Keim: I expect Arians, Palmer, Fitz to return

[BigRedRage]

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2016/12/12/keim-i-expect-arians-palmer-fitz-to-return/

Monday morning update from the GM.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I find it VERY alarming that Keim thinks there is a core of players on offense.

I was doing some note taking for analyzing the current Cardinals roster. When I wrote the list for "core" players on offense, it had one name: David Johnson.

When I hear the word "core" I think 100% indispensable, so while Jared Veldheer, Mike Iupati, and DJ Humphries are starters, and keepers, I do not find them indispensable. When it comes to Carson Palmer, and Larry Fitzgerald, I see those two as band aids, that won't be around for 2018, Palmer is a good player, and Fitzgerald is a great player but they will not be part of the next window of contention for the Cardinals, whenever that may be, and are past their prime.

With the Cardinals officially out of the playoffs, with the current team's window of contention shut, there really is only one question, one issue, and one thing that matters for the Cardinals on offense, and probably the team and organization as a whole.

Who is the quarterback for the Cardinals going forward, who starts the 2018 season after Palmer retires ? Because until that is answered, nothing really matters. It sucks, but that is the NFL in the year 2016.

 

[football karma]

you have a QB -- albeit one with some ?s about him -- a still productive HOF WR, an emerging star at RB, and you have two tackles

I think the NFL is a year to year proposition. Would i prefer that Carson and Larry each be 7-9 years younger? Sure, but they arent and i dont think you can replace their production for the cap savings they represent.

 

[football karma]

it was a terrible combination :

constant pressure off the edges, plus, Suh up the gut

 

[BigRedRage]

I find it VERY alarming that Keim thinks there is a core of players on offense.

I was doing some note taking for analyzing the current Cardinals roster. When I wrote the list for "core" players on offense, it had one name: David Johnson.

When I hear the word "core" I think 100% indispensable, so while Jared Veldheer, Mike Iupati, and DJ Humphries are starters, and keepers, I do not find them indispensable. When it comes to Carson Palmer, and Larry Fitzgerald, I see those two as band aids, that won't be around for 2018, Palmer is a good player, and Fitzgerald is a great player but they will not be part of the next window of contention for the Cardinals, whenever that may be, and are past their prime.

With the Cardinals officially out of the playoffs, with the current team's window of contention shut, there really is only one question, one issue, and one thing that matters for the Cardinals on offense, and probably the team and organization as a whole.

Who is the quarterback for the Cardinals going forward, who starts the 2018 season after Palmer retires ? Because until that is answered, nothing really matters. It sucks, but that is the NFL in the year 2016.

To me, Core are players to build around.

IMO on O:
Palmer,Fitz,Johnson,Veldheer, Humphries, Iupati.

2nd tier:
John brown, jaron brown, michael floyd, JJ nelson, jermaine Gresham.

While Fitz and Palmer have very little time left, you are still planning to have them so they remain core players.

 

[Chopper0080]

Talk is good, but it is still only talk. Kiem drafted Nkemdiche despite rumors of him not "loving it". Traded for Chandler Jones despite same rumors.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Bert]

Gotta just avoid the Cards forum for a while because everything BASK is spouting is just pissing me off more.

The Kickers might need to be evaluated and if we need to make changes we will?

Wow, thanks SK, you're slowly coming around to the conclusion fans unanimously reached last season.

No mention whatsoever of coaches being held accountable. Famous Amos will be back next season folks, mark my words! BA's mantra is it's never, ever coaches fault, 'all the plays are out there, the players just aint makin em.' right?

Nevermind that our special teams coverage sucks, our return game sucks, our kicker sucks, our punter sucks, our snapper sucks, our holder sucks. The common thread in all that is Amos, yet it's always the players that get called out. We are a professional football team that cant execute an extra point without it being a catastrophe.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

you have a QB -- albeit one with some ?s about him -- a still productive HOF WR, an emerging star at RB, and you have two tackles

I think the NFL is a year to year proposition. Would i prefer that Carson and Larry each be 7-9 years younger? Sure, but they arent and i dont think you can replace their production for the cap savings they represent.

