Keim's Cardinal CBs on roster

[QuebecCard]

Moving Murphy outside would be a recipe for disaster. He's pretty good in the slot, but isn't good outside. He's 100 percent a slot guy.

If Murphy can outplay Dre Kirkpatrick it's a recipe for improved CB play.

 

[Stout]

If Murphy can outplay Dre Kirkpatrick it's a recipe for improved CB play.

That's like saying 5-day old sloppy joes is better than 2-week old ish on the shingle. "Improved" =/= good or even average. It is what it is. Keim has hosed us at the CB position. I've gone through all those stages of grief, and arrived at acceptance

 

[BritCard]

That's like saying 5-day old sloppy joes is better than 2-week old ish on the shingle. "Improved" =/= good or even average. It is what it is. Keim has hosed us at the CB position. I've gone through all those stages of grief, and arrived at acceptance

To be fair we haven't seen him there since his rookie year. He's developed a lot since then.

 

[QuebecCard]

That's like saying 5-day old sloppy joes is better than 2-week old ish on the shingle. "Improved" =/= good or even average. It is what it is. Keim has hosed us at the CB position. I've gone through all those stages of grief, and arrived at acceptance

Maybe you've gone through all the stages of grief to find out that you're actually OK, it's all in your head and you can and will go on.

 

[Stout]

Maybe you've gone through all the stages of grief to find out that you're actually OK, it's all in your head and you can and will go on.

Another stellar lack of contribution. Don't debate the topic, but rather tear down the poster.

 

[Stout]

To be fair we haven't seen him there since his rookie year. He's developed a lot since then.

Eh, maybe? Either way, I don't like banking our defense on that. At this point, we'd better hope it works out splendidly.

 

[QuebecCard]

Another stellar lack of contribution. Don't debate the topic, but rather tear down the poster.

Another "stellar" overreaction to a gentle jab but thanks for sparing me a litany of your usual frothing adjectives.

 

[cardncubfan]

That's like saying 5-day old sloppy joes is better than 2-week old ish on the shingle. "Improved" =/= good or even average. It is what it is. Keim has hosed us at the CB position. I've gone through all those stages of grief, and arrived at acceptance

To be fair sloppy joe's, like chili & spaghetti sauce, taste better with age.

 

[BritCard]

Eh, maybe? Either way, I don't like banking our defense on that. At this point, we'd better hope it works out splendidly.

I'd like to see it though. I'd like to see if our 23 year old CB can be our long term outside CB2. It would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Stout]

I'd like to see it though. I'd like to see if our 23 year old CB can be our long term outside CB2. It would solve a lot of problems.

It would, absolutely it would. I just don't want us relying on switching positions, from inside to outside, for this defense to be successful. Heck of a gamble to move him out of a successful spot.

 

[BritCard]

It would, absolutely it would. I just don't want us relying on switching positions, from inside to outside, for this defense to be successful. Heck of a gamble to move him out of a successful spot.

I think this is a push. He's had 1 and a bit seasons in the slot. He was outside a bunch of his rookie year due to suspensions and injuries. Last year was his only season inside full time and he was...ok? His PFF grade is bang average around 60 and he only played 76% of available snaps.

As I mentioned elsewhere he's the highest drafted slot in the league currently which leads me to believe they didn't intend for him to be a slot?

I don't know, as someone else suggested maybe we see him play outside in base and move inside in Nickel? It's not how I would do it but who knows. I'd like to see what he can do outside though.

 

[BigDavis75]

I think this is a push. He's had 1 and a bit seasons in the slot. He was outside a bunch of his rookie year due to suspensions and injuries. Last year was his only season inside full time and he was...ok? His PFF grade is bang average around 60 and he only played 76% of available snaps.

As I mentioned elsewhere he's the highest drafted slot in the league currently which leads me to believe they didn't intend for him to be a slot?

I don't know, as someone else suggested maybe we see him play outside in base and move inside in Nickel? It's not how I would do it but who knows. I'd like to see what he can do outside though.

