Again, time will tell. However, you're racist slant is pathetic. We're done dude. Later.

Yet you love Jason Kubel who has only had 1 season where he hit over .290, never had 171 hits, struck out 25 more times last season, and had only 2 season where he hit more than 90 RBI (which may be the stupidest stat of all), all while playing mediocre to below average defense.

Oh, and the new guys Cody Ross, never hit over .290, top RBI mark is 90, never come close to 171 hits, and average defense.

You seem to type pretty well... not sure why you can't read as well though??

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Hmm don't see Upton's name on this list?

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/32231/all-time-top-25-players-under-25

Have you looked at that list? It's one guys opinion and is judging off one season.

Since 1947, Upton is 1 of 24 players to have over 100 home runs and a WAR of more than 13 at his age.

Hes 1 of 7 players to have over 80 SB, and 100 HR at his age.

One of 20 players to have a OPS+ over 100 and play over 700 games at his age.

One of 17 players to play over 300 games with above a .275 avg, .350 obp, and 100 home runs at his age.

The 9th highest OBP for someone at his age that has played in over 700 games. The guys ahead of him are Mantle, Miggy, Mathews, Frank Robinson, Griffey, Arod, Kaline and Hank Aaron

You get where I'm going? Not too many players since integration have done as much as hes done through the age of 24. Yet we want to complain?

 

[outcent13]

@TwoCardsOneCup

• I never said it was a bad contract. The problem is if he performs well he will get traded within two years due to the fact that they won’t pay him the 25mil plus he would request upon reaching free agency or he doesn’t meet expectations and you have an underperforming player that accounts for nearly 19% of your total salary.
• It has already been stated that a middle infielder will probably be moved.
• Hinske isn’t here to play third base
• Zeigler was actually a very effective reliever last year and appeared in nearly half of the teams total games( hardly once a week)
• Pitching wins championships and I’m not sure how making an apparent strength even stronger (especially when it comes to pitching) is a bad thing. Both Bell and McCarthy have had success.

I will agree that management did a poor job handling the situation.

Finally, I can name AT LEAST five players under 25 that I would rather have than Upton last year alone:
1. Mike Trout
2. Giancarlo Stanton
3. Bryce Harper
4. Clayton Kershaw
5. Manny Machado

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

1. Mike Trout
2. Giancarlo Stanton
3. Bryce Harper
4. Clayton Kershaw
5. Manny Machado

Cool. Too bad those guys are untouchable like Upton should have been.

 

[outcent13]

1. Mike Trout $ 500,000 exceeds expectations
2. Giancarlo Stanton $896,000 exceeds expectations
3. Bryce Harper $2,000,000 exceeds expectations
4. Clayton Kershaw $11,000,000 exceeds expectations
5. Manny Machado $ 500,000 exceeds expectations
6. Justin Upton $ 9,750,000 does not meet expectations

​

That is why he was expendable and the others are not.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

1. Mike Trout $ 500,000 exceeds expectations
2. Giancarlo Stanton $896,000 exceeds expectations
3. Bryce Harper $2,000,000 exceeds expectations
4. Clayton Kershaw $11,000,000 exceeds expectations
5. Manny Machado $ 500,000 exceeds expectations
6. Justin Upton $ 9,750,000 does not meet expectations

​

That is why he was expendable and the others are not.

WTF kind of argument is that? So did Machado have as good of a season as Upton? You do realize you are trying to compare Upton and his salary to guys that are on there rookie deal where they got big bonuses. Upton actually met his expectations if you translate WAR into his $ value.He also only made $6.75 million. His season last year was worth about 11 million on the open market. His 2011 year was better than any of those guys 2012 year besides Trout.

He played through a injury last year and still put up the numbers he did. Only a couple OF in the NL have done what hes done the past 3-4 years. These guys you posted minus Stanton and Kershaw still have to prove they can do what they did on a consistant basis. Trout and Harper just had two of the best "rookie" seasons ever but you want to say Upton is expendable because he got paid more and didn't do as good as some all-time seasons?