To be clear, I am not saying your get rid of Fitzgerald, and Palmer. But if you call that your "core" then that is extremely alarming, since neither will be in the NFL in 2018, and in 2017 this team is not contending. Not with the holes in this roster.

Yes, Fitzgerald and Palmer will and should be back next year, but after that ? The Cardinals better have a plan at QB and WR, because the 2016 core is going to struggle to be a .500 team, and that is not good enough.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

While Fitz and Palmer have very little time left, you are still planning to have them so they remain core players.

Have them for what ? 2017?

........maybe I am missing something. Is there some type of consensus that thinks this team, this current roster on 12/12/16, is going to contend next year ? I do not see it, not at all.

Thus to "build around" two players in Palmer and Fitzgerald doesn't make sense. You don't build around a foundation that won't be there in a little over a year.

Again, you bring them back for 2017, but they cannot be your core. They cannot be the plan going forward, cause they won't be here going forward. You bring them back in 2017, and you also bring in who is going to replace them in 2018. Heck, there replacements are more likely to be core players then two guys that will be retired in 2018.

Yes, bring back Palmer and Fitzgerald in 2017, no doubt, but DO NOT bring Palmer and Fitzgerald, and then say "well, we have our WR and QB for the next 5 years" and do nothing to prepare this team for 2018 when they are no longer here.

Replacing Palmer will be very hard, but Fitzgerald will not be replaced. And that has to be planned for, that has to be looked at. If not, then holy moly, this front office is shooting its foot off with a shotgun.

 

[BigRedRage]

Have them for what ? 2017?

........maybe I am missing something. Is there some type of consensus that thinks this team, this current roster on 12/12/16, is going to contend next year ? I do not see it, not at all.

Thus to "build around" two players in Palmer and Fitzgerald doesn't make sense. You don't build around a foundation that won't be there in a little over a year.

Again, you bring them back for 2017, but they cannot be your core. They cannot be the plan going forward, cause they won't be here going forward. You bring them back in 2017, and you also bring in who is going to replace them in 2018. Heck, there replacements are more likely to be core players then two guys that will be retired in 2018.

You should get another QB to groom and another WR to groom but they are still major players on the current team. They will still all be starters until they retire. Yes, if we retool a bit of the roster we could still contend, why not?

I am thinking it really is all just semantics of the differences in "core" definition from one person to another.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You should get another QB to groom and another WR to groom but they are still major players on the current team. They will still all be starters until they retire. Yes, if we retool a bit of the roster we could still contend, why not?

I am thinking it really is all just semantics of the differences in "core" definition from one person to another.

Agreed, on in bold.

And if you think this team can contend in 2017, then I see your point. I just do not think this team can content in 2017. WAY too many holes to fill in one offseason.

The Cardinals do not have any outside recievers, any tight ends, and any inside linebackers. They need a center, guard, 2nd cornerback on the outside.

Then there is the HUGE, GI-NORMOUS, question on defense, which is, can Tyrann Mathieu ever play up to the 14 game stint we saw in 2016, and can he do it for 4 or 5 years on a consistent basis and play in at least 14 to 16 games a year in that span. This team has a lot tied up in Mathieu and so far, it has been a disaster. For 2017 Mahieu was either hurt, or one of the worst players on the field, and that is not hyperbole, there are many that have seen Tyrann Mathieu as more of a liability out on the field this year when he has played.

The 2017 will be a very fluid year with a lot of things getting sorted. The identity of this team and organization will have to be molded that year.

Just like when Keim has his plan to get to 2015/2016, he will have to come up with another one, and it could be as soon as 2018. You are talking about having Chandler Jones, Patrick Peterson, David Johnson, Marcus Golden, DJ Humphries (possibily), and Mathieu (possibly) in their prime. Just need to build around that, and see where you are looking into the 2018 season.

Heck, you can even keep Palmer and Fitzgerald at that point, but they CANNOT be the core, they CANNOT be key players at that age, they just won't have much left in the tank.

