K9's NFL QB Rankings

[Cbus cardsfan]

I agree with Russ.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sorry, I didnt realize you were still planting your feet in the mud on the o-line, I will get back on that right now.

The Cardinals minus Kolb had a league average line last year (and above average in the running game), you assert that Manning didnt come here because of our O-line and instead choosing Denver. Despite that there is no statistical basis or statements to back up that point.

So... I didnt bring it up again because you were wrong. If you can show me where there is any indication whatsoever that Manning swung his decision based on that... hell, you can give me second hand conjecture from a "source" if you want, then I will concede the point. But there is absolutely nothing to backup your blanket statement that Manning did not come here because of the line.

And we are arguing about whether Smith is worse than Kolb... which you seem to assert. Smith HAS had more average to above average years than "terrible" ones. 4 years now of 80+ QB rating, despite grossly inept offensive coaching until Harbaugh took over. I am not arguing that Smith is elite or even good. He is an average QB in a very ideal situation. You are asserting that he is instead terrible and the Kolb is better.

You want to explain what makes Kolb better... you go ahead. I am all ears. Its easy to to kick Smith to the curb with the putrid stats he put up early in his career, but its extremely difficult to make an argument where Kolb is a better QB right now.

No you suggested that Denver's line was even worse and that picking Denver over us because of OL was dumb. I pointed out Denver's line was actually MUCH better except when Tebow was QB, and you didn't counter until now and now the counter is the Cards OLwas average.

It wasn't, we allowed 54 sacks last year, the only team that allowed more was the Rams with 55. 23 of those were Skelton who played in EIGHT games. Now again you're the math expert but it would seem to me a reasonable guess is that if he got sacked 23 times in 8 games(not all starts), that he'd have been sacked somewhere around 46 times if he'd played in all 16 games. 46 sacks would have placed us 26th in the league among OL's. Now last time I took stats classes 26 out of 32 was NOT average no matter which definition of average you used.

Buffalo gave up 23 sacks last year, in 16 games, the same number Skelton took in 8 games.

So I feel pretty confident in saying the Cards OL was NOT average last year and in fact was WAY below average.

THe Cards had to make a decision because of Kolb's bonus situaiton and they pulled out of the Manning situation because they weren't confident he was coming and went with Kolb. If you read the Denver Post story on Manning before he signed it clearly states that Mannings agent says EVERY team he'd visited already agreed to the basic structure of a contract that would be in the 5 year 90 million area. So the claim that the Cards lost Manning over money is demonstrably false, they had already agreed to pay the market rate for him.

K9 is right in the idea that Kolb's bonus gave us a deadline to meet that other teams didn't have, we couldn't pay the bonus and then get Manning and drop Kolb so we had to know. that same article said that the teams left in the running for Manning were the ones Manning deemed to be the best fit for him and the reporter who wrote the story said in the story that the Broncos had made sure Manning was confident they would surround him with the type of talent at WR, RB and the OL needed to have a good offense. He had no quotes from Manning or his agent on that point but it's specifically in the story that Manning was asking the teams he visited about those things, I think we can then safely assume he asked the Cards the same things.

So you have the 2nd most sacks allowed and at that point what have we done to upgrade the OL, nothing. Yeah I don't think it's a leap of faith to say one of the reasons Manning hesitated on us was the other teams involved all had better OL's.

Living in the bay area I saw all the articles about SF and Manning, how it was repeatedly stated that one of the things the 49ers didn't like about Smith was how many sacks he took. Harbaugh had told him that sometimes a sack is the best outcome on a play due to Smiths' tendency to turn the ball over trying to make plays under pressure, but that the feeling on the team was Smith held the ball too long, hesitated to try and make the big plays downfield, and that they believed a QB like Manning would greatly reduce the drive ending sacks Smith took. NOte, the team that was 26th in sacks allowed last year, SF.