It sounds like you hold Upton, his play, and his potential to a very high standard. So does it make sense to trade him for a guy that we have control over for a year, and a good sp prospect and 3 fringe prospects? Let me know how many guys his age that have produced like he has, that have been traded.

 

[TruCard]

So, which owner is the worse owner in Arizona? It's still Sarver with Kendrick in a close second followed by the Bidwills.

Arizona has fallen to an all-time low in sports. Sad, Sad, Sad.

 

[outcent13]

My standards for him are irrelevant. I didn’t trade the guy and never said I would have. In fact if you’ve read any of my posts I’ve stated numerous times that I would not have. I only said that knowing that he was going to be traded, this wasn’t that bad of a deal. Fair or not we are all judged against the expectations set for us…if we don’t meet them most employers will move on. Cold, hard, fact of life.

And if you’re going to use WAR as an argument (which is reasonable) then the addition of Ross and Prado is about 4.5 games better than Upton and Johnson.

 

[SunsTzu]

So, which owner is the worse owner in Arizona?

It's bad when the best team is league owned.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Sorry but I am calling ********. If we are realistic about the finances of the Diamondbacks let's take a long look at them. In 2012 the diamondbacks were 23rd in the MLB in total salary which totaled to a little over $74 million. If we were dumping Justin (and you are correct Upton would cost $9 million next year and $14 in 2014 and 2015), why sign Cody Ross to a deal that gives him $26 million over 3 years? That pays him almost the amount that Upton would be receiving next year and still be marginal after that. In addition to this, if this trade was truly about payroll, why trade for the bloated contract of Heath Bell? IF Didi is the next Derek Jeter, why sign Cliff Pennigton (2 years, $5 million) to a two year deal when you have Willie Bloomquist ($1.9 Mil) and JMac ($1.5 mil) still under contact? Did I miss where Baseball added in another shortstop to just field and not hit?

We also have a ton of money invested in third base this year too now that Prado is going to be our starter. Prior to getting Prado, KT signed Eric Chavez to a one year, $3 million deal. Hinske was also brought in to compete for the third base job and he got over a million too.

Towers even claimed that starting pitching was a strength for the organization, but then goes out and hands a 2 year $15.5 million to a pitcher (Brandon McCarthy who caught a line drive with his face and it is uncertain if he can mentally return)? If we didn't have $9 million to invest in an all-star, MVP candidate why invest it in a starting pitcher when we have Skaggs and Corbin excelling in Triple A waiting for their shot?

If this trade was simply about dumping a "bad" contract then why has the team payroll increased? Why take on the bad contracts of Heath Bell and Cody Ross? Why not deal someone like Brad Zieglar who is making over $3 million per season for pitching one inning every week?

Quite frankly nothing Towers has done this offseason that makes sense. He has increased the payroll for next year (contrary to your argument) while taking away much of the talent.

I also hate this comment that Upton won't realize his potential... as if we all forgot about his 2011 season? You know... the one where he finished in the top four in the MVP race at 24 years of age. The contract Upton was receiving, even for a small market, is a great deal. Just look at the money being thrown around now for free agents. Josh Hamilton, who also failed to live up to the huge expectations placed on him by being drafted #1 overall until just recently, got a five year $125 million deal. And Hamilton not only had problems meeting his potential but also drug addiction and the injury bug.

Not only that but this supposed 'bad' season Upton had was only looked upon poorly because of the expectations that were placed on Upton. If you take his numbers and put them up against other outfielders you will find he, even though he struggled, was still an above average player in the MLB.

Shame on the Diamondbacks organization for their handling of everything this offseason. Their treatment of Upton really was disgraceful and immature. In a world where social media makes it easy for athletes to say something they regret, Upton kept his mouth shut went out and played baseball (even while he struggled with injury). All the while Kendrick, Hall and Towers played Man in the High Castle.

Well said, welcome to the board. This entire offseason has been insane, and getting rid of our only potential superstar for 50 cents on the dollar really has ruined my opinion of Towers. We'll be laughed at for years for this one.