Just my humble opinion of course.

 

[Paso Fino]

I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying this, but I still fault BASK for dumping Barkley. Yes the Bears lost again yesterday but not because of Barkley. He is an extremely accurate quarterback. John Fox said he may be another Kurt Warner. Someone who came into his own later in his career.

 

[BigRedRage]

Agreed, on in bold.

And if you think this team can contend in 2017, then I see your point. I just do not think this team can content in 2017. WAY too many holes to fill in one offseason.

The Cardinals do not have any outside recievers, any tight ends, and any inside linebackers. They need a center, guard, 2nd cornerback on the outside.

Then there is the HUGE, GI-NORMOUS, question on defense, which is, can Tyrann Mathieu ever play up to the 14 game stint we saw in 2016, and can he do it for 4 or 5 years on a consistent basis and play in at least 14 to 16 games a year in that span. This team has a lot tied up in Mathieu and so far, it has been a disaster. For 2017 Mahieu was either hurt, or one of the worst players on the field, and that is not hyperbole, there are many that have seen Tyrann Mathieu as more of a liability out on the field this year when he has played.

The 2017 will be a very fluid year with a lot of things getting sorted. The identity of this team and organization will have to be molded that year.

Just like when Keim has his plan to get to 2015/2016, he will have to come up with another one, and it could be as soon as 2018. You are talking about having Chandler Jones, Patrick Peterson, David Johnson, Marcus Golden, DJ Humphries (possibily), and Mathieu (possibly) in their prime. Just need to build around that, and see where you are looking into the 2018 season.

Heck, you can even keep Palmer and Fitzgerald at that point, but they CANNOT be the core, they CANNOT be key players at that age, they just won't have much left in the tank.

Just my humble opinion of course.

IMO, if we dont get so injured on OL and we replace our ST coach and our punter, we could absolutely contend considering we could get more help from FA and the draft to shore up CB#2, MLB, and guard

Hell, if not for all the special teams gaffes, our terrible WR core and our widespread OL injuries, we could have competed this year.

 

[BigRedRage]

I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying this, but I still fault BASK for dumping Barkley. Yes the Bears lost again yesterday but not because of Barkley. He is an extremely accurate quarterback. John Fox said he may be another Kurt Warner. Someone who came into his own later in his career.

lol

 

[Cards_Campos]

Gotta just avoid the Cards forum for a while because everything BASK is spouting is just pissing me off more.

The Kickers might need to be evaluated and if we need to make changes we will?

Wow, thanks SK, you're slowly coming around to the conclusion fans unanimously reached last season.

No mention whatsoever of coaches being held accountable. Famous Amos will be back next season folks, mark my words! BA's mantra is it's never, ever coaches fault, 'all the plays are out there, the players just aint makin em.' right?

Nevermind that our special teams coverage sucks, our return game sucks, our kicker sucks, our punter sucks, our snapper sucks, our holder sucks. The common thread in all that is Amos, yet it's always the players that get called out. We are a professional football team that cant execute an extra point without it being a catastrophe.

I'm always pissed when I say this and can't type. But I wish I could like this 1000 times.
What really bothers me....isn't that always the case when it comes to execution.?!? Meaning if I was offensive coordinator and called 35 deep passes....if the QB threw the ball perfectly and the WR out ran coverage...we would score everytime. Execution technically is always going to be at fault. The execution part which he fails.to understand in the kicking department is because we don't have the players to execute it correctly. If the snapper can't snap and the holder can't hold and the kicker can't kick.....then it's the coaches fault because why keep beating your head with the same players. Someone from the media should really dig into Arians and ask why Butler is still our punter?!? And point out the fsct his punts are beyond subpar and if he is such a great holder why is Cat missing every chip shot fg. The funny thing is with Arians. He is constantly blasting the Refs for missimg obvious calls and yet can't see his own idiocies when it comes to play calling and special teams play. Lol

 

[CFLredzoned]

Talk is good, but it is still only talk. Kiem drafted Nkemdiche despite rumors of him not "loving it". Traded for Chandler Jones despite same rumors.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Interesting. Keim says what he wants to identify is who loves it and are passionate about the game - after the season and the next three games.