I would suggest you google the meaning of the word average because it doesn' mean what you think it means. When there are more QB's ranked above you than below you that's not average. It's only average if you throw in all the non starting QB's as well divide it all up and then get the MEAN passer rating of the whole NFL, not just starting QB's. If you're saying a starting QB is an average NFL QB I think most people assume you mean starter, not that if you add in ALL the NFL QB's he's about average. Andmost people will think you mean he's about in the middle as many guys above him as below.


I already gave you the numbers one year above 19th is not most years average.

I didn't say Kolb was better I said if they traded teams Kolb's numbers would go up and smiths would go down and based on Smiths' career it's quite likely the Cards wouldn't be 4-2 right now we'd be 500 or worse. Alex Smith's own college coach very famously said of him it takes him awhile to get comfortable in a system and until he is, he's not going to be very productive. Put him in Arizona in a new system with a coahc who's not easy on QB's and we'd not have been any better.

The Cards pulled out of Mannings bidding because they realized he wasn't coming and they decided to go ahead and keep Kolb. I said at the time I wouldn't have exercised the option I would have tried to get him at a lower rate. But K9's statement that Kevin Kolb cost us Manning is far less accurate than my claim that Manning wasn't coming here because of the OL. We'd already agreed to Manning's contract terms.

 

[Russ Smith]

What do you think of what Aaron Rodgers did just the week before?

Green Bay was at home vs. the Giants and he completed 56.5%, 2TD/1INT 76.5 Rating and the 15-1 Packers were one-and-done. Was Rodgers also not good enough to win it?

Smith had 5TD(+1 rushing)/0INT and a 101.0 Rating in two playoff games in 2011.

Granted, I agree that he's more Trent Dilfer than Joe Montana but "terrible"? I don't think terrible QB's put up 100+ ratings and average 3 TD per game in the playoffs.

Rodgers has been DEMONSTRABLY better than Smith since they entered the league. Did he play poorly against the Giants yes, he does have bad games. Show me the 6 TD games from Smith. Show me the games where Smith had to carry his team and did.

SF has asked Smith to try and win 2 games this year because they got behind in both of them, and SF has lost both games.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Cards pulled out of Mannings bidding because they realized he wasn't coming and they decided to go ahead and keep Kolb. I said at the time I wouldn't have exercised the option I would have tried to get him at a lower rate. But K9's statement that Kevin Kolb cost us Manning is far less accurate than my claim that Manning wasn't coming here because of the OL. We'd already agreed to Manning's contract terms.

As long as you completely ignore that the Cardinals had a self imposed deadline... The Cards could not pay Kolb his bonus AND sign Manning. So yes, Kolb's contract cost the Cardinals their shot at Manning. It is a fact.

While there is nothing but your opinion to say that Manning was swung entirely by the o-line.

 

[MrYeahBut]

As long as you completely ignore that the Cardinals had a self imposed deadline... The Cards could not pay Kolb his bonus AND sign Manning. So yes, Kolb's contract cost the Cardinals their shot at Manning. It is a fact.

While there is nothing but your opinion to say that Manning was swung entirely by the o-line.

As per the bolded above, who could blame him if that was the reason.


.

 

[Russ Smith]

As long as you completely ignore that the Cardinals had a self imposed deadline... The Cards could not pay Kolb his bonus AND sign Manning. So yes, Kolb's contract cost the Cardinals their shot at Manning. It is a fact.

While there is nothing but your opinion to say that Manning was swung entirely by the o-line.

So you don't know the definition of average, and you can't read?

In the very post you replied to.

K9 is right in the idea that Kolb's bonus gave us a deadline to meet that other teams didn't have, we couldn't pay the bonus and then get Manning and drop Kolb so we had to know.

not only not ignoring it I actually wrote it and explained it.

It is not a fact it caused us to make the decision earlier but do you REALLY think the Cards were going to get Manning but pulled out because of that? Or do you think just MAYBE the Cards knew at that point they were not getting Manning so they went to plan B, Kolb? We very clearly had a shot at Manning we went through the process of trying to get him to commit to us, and he didn't want to he continued looking at other teams, and letting other teams get involved. Seems pretty obvious to me that the cards concluded he's not coming we better go ahead and cover ourselves with Kolb.

