Keim's first 5 premium picks

[Buckybird]

I don't think anybody hates Niklas as a potential player. The angst is over how early he was drafted when his number one skill was as a blocker.

Ding ding ding!!!

 

[BW52]

Ding ding ding!!!

Yes we have some real dingbats here.What part of still developing player can you and your pals continue to NOT UNDERSTAND.

 

[Buckybird]

Yes we have some real dingbats here.What part of still developing player can you and your pals continue to NOT UNDERSTAND.

What part of answering the question don't you understand?

 

[BW52]

What part of answering the question don't you understand?

30 plus catches 400-500 yards several TDs.That would be a decent start.Of nobody knows how many throws will go to which receivers.I don`t and you don`t either Bucky.

 

[Buckybird]

30 plus catches 400-500 yards several TDs.That would be a decent start.Of nobody knows how many throws will go to which receivers.I don`t and you don`t either Bucky.

Hey I'm not trying to get into a pissing match trust me & sure I don't know. But given the skill players we have & what BA likes to do offensively along with Niklaus skillset, along with 2-3 TE sets, I can't envision him being much more than a 50-60 (600 yds) catch guy a season at best. This ain't Gronk, Graham, Gates or Witten we're talking about here imo

If he's that guy I don't think he's worth that 2nd rounder that's all. Personally I think Max Williams skillset blows him out of the water.

Just my opinion but we'll see by the end of 2017.

 

[BW52]

Hey I'm not trying to get into a pissing match trust me & sure I don't know. But given the skill players we have & what BA likes to do offensively along with Niklaus skillset, along with 2-3 TE sets, I can't envision him being much more than a 50-60 (600 yds) catch guy a season at best. This ain't Gronk, Graham, Gates or Witten we're talking about here imo

If he's that guy I don't think he's worth that 2nd rounder that's all. Personally I think Max Williams skillset blows him out of the water.

Just my opinion but we'll see by the end of 2017.

To each his own.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I really like Cooper and Niklas. Expect good things from both of them this year. Starters with big time flashes.

I like Bucannon too.

Minter is a bust. Huge whiff. But thats one 2nd rounder. I think the jury is out on Cooper and ESPECIALLY Niklas and Bucannon. I think Niklas is my break out guys this year and if Cooper cant do it with those guys around him? Then ill buy the bust hype. This year assuming he is healthy is the big test and I would bey hes pulling alot more and we understand why he was drafted where he was. I dont think TBD is unfair being he missed all of one season and like Honey badger was adjusting after a first dramatic injury like that.

Even discussing Humphries as a "bad" pick right now is maybe the most pointless use of time since Candy Crush.

But hey being moderate and even minded in opinion doesnt get responses and doesnt look near as sexy as having "hot takes" so.........

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Also I know it said "premium picks" but hitting big on guys like Matheiu, Ellington, and John Brown should be discussed when talking about Kiems drafting record.

Kind of like when you draft James Carpenter, Bruce Irvin, Christine Michel and Paul richardson with 4 out of your 5 "premium picks" btu also Get Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, and Russell Wilson out of those same drafts.

Unless you want to cherry pick. Then it makes total sense.

 

[kerouac9]

Really don't understand how you can draw that conclusion. The realistic picture:

Cooper - Looked great before getting injured, then stuggled to get back to football form. TBD, but dissapointment so far.
Minter - looks like a bust
Buccanon - Played out of position the entire year due to D-Wash's suspension, but showed flashes of being great.
Niklas - Injured, but looked solid in limited actions at the end of the season
Humphries- Hasn't played a down in the NFL yet. Many had him rated as the top OT in the draft. Shouldn't we let the guy play first? And evaluate him because of his play and not because you wanted another position in the first?

Niklas was on IR for the last two months of the season. Maybe you're thinking of Darren Fells. Niklas played 89 snaps in all of the 2014 season. He was only active for 7 games.

It`s pretty dumb to judge a player who had hernia surgery right before camp,then breaks his hand in camp and then gets a high ankle sprain in week 5 of the season.Do you really think Niklas was showing his true talent?I realize you and your cronies disliked the pick but give the kid a chance.This is also his 4th year playing TE.

The most important ability is availability. Don't hear a lot of tears shed for Beanie Wells on this board.

I actually liked the Niklas pick and anticipated the Cards would take him. But I think we should be skeptical when Keim is blowing the same hot air about D.J. Humphries ("we think that if he'd stayed in school a year, he would've been a Top 15 pick") that we heard with Niklas.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I really like Cooper and Niklas. Expect good things from both of them this year. Starters with big time flashes.

I like Bucannon too.

Minter is a bust. Huge whiff. But thats one 2nd rounder. I think the jury is out on Cooper and ESPECIALLY Niklas and Bucannon. I think Niklas is my break out guys this year and if Cooper cant do it with those guys around him? Then ill buy the bust hype. This year assuming he is healthy is the big test and I would bey hes pulling alot more and we understand why he was drafted where he was. I dont think TBD is unfair being he missed all of one season and like Honey badger was adjusting after a first dramatic injury like that.