"If you're not gonna compete and you don't play with passion, you're not going to be on this roster in 2017."

That's a strong statement cause Kneediche is the first name you think of when he says that.

 

[cardpa]

I'm always pissed when I say this and can't type. But I wish I could like this 1000 times.
What really bothers me....isn't that always the case when it comes to execution.?!? Meaning if I was offensive coordinator and called 35 deep passes....if the QB threw the ball perfectly and the WR out ran coverage...we would score everytime. Execution technically is always going to be at fault. The execution part which he fails.to understand in the kicking department is because we don't have the players to execute it correctly. If the snapper can't snap and the holder can't hold and the kicker can't kick.....then it's the coaches fault because why keep beating your head with the same players. Someone from the media should really dig into Arians and ask why Butler is still our punter?!? And point out the fsct his punts are beyond subpar and if he is such a great holder why is Cat missing every chip shot fg. The funny thing is with Arians. He is constantly blasting the Refs for missimg obvious calls and yet can't see his own idiocies when it comes to play calling and special teams play. Lol

Kind of sounds like the definition of insanity doesn't it. Did anyone notice he was indirectly blaming the rain for the failure of the offense on their last possession? He mentioned in his presser that as soon the Cardinals got the ball it started to pour. He mentioned it more than once. Guess it wasn't raining on the Dolphins.

 

[Reign Blood]

Gotta just avoid the Cards forum for a while because everything BASK is spouting is just pissing me off more.

The Kickers might need to be evaluated and if we need to make changes we will?

Wow, thanks SK, you're slowly coming around to the conclusion fans unanimously reached last season.

No mention whatsoever of coaches being held accountable. Famous Amos will be back next season folks, mark my words! BA's mantra is it's never, ever coaches fault, 'all the plays are out there, the players just aint makin em.' right?

Nevermind that our special teams coverage sucks, our return game sucks, our kicker sucks, our punter sucks, our snapper sucks, our holder sucks. The common thread in all that is Amos, yet it's always the players that get called out. We are a professional football team that cant execute an extra point without it being a catastrophe.

I'm with ya.

 

[ajcardfan]

Agreed, on in bold.

And if you think this team can contend in 2017, then I see your point. I just do not think this team can content in 2017. WAY too many holes to fill in one offseason.

These guys will get one more run at it, whether you think they are the core or not. And, really, they should. For myself, I'd rather have a 5% at a great season next year than blowing it up and having zero.

We lost the close games this year that we won in the past three. It's not impossible to be a playoff team as soon as next year with these guys, it's those handful of plays we have to turn back around. But, age has no mercy, the end is in sight. But, one more run? yeah, they gave us the best seasons we have had other than 2008 and 2009 by a LOT. I think everyone can agree Arians teams were better overall than Whisenhunt's.

 

[Russ Smith]

These guys will get one more run at it, whether you think they are the core or not. And, really, they should. For myself, I'd rather have a 5% at a great season next year than blowing it up and having zero.

We lost the close games this year that we won in the past three. It's not impossible to be a playoff team as soon as next year with these guys, it's those handful of plays we have to turn back around. But, age has no mercy, the end is in sight. But, one more run? yeah, they gave us the best seasons we have had other than 2008 and 2009 by a LOT. I think everyone can agree Arians teams were better overall than Whisenhunt's.

That's my take too, we have to get things right in the offseason but if guys get healthy we have 2 T's and a LG, hopefully Boehm is the C next year so we need a RG and depth. We have DJ at RB we need a better backup. We have Fitz and Jaron Brown and Nelson, we need help there I don't expect John Brown is going to be the same, hope to be wrong but I don't see it. Floyd has finally proven once and for all he was a colossal mistake as a pick, every year it was he's coming into his own next year look out and then he'd be inconsistent again. This year fell flat on his face and now with the DUI he's done here. So we need at least 2 Wr's and one of them has to be at least a #2 and preferrably a #1.