What's the more logical conclusion?

 

[Phrazbit]

So you don't know the definition of average, and you can't read?

In the very post you replied to.

K9 is right in the idea that Kolb's bonus gave us a deadline to meet that other teams didn't have, we couldn't pay the bonus and then get Manning and drop Kolb so we had to know.

not only not ignoring it I actually wrote it and explained it.

It is not a fact it caused us to make the decision earlier but do you REALLY think the Cards were going to get Manning but pulled out because of that? Or do you think just MAYBE the Cards knew at that point they were not getting Manning so they went to plan B, Kolb? We very clearly had a shot at Manning we went through the process of trying to get him to commit to us, and he didn't want to he continued looking at other teams, and letting other teams get involved. Seems pretty obvious to me that the cards concluded he's not coming we better go ahead and cover ourselves with Kolb.

What's the more logical conclusion?

I think Manning was a free agent for the first and last time in his career and was willing to listen to all parties. That more teams came involved late clearly didnt mean that the first teams he spoke to didnt impress because he ended up signing with the very first team he visited.

I dont know what was going on in the Cards heads at the time but I do know that the Kolb contract deadline put nail in the coffin on the Manning pursuit.

Where our real disconnect is your stance that Manning made his choice based entirely on the Cards offensive line, despite that there has never been any indication of that.

I said this a while back and I know there were a lot of reports on it back when Manning was making his visits. That he preferred the AFC. I think thats what did us in. Manning went to a team in a cup cake division in a conference with teams he is more familiar with and, most importantly, in one where he wouldnt have to face his Superbowl defending brother until the Superbowl.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think Manning was a free agent for the first and last time in his career and was willing to listen to all parties. That more teams came involved late clearly didnt mean that the first teams he spoke to didnt impress because he ended up signing with the very first team he visited.

I dont know what was going on in the Cards heads at the time but I do know that the Kolb contract deadline put nail in the coffin on the Manning pursuit.

Where our real disconnect is your stance that Manning made his choice based entirely on the Cards offensive line, despite that there has never been any indication of that.

I said this a while back and I know there were a lot of reports on it back when Manning was making his visits. That he preferred the AFC. I think thats what did us in. Manning went to a team in a cup cake division in a conference with teams he is more familiar with and, most importantly, in one where he wouldnt have to face his Superbowl defending brother until the Superbowl.

Now you're just being intentionally selective. The report you're referring to was by Adam Schefter, the multiple reports were everyone else citing his report. On March 7th Schefter reported that Manning was going to decide "in the next week" and that he appeared to prefer the AFC to avoid Eli.

Note, the deadline for the Cards on Kolb was... wait for it... midnight on... March... 16th. Now again I defer to your expertise on numbers but it seems to me that the 16th is more than a week after the 7th. So the same source you're using for the AFC team preference said Manning intended to decide BEFORE the Cards deadline on Kolb yet the Cards pulled out.

Manning officially announced on the 19th when ESPN reported that he'd notified Denver Friday and given his agent approval to work out the final contract details. You'll note that Friday was in fact the ... 16th. Apparently he notified the Titans and 49ers on Monday the 19th that they were out after his agent notified him he was confident they could get the final deal with Denver.

So to rehash, the same day the Cards had until midnight to finalize Kolb was the day Manning decided, Schefter had reported it on March 7th. The Cards announced on March 16th that Manning was no longer an option for them and they were moving on with Kolb's bonus.

Now again you're the expert I'm just trying to keep up with your expertise here but it sure sounds to me like the Cards knew they weren't getting Manning when they pulled out? Unless Graves is just so dumb that he pulled out thinking he was getting Manning?

Note just 4 days earlier the media was reporting Denver and Arizona were the 2 favorites and SF was out. Manning visited both Denver and Arizona in a "whirlwind tour" after which Denver papers began reporting that Denver was the favorite to get Manning.

