Keim/Bidwill smarter than the rest of the league or complete morons?

[football karma]

Is there some sort of science that proves this statement? lol

"geometry"

 

[Krangodnzr]

i say it cuts both ways

shorter arms can facilitate a more compact throwing motion, and, improved accuracy

longer levers magnify imprecision

its why so very many pro golfers are 5-10". long legs and arms make repetitive, dependable golf strokes harder

Someone brought up this same point on Doug and Wolf awhile back. Shorter arm, quicker release in theory.

QB hand size absolutely matter because gripping a football well is important and Murrays hands are plenty big enough.

 

[Solar7]

Unfortunately, I think they're morons.

I have it on fairly good authority that it's extremely hard to not win 8 games or more if you have an NFL-caliber QB.

I'm pretty sure that Kingsbury was the coach of the ENTIRE Texas Tech team. Just because it makes you feel bad doesn't make it not true.

Amen. Not a lot of coaches considered successful with losing records.

Maybe things turn out different here, but calling him a failure of a head coach is by no means a reach.

 

[Stout]

Thinking about this off season the Cards braintrust have taken a very unique, in fact never before tried, approach to turning around the franchise. They must think they know something others don't or, they've become complete morons. Either way, they are flying in face of convention.

Has a NFL team ever hired a college coach that's had a losing record, when his predecessor was very successful, and was just fired from his alma mater? Throw in the fact that he's never coached a down in the NFL prior to being hired. I can't think of any. I can think of highly successful coaches like Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Bud Wilkinson, and Steve Spurrier to name a few that failed miserably in the NFL. There are some college coaches that have moved to the NFL and been successful but they were also very successful, winning coaches in college.

Will KK's air raid be successful? Steve Spurrier's fun 'n gun was a bust. The run and shoot had moments but never won a Super Bowl and went to the wayside. What makes one think the "Air Raid" is any different?

Other than blind faith or hoping for the sake of hoping, why do people think KK will be a success? Not trolling but wanting legit reasons to think he'll make it. Is it based on McVay's success? McVay was a coordinator and had NFL coaching experience.

Now to the QB:
Cards were the only team that would have taken him #1.
They drafted the shortest first round QB ever with likely the shortest arms ever.
Other than Russell Wilson, who was handed a great running game ne of the all time defenses, no short, mobile QB has ever had success running a NFL offense. That still makes RW in the about .1 percentile for success at his size(note that he's still bigger). That's a lot of QB stats not favoring Murray.
The Cards are the 1st team to ever take QB's as back to back top 10 picks.
The Card are the first team to trade a top 10 QB one year after he was selected.

Why are people ok with this when it's NEVER been done? And,many people are happy about it. I hope the people are right.

To me it seems the Cards are going all in on a hold 'em game with 2 outs to hit on the river. Sure, they may get lucky and be "smarter than everyone else" but the odds sure seem to be stacked against them.

I just don't see it. I know I'll get accused of being negative but that's not the case. I hope I'm wrong but look at everything and the facts show there's a lot more to concerned about than to expect success.

And no Dvontel and Krang, to save you the time, this has nothing to do with Haskins.

Right there with you.

 

[cardpa]

i say it cuts both ways

shorter arms can facilitate a more compact throwing motion, and, improved accuracy

longer levers magnify imprecision

its why so very many pro golfers are 5-10". long legs and arms make repetitive, dependable golf strokes harder

Wrong, the average height of a PGA golfer is 71.8" or almost 6 foot tall. In addition the top pros almost all exceed 6' in height. If long legs and arms make a dependable stroke harder then Dustin Johnson shouldn't be in the top 5 in the world. In fact height and arm length give them an advantage in that they can generate faster swing speeds.

 

[slanidrac16]

But they're not inaccurate. It's impossible to say that he was a "successful" college coach. He was fired by a second-tier Big 12 program and was eventually hired as a coordinator at USC.

He had Baker Mayfield and Patrick Mahomes and somehow couldn't make it work.

I like Kliff and obviously hope that he does well, but calling him what he is isn't wrong just because it makes you feel bad.

His offenses surely worked. Now he’s got competent help and talent on defense. The biggest problem this team was offense, and some think the qb. The infusion of talent on offense is unprecedented compared to past years. How that talent develops will determine the amount of success.

 

[TJ]

People calling Kingsbury a failed college coach are myopic.

His responsibilities as a pro coach are way more limited, and it's obviously limited to what he does well, coach offensive football.