I actually still like Fells and Gresham can catch the ball and I'm sure once Niklas gets healthy he'll be fine, ok I can't write that without falling off my chair laughing, we clearly need to move on from Niklas.

We need a P, we need a better long snapper. We need ILB, we need another CB. But the defense when healthy was close to really good this year it was mainly HB not being nearly 100% and the other CB's all sucking. If HB's knee is better next year he should help but we need that other CB. and if we lose CC to money obviously we need to replace him.

It's not easy but it's mostly doable if we draft well and sign the right guys.

The other way to look at it is this is a bad year to need a QB but next year might be a good one(might) so you can certainly make the argument if you don't think you're a contender next year you rebuild and hope you pick high enough to get a QB.

 

[Chopper0080]

The NFL is a year to year league. Palmer and Fitz are core players in 2017 if they come back. They are not core players for 2018, unless they come back.

 

[TJ]

To me, Core are players to build around.

IMO on O:
Palmer,Fitz,Johnson,Veldheer, Humphries, Iupati.

2nd tier:
John brown, jaron brown, michael floyd, JJ nelson, jermaine Gresham.

While Fitz and Palmer have very little time left, you are still planning to have them so they remain core players.

We have a core of players. Talent is not this team's issues. Not in the slightest.
It's the intangibles, such as preparation, mental toughness, and focus that are lacking.

 

[cardpa]

That's my take too, we have to get things right in the offseason but if guys get healthy we have 2 T's and a LG, hopefully Boehm is the C next year so we need a RG and depth. We have DJ at RB we need a better backup. We have Fitz and Jaron Brown and Nelson, we need help there I don't expect John Brown is going to be the same, hope to be wrong but I don't see it. Floyd has finally proven once and for all he was a colossal mistake as a pick, every year it was he's coming into his own next year look out and then he'd be inconsistent again. This year fell flat on his face and now with the DUI he's done here. So we need at least 2 Wr's and one of them has to be at least a #2 and preferrably a #1.

I actually still like Fells and Gresham can catch the ball and I'm sure once Niklas gets healthy he'll be fine, ok I can't write that without falling off my chair laughing, we clearly need to move on from Niklas.

We need a P, we need a better long snapper. We need ILB, we need another CB. But the defense when healthy was close to really good this year it was mainly HB not being nearly 100% and the other CB's all sucking. If HB's knee is better next year he should help but we need that other CB. and if we lose CC to money obviously we need to replace him.

It's not easy but it's mostly doable if we draft well and sign the right guys.

The other way to look at it is this is a bad year to need a QB but next year might be a good one(might) so you can certainly make the argument if you don't think you're a contender next year you rebuild and hope you pick high enough to get a QB.

Here are the LS who will be FAs in 2017

John Denney38 MIA TBD $1,150,029 UFA 0-
Zak DeOssie 32 NYG TBD $1,100,000 UFA 0-
Jon Condo 35 OAK TBD $1,066,667 UFA 0-
Greg Warren35 PIT TBD $1,065,000 UFA 0-
Don Muhlbach 35 DET TBD $1,065,000 UFA 0-
Nick Sundberg 29 WAS TBD $1,000,000 UFA 0-
Tanner Purdum32 NYJ TBD $905,000 UFA 0-
Brett Goode 32 GB TBD $885,000 UFA 0-
Thomas Gafford33 DEN TBD $885,000 UFA 0-
Justin Drescher 28 NO TBD $846,250 UFA 0-
Mike Windt

 

[JeffGollin]

Here's what worries me:

No QBOF to slide in as Palmer slides out.

Compare the talent of NO's backup linemen to ours. They have enough depth to survive a nuclear blast. We're kind of "light" in backup depth.

The CB spot opposite PP21 is kind of...er...unfilled.

Special Teams (top to bottom)

 

[sdscard4]

They better find another corner opposite PP. If not it's gonna be the same story. We had it good with Powers. I was was wanting them to resign Jones but we can fill some holes with that money. I knew we were hurtin when the best you could do was Tyvon Freaking Branch