As your commentary on the draft position for slots indicates, outside corner is certainly harder to find. Unless he is being clearly outperformed by one of our non-Butler corners I think it makes a lot of sense to try him outside.

 

[Solar7]

I think this is a push. He's had 1 and a bit seasons in the slot. He was outside a bunch of his rookie year due to suspensions and injuries. Last year was his only season inside full time and he was...ok? His PFF grade is bang average around 60 and he only played 76% of available snaps.

As I mentioned elsewhere he's the highest drafted slot in the league currently which leads me to believe they didn't intend for him to be a slot?

I don't know, as someone else suggested maybe we see him play outside in base and move inside in Nickel? It's not how I would do it but who knows. I'd like to see what he can do outside though.

I feel like we've disagreed on Murphy many a time and then I wonder why when I see you say this, because it kinda mirrors how I feel. Who knew?

 

[Chopper0080]

I feel like many are discounting Murphy's ability to play on the outside. He might be better in the slot, but that doesn't mean he is bad outside.

If we start the season with Butler and Murphy as our two starting CBs outside, I am absolutely fine with it.

 

[kerouac9]

I feel like many are discounting Murphy's ability to play on the outside. He might be better in the slot, but that doesn't mean he is bad outside.

If we start the season with Butler and Murphy as our two starting CBs outside, I am absolutely fine with it.

He was one of the worst outside corners in the NFL the year he played outside. There was a reason that the Cards rather played Dre Kirkpatrick outside.

 

[Chopper0080]

He was one of the worst outside corners in the NFL the year he played outside. There was a reason that the Cards rather played Dre Kirkpatrick outside.

I don't know where the stats are that highlight his coverage ability in the slot vs outside. I know you generally reference football outsiders but I am not a subscriber and don't have access. What I do have access to are sites like pro football reference and playerprofiler etc. From there I can share Murphy played 46.5% on his 2020 snaps in the slot. 68th in the NFL. He played 67% of defensive snaps. He was #4 in the NFL in target separation. #25 in receptions allowed. #19 in pass breakups. A +6.4 coverage rating which was #46 in the NFL.

So what I see is that Murphy at 23 is already a league average CB in terms of his stats. I see that he plays about half of his snaps in the slot so unless he is an absolute shut-down guy in the slot (which I have not seen) then he is better inside but not terrible outside. That is where I make my determination.

In terms of Dre Kirkpatrick getting snaps outside over him...with Vance as the DC, it doesn't mean much to me. I also saw him give snaps to guys like Vallejo, D Campbell and others at ILB over Simmons.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He was one of the worst outside corners in the NFL the year he played outside. There was a reason that the Cards rather played Dre Kirkpatrick outside.

It's shocking that a rookie corner with average athleticism would struggle on the outside.

I think it's a lot more pertinent to talk about his play LAST year, which wasn't bad.

 

[BritCard]

He was one of the worst outside corners in the NFL the year he played outside. There was a reason that the Cards rather played Dre Kirkpatrick outside.

You're not wrong but a lot of CBs are rough in year 1.

Jeff Okudah was the #3 pick and by far the best college CB in last years draft. He had a 42.5 PFF grade with a 31 coverage grade (surely 25 without the Cards game). Yikes.

Murphy was 48.3 with a 48.5 coverage grade as a rookie.

Dre last year was 49 and 46.1. So Murphy can't be worse can he?

 

[BritCard]

I don't know where the stats are that highlight his coverage ability in the slot vs outside. I know you generally reference football outsiders but I am not a subscriber and don't have access. What I do have access to are sites like pro football reference and playerprofiler etc. From there I can share Murphy played 46.5% on his 2020 snaps in the slot. 68th in the NFL. He played 67% of defensive snaps. He was #4 in the NFL in target separation. #25 in receptions allowed. #19 in pass breakups. A +6.4 coverage rating which was #46 in the NFL.