It's meant to slur/belittle the hiring.

That’s the football sample size we have to work with. He’s a sub .500 college coach. That’s not successful and fair to say he failed in the college ranks. It’s not myopic, it’s fact.

If it helps, Denny Green had an awful record at Stanford and went on to be a good NFL HC.

 

[football karma]

Wrong, the average height of a PGA golfer is 71.8" or almost 6 foot tall.

or under 6" -- shorter than other "hand-eye skill" pursuits like MLB or NHL

like all skills, no single variable determines success or not,

but i dont think its all that controversial to say "longer limbs make repetitive precision harder vs. having shorter"

another example: the best free throw shooters in the NBA are, on average, shorter than the worst free throw shooters

doesnt mean someone taller cant be a good free throw shooter ( Kevin Durant) --- but if you took a random sample of 6'10" players vs 6'3' players from the NBA and squared them off in a free throw contest -- im taking the shorter group every time

 

[dscher]

His offenses surely worked. Now he’s got competent help and talent on defense. The biggest problem this team was offense, and some think the qb. The infusion of talent on offense is unprecedented compared to past years. How that talent develops will determine the amount of success.

I agree. My view is they didn't want the guy to come in and take over the place.. they got him for Kyler Murray and to run that offense. I think the whole head coaching thing is going to be a collaborative type of thing... More so than the past. Jmo

 

[PACardsFan]

This isn't rocket science. KK has HC experience, BUT is brilliant on the offensive side of the ball & that will be his responsibility. VJ has HC experience, BUT his forte is on the defensive side of the ball. Let each of them control their side of the ball. Neither of them were great HC's, but neither were Wilksesque either. If Elway did a better job of finding Joseph a QB, he'd still be the HC. I'm not sure I've ever been more excited for the start of a season. The Coryell years were fun, but his defenses were abysmal. BA brought balance to both sides of the ball, but I never thought Palmer could get us to a SB, let alone win one. With talent on both sides of ball, we could be watching some great football the next few years.

 

[JD Robertson]

I hope they are smarter but time will tell. I personally wanted to keep Rosen and draft Q Williams. I will give Bidwill and Keim props for having a vision/plan and putting all their chips in the middle. Time will tell. As far as whether or not KK will succeed, I don't know. I do know that Bellichek and McVay both had him come in and talk offense and go over that side of the ball. McVay even wanted to hire him for the playoff run to help out. Maybe he wanted him as his OC once he knew his was getting a HC position.

At the end of the day I am rooting for the cards and will be if this thing goes up in smoke and we are picking 1st again in 2-3 years. I've rooted for them when they were still here in St. Louis and will until I leave this earth.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Well in just a few months I'm either going to be watching games like

You must be registered for see images attach

Or like

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

lots to digest, but:

what does having short arms have anything to do with playing QB?


CBus: you are basically asking the "crazy, or visionary?" question. It cant be answered today.

The Only thing short arms may enter to it is high snaps in the shotgun (not un heard of) in the league I would tend to think small hands would be more of an issue as well as height In actual defense of Murray ( who I Really dont like) his hands are about average as compared to the other QBs this year

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

That’s the football sample size we have to work with. He’s a sub .500 college coach. That’s not successful and fair to say he failed in the college ranks. It’s not myopic, it’s fact.

If it helps, Denny Green had an awful record at Stanford and went on to be a good NFL HC.

And better talent evaluator would have a much better GM than Graves

 

[NJCardFan]

I know one thing, if KK's Cards have as bad a season or worse then Wilks and KK doesn't get fired, Bidwill and Keim are going to have a heck of a time explaining why they didn't fire him. This is why significant improvement is needed. You can go 3-13 and still show improvement. If we're losing a lot of 24-20 games or 27-24 and the offense is exciting but we keep getting nipped at the end or fall short on a comeback then it's going to be an easy explain but if the offense plods along like last year with Murray making tons of mistakes and it outright terrible then they're going to have to explain why Wilks had to go but KK is going to stay. Mind you, you can't keep firing coaching year in and year out but they set a dangerous precedent last season

 

[HGC]

I know one thing, if KK's Cards have as bad a season or worse then Wilks and KK doesn't get fired, Bidwill and Keim are going to have a heck of a time explaining why they didn't fire him. This is why significant improvement is needed. You can go 3-13 and still show improvement. If we're losing a lot of 24-20 games or 27-24 and the offense is exciting but we keep getting nipped at the end or fall short on a comeback then it's going to be an easy explain but if the offense plods along like last year with Murray making tons of mistakes and it outright terrible then they're going to have to explain why Wilks had to go but KK is going to stay. Mind you, you can't keep firing coaching year in and year out but they set a dangerous precedent last season