On March 15th Arizona papers reported the Cards were believed to be close to signing Levi Brown and one paper openly speculated they hoped that would enhance the Cards chances with Peyton Manning. The next day they dropped out. Maybe we should be blaming Levi not Kolb since as soon as rumors surfaced he was coming back we dropped out of the Manning derby? Or just maybe the Cards knew they weren't getting Manning and had decided keeping Levi and Kolb was, unfortunately, the best option they had?

After Manning picked there were reports he preferred Denver to raise his family, liked the weather, liked John Elway etc.

I asked K9 for an example of a player that Kolb's contract cost us, he said Manning, and I just showed you that's not true, that we had already agreed to the parameters of the contract with Manning, knew his decision was coming the same day we had the deadline on Kolb, and we withdrew. I think it's pretty clear we already knew we weren't getting him.

Maybe it wasn't the OL he said he liked the weather and the family atmosphere in Denver. But it certainly was NOT the money and NOT Kevin Kolb's contract no matter how much you and K9 want that to be true so you can blame Kolb for it. We had a very clear chance at Manning but unfortunately he left Arizona without picking us and then picked Denver.

 

[Phrazbit]

Now you're just being intentionally selective. The report you're referring to was by Adam Schefter, the multiple reports were everyone else citing his report. On March 7th Schefter reported that Manning was going to decide "in the next week" and that he appeared to prefer the AFC to avoid Eli.

Note, the deadline for the Cards on Kolb was... wait for it... midnight on... March... 16th. Now again I defer to your expertise on numbers but it seems to me that the 16th is more than a week after the 7th. So the same source you're using for the AFC team preference said Manning intended to decide BEFORE the Cards deadline on Kolb yet the Cards pulled out.

Manning officially announced on the 19th when ESPN reported that he'd notified Denver Friday and given his agent approval to work out the final contract details. You'll note that Friday was in fact the ... 16th. Apparently he notified the Titans and 49ers on Monday the 19th that they were out after his agent notified him he was confident they could get the final deal with Denver.

So to rehash, the same day the Cards had until midnight to finalize Kolb was the day Manning decided, Schefter had reported it on March 7th. The Cards announced on March 16th that Manning was no longer an option for them and they were moving on with Kolb's bonus.

Now again you're the expert I'm just trying to keep up with your expertise here but it sure sounds to me like the Cards knew they weren't getting Manning when they pulled out? Unless Graves is just so dumb that he pulled out thinking he was getting Manning?

Note just 4 days earlier the media was reporting Denver and Arizona were the 2 favorites and SF was out. Manning visited both Denver and Arizona in a "whirlwind tour" after which Denver papers began reporting that Denver was the favorite to get Manning.

On March 15th Arizona papers reported the Cards were believed to be close to signing Levi Brown and one paper openly speculated they hoped that would enhance the Cards chances with Peyton Manning. The next day they dropped out. Maybe we should be blaming Levi not Kolb since as soon as rumors surfaced he was coming back we dropped out of the Manning derby? Or just maybe the Cards knew they weren't getting Manning and had decided keeping Levi and Kolb was, unfortunately, the best option they had?

After Manning picked there were reports he preferred Denver to raise his family, liked the weather, liked John Elway etc.

I asked K9 for an example of a player that Kolb's contract cost us, he said Manning, and I just showed you that's not true, that we had already agreed to the parameters of the contract with Manning, knew his decision was coming the same day we had the deadline on Kolb, and we withdrew. I think it's pretty clear we already knew we weren't getting him.

Maybe it wasn't the OL he said he liked the weather and the family atmosphere in Denver. But it certainly was NOT the money and NOT Kevin Kolb's contract no matter how much you and K9 want that to be true so you can blame Kolb for it. We had a very clear chance at Manning but unfortunately he left Arizona without picking us and then picked Denver.

I'm being intentionally selective? If we are not being "selective" in this debate then the Broncos had a worse offensive line (4th worst sack rate in the entire league) than the Cardinals and the entire point is moot.

It slays me you are claiming that because Schefter was off by a few days on how long it would take Manning to sign then he was obviously also off base about Manning preferring the AFC. So that settles it in stone I guess, despite that there were reports that Manning prefered the AFC, it clearly didnt matter because it took him an extra couple days to pick an AFC team, and despite that there were zero reports that his choice was based on the Cardinals offensive line... that was what swung it.