So what I see is that Murphy at 23 is already a league average CB in terms of his stats. I see that he plays about half of his snaps in the slot so unless he is an absolute shut-down guy in the slot (which I have not seen) then he is better inside but not terrible outside. That is where I make my determination.

In terms of Dre Kirkpatrick getting snaps outside over him...with Vance as the DC, it doesn't mean much to me. I also saw him give snaps to guys like Vallejo, D Campbell and others at ILB over Simmons.

That #4 at separation is elite. Only 0.8 yards.

Jalen Ramsey was 21st with 1.1. Of course Murphy is covering slower guys.

The other important factor here is that I'm sure Murphy is pushing to play outside full time. As much as GMs say how important slot corner is they are lying. Sure its important, all positions are, but there's a reason the vast majority of slots are UDFA or low round guys. And no slot is getting paid $20m a year.

Kenny Moore is the best slot in the league and he signed an $8.3m per year deal just last year.

Chris Harris then pipped him with 8.5m per as the highest paid slot.

He must be pushing to play outside with so little competition.

 

[Stout]

I feel like many are discounting Murphy's ability to play on the outside. He might be better in the slot, but that doesn't mean he is bad outside.

If we start the season with Butler and Murphy as our two starting CBs outside, I am absolutely fine with it.

He was atrocious when he was outside, so there's precedent. Plus, success on the inside in no way guarantees success if he moves outside again. Not saying he CAN'T improve out there; I'm rather asking what can be shown in favor of the (hopeful) opinion that he can be good on the outside?

 

[oaken1]

This defense can be really good.... it’s built to blitz.

you live or die by the blitz.

I read an article that said VJ was good at drawing up blitz plays.

the question is.... does he have the balls to keep calling them if we get burned a few times?

we can put eight men on the LOS and six of them can be bona fide dangerous

Golden and Baker on one side with Watt and Jones on the other with Collins and Simmons threatening the gaps in the middle
Who does the RB block? He better guess correctly

these guys could draw ten false starts a game

they decide to be a full time blitzing defense and our cornerback group is good enough

 

[Stout]

This defense can be really good.... it’s built to blitz.

you live or die by the blitz.

I read an article that said VJ was good at drawing up blitz plays.

the question is.... does he have the balls to keep calling them if we get burned a few times?

we can put eight men on the LOS and six of them can be bona fide dangerous

Golden and Baker on one side with Watt and Jones on the other with Collins and Simmons threatening the gaps in the middle
Who does the RB block? He better guess correctly

these guys could draw ten false starts a game

they decide to be a full time blitzing defense and our cornerback group is good enough

I mean, the way Keim (messed up) constituted this roster, especially defensively, there's absolutely no other choice. Our CB depth and lack of starters is so shocking we MUST get insane pressure on the QB to be successful, or even improve. If VJ and co decide to be a full-time blitzing defense it may, if the heavens align, be marginally enough to cover a really awful CB group. If they go any other route, we're toast, IMO.

 

[DVontel]

It's shocking that a rookie corner with average athleticism would struggle on the outside.

I think it's a lot more pertinent to talk about his play LAST year, which wasn't bad.

Which is more the reason to keep him in the slot. He he has a very quick twitch, but lacks long speed.

 

[Cardiac]

Weisenfus placed the Cards 11th (IIRC) in his power poll because he believes that the CB's Keim drafted will make the secondary very good, or some nonsense statement like that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I mean, the way Keim (messed up) constituted this roster, especially defensively, there's absolutely no other choice. Our CB depth and lack of starters is so shocking we MUST get insane pressure on the QB to be successful, or even improve. If VJ and co decide to be a full-time blitzing defense it may, if the heavens align, be marginally enough to cover a really awful CB group. If they go any other route, we're toast, IMO.

You think last years corners were better???

I don't. Dre Kirkpatrick was mostly awful, and Peterson wasn't good either. At worst this group is a push.