Fire Keim before Kingsbury. Problem solved.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I know one thing, if KK's Cards have as bad a season or worse then Wilks and KK doesn't get fired, Bidwill and Keim are going to have a heck of a time explaining why they didn't fire him. This is why significant improvement is needed. You can go 3-13 and still show improvement. If we're losing a lot of 24-20 games or 27-24 and the offense is exciting but we keep getting nipped at the end or fall short on a comeback then it's going to be an easy explain but if the offense plods along like last year with Murray making tons of mistakes and it outright terrible then they're going to have to explain why Wilks had to go but KK is going to stay. Mind you, you can't keep firing coaching year in and year out but they set a dangerous precedent last season

What I think we'll see is a decent defense and really streaky offense. Rookie QB, new offensive coaches, lots of young receivers.

 

[BACH]

Has a NFL team ever hired a college coach that's had a losing record, when his predecessor was very successful, and was just fired from his alma mater? Throw in the fact that he's never coached a down in the NFL prior to being hired. I can't think of any. I can think of highly successful coaches like Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Bud Wilkinson, and Steve Spurrier to name a few that failed miserably in the NFL. There are some college coaches that have moved to the NFL and been successful but they were also very successful, winning coaches in college.

Will KK's air raid be successful? Steve Spurrier's fun 'n gun was a bust. The run and shoot had moments but never won a Super Bowl and went to the wayside. What makes one think the "Air Raid" is any different?

Other than blind faith or hoping for the sake of hoping, why do people think KK will be a success? Not trolling but wanting legit reasons to think he'll make it. Is it based on McVay's success? McVay was a coordinator and had NFL coaching experience.

Now to the QB:
Cards were the only team that would have taken him #1.
They drafted the shortest first round QB ever with likely the shortest arms ever.
Other than Russell Wilson, who was handed a great running game ne of the all time defenses, no short, mobile QB has ever had success running a NFL offense. That still makes RW in the about .1 percentile for success at his size(note that he's still bigger). That's a lot of QB stats not favoring Murray.
The Cards are the 1st team to ever take QB's as back to back top 10 picks.
The Card are the first team to trade a top 10 QB one year after he was selected.

Why are people ok with this when it's NEVER been done? And,many people are happy about it. I hope the people are right.

To me it seems the Cards are going all in on a hold 'em game with 2 outs to hit on the river. Sure, they may get lucky and be "smarter than everyone else" but the odds sure seem to be stacked against them.

I just don't see it. I know I'll get accused of being negative but that's not the case. I hope I'm wrong but look at everything and the facts show there's a lot more to concerned about than to expect success.

And no Dvontel and Krang, to save you the time, this has nothing to do with Haskins.

Thinking about this off season the Cards braintrust have taken a very unique, in fact never before tried, approach to turning around the franchise. They must think they know something others don't or, they've become complete morons. Either way, they are flying in face of convention.

Has a NFL team ever hired a college coach that's had a losing record, when his predecessor was very successful, and was just fired from his alma mater? Throw in the fact that he's never coached a down in the NFL prior to being hired. I can't think of any. I can think of highly successful coaches like Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Bud Wilkinson, and Steve Spurrier to name a few that failed miserably in the NFL. There are some college coaches that have moved to the NFL and been successful but they were also very successful, winning coaches in college.

Will KK's air raid be successful? Steve Spurrier's fun 'n gun was a bust. The run and shoot had moments but never won a Super Bowl and went to the wayside. What makes one think the "Air Raid" is any different?

I Think you are asking the wrong question. It’s not about If the Air Raid is different? It’s about If the NFL is different. The rules and the way the game is played has changed dramaticly over the last 10 years.

Are MB and SK smarter? No. But They do have bigger balls to just take the full consequence of the Changing game.

I’m still not convinced it Will work in the NFL, But I love that the change isn’t a Half effort.