Got it.

I will stop being selective.

And like I said before, I am not saying Kolb's contract entirely kept us from getting Manning (I think any NFC team had an uphill battle), but there is no doubt that the Kolb contract deadline is what ended the Cardinals pursuit. To deny that is really silly.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Anybody who thinks Kolb's contract kept the Cards from signing Manning is just looking to blame Kolb for something else. Denver was always the reported leader for Manning as stated by his desire to stay in the AFC.

Kolb's bonus had absolutely nothing to do with him coming to Arizona. Do you really think if 3 days after the Cards gave Kolb his bonus that Manning called and said I want to come to the Cardinals that they wouldn't have been able to work out a contract? Get real. With the flexibility that come with the way contracts are structured and Manning's own admission that he'd take less up front money, or a "show me your healthy" contract, Kolb's bonus was and is a non-factor.

Or do people really think Manning selects the Cards and they say, "sorry we just paid Kevin's bonus, we're out". .

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm being intentionally selective? If we are not being "selective" in this debate then the Broncos had a worse offensive line (4th worst sack rate in the entire league) than the Cardinals and the entire point is moot.

It slays me you are claiming that because Schefter was off by a few days on how long it would take Manning to sign then he was obviously also off base about Manning preferring the AFC. So that settles it in stone I guess, despite that there were reports that Manning prefered the AFC, it clearly didnt matter because it took him an extra couple days to pick an AFC team, and despite that there were zero reports that his choice was based on the Cardinals offensive line... that was what swung it.

Got it.

I will stop being selective.

And like I said before, I am not saying Kolb's contract entirely kept us from getting Manning (I think any NFC team had an uphill battle), but there is no doubt that the Kolb contract deadline is what ended the Cardinals pursuit. To deny that is really silly.

You literally can't read.

1)THe Broncos had one of the BETTER OL's when they had a real QB, Orton playing, As soon as they put a FB at QB, Tebow, suddenly they started giving up sacks like crazy. Only a person who can't admit they were wrong would try and claim the sack rate for Denver's OL had anything to do with reality of how good they were. Especially what that person used the EXACT same argument to blame Kolb for the Cards high sack rate and won't concede that even with Skelton the Cards sack rate was among the worst.

2) I didn't say Schefter was wrong, I said you're using his report about the AFC as fact but completely ignoring the rest of it where Schefter made it very clear Manning was going to decide BEFORE Kolb's deadline! That is the Cards knew before the Kolb decision if they were getting Manning or not, so his deadline DID NOT end the pursuit of Manning. It ended because they knew they were not his choice. Manning decided on the 16th, he notified his agent who then contacted Denver to see if they could work out the final details. On the 19th they made it public and said they were confident the contract would be done.

It's a complete misrepresentation of the truth to say Kolb's deadline ended the pursuit, they'd already ended it when they found out they were not getting Manning.

As for the no reports about the OL swinging it again the day before the Cards pulled out the Cards media was reporting about Levi Brown and saying the Cards were hoping it might help them get Manning. Now that doesn't say the OL is the deciding factor but do you think it just MIGHT be possible that they said that because they knew that Manning had concerns about our OL?

I mean Denver's media specifically reported that Manning was asking them about OL, WR's etc.

From the reading I did last night it would seem the most likely reason Manning chose Denver was neither the OL nor Kevin Kolb, it was because Fox promised Manning he would give him complete control of his offense.

But the persistent claims by you and K9 that Kolb cost us Peyton are not true and not supported by the very rumor you're using to support your he wanted to stay in the AFC rumor. That's why i said you're being selective, you only remember the part of the rumor that agrees with you and ignored the part that proved you were flat wrong.

 

[Russ Smith]

Anybody who thinks Kolb's contract kept the Cards from signing Manning is just looking to blame Kolb for something else. Denver was always the reported leader for Manning as stated by his desire to stay in the AFC.