 

[PACardsFan]

I know one thing, if KK's Cards have as bad a season or worse then Wilks and KK doesn't get fired, Bidwill and Keim are going to have a heck of a time explaining why they didn't fire him. This is why significant improvement is needed. You can go 3-13 and still show improvement. If we're losing a lot of 24-20 games or 27-24 and the offense is exciting but we keep getting nipped at the end or fall short on a comeback then it's going to be an easy explain but if the offense plods along like last year with Murray making tons of mistakes and it outright terrible then they're going to have to explain why Wilks had to go but KK is going to stay. Mind you, you can't keep firing coaching year in and year out but they set a dangerous precedent last season

I understand what you're saying, but is it humanly possible for our offense to be as historically bad as it was last year? I read somewhere that the 2018 AZ Cardinals had the highest % of offensive 3 and outs in NFL history. Even Stan Gelbaugh & Tom Tupa ran more productive offenses. Now that is saying something. The chances that our offense under KK are as bad as last year are .0000000000000001%.

 

[NJCardFan]

I understand what you're saying, but is it humanly possible for our offense to be as historically bad as it was last year? I read somewhere that the 2018 AZ Cardinals had the highest % of offensive 3 and outs in NFL history. Even Stan Gelbaugh & Tom Tupa ran more productive offenses. Now that is saying something. The chances that our offense under KK are as bad as last year are .0000000000000001%.

It's the Cards, brother. Nothing is impossible.

 

[PACardsFan]

It's the Cards, brother. Nothing is impossible.

Amen

It's the Cards, brother. Nothing is impossible.

So you’re saying there’s a chance.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Add to this the fact that the GM built the rest of the staff and the HC was down with it.

And if it fails they will both be gone gotta say Keim has gotta be nervous bout the whole thing maybe their smart and morons but with fiasco last year, who is to say and if it fails there will be fewer head coaching candidates that want the job knowing that it's very probable their job is "One and done" thats the Real Risk they are taking here

 

[BW52]

Decent defense,rookie Qb,young WRs,streaky offense,new offensive coaches?Is that the excuse now? Funny how those didn`t work for last season.

 

[Frank The Fixer]

Decent defense,rookie Qb,young WRs,streaky offense,new offensive coaches?Is that the excuse now? Funny how those didn`t work for last season.

What do you mean that didn’t work last season? The boards been overwhelmingly supportive of Josh through all of this.

 

[cardpa]

or under 6" -- shorter than other "hand-eye skill" pursuits like MLB or NHL

like all skills, no single variable determines success or not,

but i dont think its all that controversial to say "longer limbs make repetitive precision harder vs. having shorter"

another example: the best free throw shooters in the NBA are, on average, shorter than the worst free throw shooters

doesnt mean someone taller cant be a good free throw shooter ( Kevin Durant) --- but if you took a random sample of 6'10" players vs 6'3' players from the NBA and squared them off in a free throw contest -- im taking the shorter group every time

I argue that longer limbs have almost nothing to do with repetitive precision being harder than short limbs. I believe in the NBA it has to do more with their willingness to practice and focus on shooting free throws rather than height.

https://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/pga-tour-most-productive-height-2013-2018

There is almost a foot-long variance in the height of PGA Tour winners in the last five seasons. Austin Cook, Satoshi Kodaira, Andrew Landry, Brian Harman, David Lingmerth and Tim Clark have won on the Tour at 5-7, while Patton Kizzire has done the same at 6-5.

We wondered what the most productive height on the PGA Tour has been in the last five years and what the average height is for players who have won events. To find out, we analyzed 235 PGA Tour events since the start of the 2014 season and tracked the height of the winner for each event.

Here is what we found:

You must be registered for see images

The most productive height on the PGA Tour in the last five seasons is 6 feet tall. There have been 50 events (21.3% of the PGA Tour events examined) since the start of the 2013-14 season that were won by 22 different players who are 6-feet tall.

MORE: Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson announce The Match

Jason Day did the heavy lifting for the group, winning 12 PGA Tour events, including five in 2015, while Patrick Reed (five) and Brooks Koepka (four) are also among the most successful active 6-foot golfers.

The second-most successsful height on the PGA Tour during the timeframe examined is 5-10 with 39 PGA Tour wins. Justin Thomas is the primary contributor to that win total with nine PGA Tour victories in the last three years, followed by Rory McIlroy's eight wins in the last five seasons.

The sweet spot for golfers is from 5-10 to 6-4. Golfers of each height in that range have combined for at least 15 wins since the start of the 2014 season, while there's a fall-off on either side of the range. Golfers who are 5-9 have collectively won 11 events in the last five seasons, while Patton Kizzire's two wins in that time span are the only ones by a player who is 6-5.