Kolb's bonus had absolutely nothing to do with him coming to Arizona. Do you really think if 3 days after the Cards gave Kolb his bonus that Manning called and said I want to come to the Cardinals that they wouldn't have been able to work out a contract? Get real. With the flexibility that come with the way contracts are structured and Manning's own admission that he'd take less up front money, or a "show me your healthy" contract, Kolb's bonus was and is a non-factor.

Or do people really think Manning selects the Cards and they say, "sorry we just paid Kevin's bonus, we're out". .

No the first sentence of yours is right and he knows perfectly well he's wrong it's just that he can't ever admit he's wrong about Kolb on anything.

The guy hasn't played well at all but to blame him for Manning being in Denver is just completely wrong, and he knows it but he's already stated it so now he can't go back, that's not in his DNA apparently.

It seems clear to me the reason Denver got Manning is they promised him near total control on offense, something I seriously doubt Whiz would do.

 

[Phrazbit]

But the persistent claims by you and K9 that Kolb cost us Peyton are not true and not supported by the very rumor you're using to support your he wanted to stay in the AFC rumor. That's why i said you're being selective, you only remember the part of the rumor that agrees with you and ignored the part that proved you were flat wrong.

Where am I "flat out wrong?" You accuse me of not being able to read but not once have I said "Kolb cost us Manning", I've said Kolb's contract ended the pursuit... and it is absolutely insane to claim it did not. I think even the Cardinals would agree with that. Whether their odds were slim or good, I am sure they would have kept themselves in the discussion as long as possible if not for the Kolb deadline. But the biggest reason I said that we lost Manning was that preferred to stay in the AFC... which you now agree with!!!

 

[Russ Smith]

Where am I "flat out wrong?" You accuse me of not being able to read but not once have I said "Kolb cost us Manning", I've said Kolb's contract ended the pursuit... and it is absolutely insane to claim it did not. I think even the Cardinals would agree with that. Whether their odds were slim or good, I am sure they would have kept themselves in the discussion as long as possible if not for the Kolb deadline. But the biggest reason I said that we lost Manning was that preferred to stay in the AFC... which you now agree with!!!

They weren't in the running anymore they pulled out because they knew he was going to Denver.

He told Denver on the 16th, do you really think the Cards pulled out not knowing?

Manning had the same deadline Kolb did, it wasn't set by Kolb it was set by Manning that's the day he notified Denver.

I never disagreed that Manning may have preferred the AFC, but I actaully think he picked Denver because Fox promised him he'd run the offense. Even Schefter was reporting that when it was clear Denver led. Schefter in case you forget used to work for the Denver Post, there's a reason he was the inside guy on the Manning to Denver stuff, he still has close connections to Denver.

Schefters report made it clear, Manning was going to decide before the Cards had to, they could have waited and would have waited if they actually still were in the running.

 

[moklerman]

Rodgers has been DEMONSTRABLY better than Smith since they entered the league. Did he play poorly against the Giants yes, he does have bad games. Show me the 6 TD games from Smith. Show me the games where Smith had to carry his team and did.

SF has asked Smith to try and win 2 games this year because they got behind in both of them, and SF has lost both games.

I guess then you agree that "GB lost the game because Aaron Rodgers wasn't good enough to win it."

GB asked him to continue passing like he had all season and he was over 40 points worse in passer rating.

Whereas Smith actually played about 10 points higher than his season numbers and about 25 points higher than his career average.

Seems like a double standard to excuse Rodgers for having a bad game and play well below his abilities but criticize Smith for having two pretty good games and playing above his abilities.

Much less considering a 100+ rating, 6 TD/0 INT as "terrible".

 

[sunsfan88]

Joe Flacco is not better than Phillip Rivers.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess then you agree that "GB lost the game because Aaron Rodgers wasn't good enough to win it."

GB asked him to continue passing like he had all season and he was over 40 points worse in passer rating.

Whereas Smith actually played about 10 points higher than his season numbers and about 25 points higher than his career average.

Seems like a double standard to excuse Rodgers for having a bad game and play well below his abilities but criticize Smith for having two pretty good games and playing above his abilities.

Much less considering a 100+ rating, 6 TD/0 INT as "terrible".

It's not a double standard at all. Rodgers has been out of this world good for years now, Smith never has. I can handle a bad game now and then from a guy who often carries the offense. They don't have a great OL, they don't have Gore, but Rodgers puts up huge numbers year after year.

GB asks Rodgers to win the game every week, SF asks Smith to not lose it. WHen they fall behind and they ask him to try and win it, they lose.

Smith had big plays open in the NFC title game and missed them, at least twice he didn't even throw it, that's why Cosell ripped him after watching the game film. He literally said last week Smith was great, where was that guy this week he completely folded up and refused to even try to make the plays that were there.

 

[moklerman]

It's not a double standard at all. Rodgers has been out of this world good for years now, Smith never has. I can handle a bad game now and then from a guy who often carries the offense. They don't have a great OL, they don't have Gore, but Rodgers puts up huge numbers year after year.

GB asks Rodgers to win the game every week, SF asks Smith to not lose it. WHen they fall behind and they ask him to try and win it, they lose.

Smith had big plays open in the NFC title game and missed them, at least twice he didn't even throw it, that's why Cosell ripped him after watching the game film. He literally said last week Smith was great, where was that guy this week he completely folded up and refused to even try to make the plays that were there.

Boy, for a 15-1 team, they sure had a lot of problems. I guess Rodgers literally carried them?

As far as Smith doing what he's asked, it seems that he stepped it up at least a little bit considering he averaged a little over 1 TD per game(17) passing during the regular season but put up 5 in two games vs. the Saints and Giants. Perhaps he didn't make every play possible but how much was he actually asked to do in that NYG game? He only attempted 26 passes so it's not like Harbaugh really asked him to do too much.

When they asked him to go toe-to-toe in a shootout with Brees and the Saints, he totaled 4 TD and the 49ers won. When the Niners decided to play small ball and limit his passing, he still put up 2 TD's and 0 turnovers in a 3 point loss. It's not like he totally ruined the game.

And to the point, he hasn't been terrible.

 

[Mulli]

Josh Freeman should be moved up on this list.

 

[kerouac9]

Josh Freeman should be moved up on this list.

I love me some Josh Freeman. He's definitely moving up the list. Last week, I was kicking around a scenario in my mind where we could pry Freeman out of Tampa, but I'm not sure what it would take for the Bucs to give up on him.

Is he a Franchise quarterback right now? Mmm... I don't know. But he's definitely higher up the list of guys you could win your division with.

 

[Mulli]

I love me some Josh Freeman. He's definitely moving up the list. Last week, I was kicking around a scenario in my mind where we could pry Freeman out of Tampa, but I'm not sure what it would take for the Bucs to give up on him.

Is he a Franchise quarterback right now? Mmm... I don't know. But he's definitely higher up the list of guys you could win your division with.

You know who doesn't look like a franchise QB right now? Eli Manning.

 

[kerouac9]

You know who doesn't look like a franchise QB right now? Eli Manning.

Fair enough. Neither does Phillip Rivers. But we've seen this act with the Giants before. Simmons thinks that Coughlin does this on purpose; they want to go into the playoffs as the 4-seed and play at Atlanta in Round 2.

 

[Mulli]

Fair enough. Neither does Phillip Rivers. But we've seen this act with the Giants before. Simmons thinks that Coughlin does this on purpose; they want to go into the playoffs as the 4-seed and play at Atlanta in Round 2.

Absolutely.

 

[Mulli]

Fair enough. Neither does Phillip Rivers. But we've seen this act with the Giants before. Simmons thinks that Coughlin does this on purpose; they want to go into the playoffs as the 4-seed and play at Atlanta in Round 2.

Also, if Wes Welker would stop sabotaging Brady, Brady would have the two more Super Bowls and this season's MVP wrapped up.

 

[kerouac9]

Also, if Wes Welker would stop sabotaging Brady, Brady would have the two more Super Bowls and this season's MVP wrapped up.

Passive-aggressive contract year player.