Even discussing Humphries as a "bad" pick right now is maybe the most pointless use of time since Candy Crush.

But hey being moderate and even minded in opinion doesnt get responses and doesnt look near as sexy as having "hot takes" so.........

hot takes like... "book it!"

 

[kerouac9]

Also I know it said "premium picks" but hitting big on guys like Matheiu, Ellington, and John Brown should be discussed when talking about Kiems drafting record.

Kind of like when you draft James Carpenter, Bruce Irvin, Christine Michel and Paul richardson with 4 out of your 5 "premium picks" btu also Get Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, and Russell Wilson out of those same drafts.

Unless you want to cherry pick. Then it makes total sense.

Ellington has 1200 rushing yards. In two seasons.
Mathieu had a good 3/4 of a season in two years.
John Brown was 10th in receptions, 7th in yards among rookie WRs.

Outperforming low expectations is not the same as "hitting big".

 

[Cheesebeef]

Also I know it said "premium picks" but hitting big on guys like Matheiu, Ellington, and John Brown should be discussed when talking about Kiems drafting record.

problem is... those were all very good picks, but not one of them has shown to be a complete homerun yet... and our "home-run" picks have shown next to nothing, save Buc.

Kind of like when you draft James Carpenter, Bruce Irvin, Christine Michel and Paul richardson with 4 out of your 5 "premium picks" btu also Get Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, and Russell Wilson out of those same drafts.

Unless you want to cherry pick. Then it makes total sense.

actually, the above is what doesn't make sense and it's because there's no comparison between Sherman (the best CB in the game), Chancellor (one of the best S in the game) and Wilson (one of the best young QBs in the game) with Mathieu (a very good, possible great nickleback), Ellington (a very good scat back who's yet to show he can be a feature back) and John Brown (who had a solid if unspectacular rookie year, especially compared to other rookies who lit up the field). The guy you listed for the Hawks are THE best or one of the best players at their respective positions. The guys you listed for us, are nowhere close to that level of play yet.

 

[FrustratedFan04]

Cooper and Niklas pretty much got taken out in year 1 with injuries

Minter looks like a solid player but not a bum by far.

Bucannon is going to be a stud

Humphries hasn't played a down yet come on guys really.

I couldn't have said it better.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Can the Cards just hire Dennis Green to do all their drafts? He was nailing them when he was here

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Ellington has 1200 rushing yards. In two seasons.
Mathieu had a good 3/4 of a season in two years.
John Brown was 10th in receptions, 7th in yards among rookie WRs.

Outperforming low expectations is not the same as "hitting big".

You or anyone else on this board should not be surprised when any/all of those guys make a Pro Bowl. They have all had flashes of "star" potential. You can fight others on the veracity of "good" of players like Minter and even Cooper as he has a lot to prove - but those 3 have shown Pro Bowl possible potential.

But the only thing that has derailed those 3 guys are injuries and lack of sample size. They may not all turn out to be stars but I would make the case all 3 are core building blocks for any winning we do in next 2-3 yrs.

And that in my opinion is hitting it "big". You may have another definition and think differently.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

problem is... those were all very good picks, but not one of them has shown to be a complete homerun yet... and our "home-run" picks have shown next to nothing, save Buc.



actually, the above is what doesn't make sense and it's because there's no comparison between Sherman (the best CB in the game), Chancellor (one of the best S in the game) and Wilson (one of the best young QBs in the game) with Mathieu (a very good, possible great nickleback), Ellington (a very good scat back who's yet to show he can be a feature back) and John Brown (who had a solid if unspectacular rookie year, especially compared to other rookies who lit up the field). The guy you listed for the Hawks are THE best or one of the best players at their respective positions. The guys you listed for us, are nowhere close to that level of play yet.

Those guys also have a 1-2 more seasons of game samples (and growth opportunity)and that doesn't even factor missed game with injuries on Ellington and Mathieu - health never being a given.

My contention is since I haven't seen enough on these guys - but enough to know over first 2 years they have high end potential with continued health and maturation. they have shown in bursts and sustained amounts of time they can be top 5 at position. So yeah the NFL is year to year let's see what we are saying about all of those same players after this year and 2017. We have premium Pro Bowl level talent in Matheiu/Ellington and maybe Brown now they just need the reps.

or maybe not. But as of now I classify those as great picks. Year 3 for both will tell how great.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Ellington has 1200 rushing yards. In two seasons.
Mathieu had a good 3/4 of a season in two years.
John Brown was 10th in receptions, 7th in yards among rookie WRs.

Outperforming low expectations is not the same as "hitting big".

Ellington was a top fantasy choice going into last year and had a top 5 rb 8 game stretch in 2014. Last year was good but he was constantly fighting Injury. Dude has singlehandedly won us games.

You would be the only one not touting Matheiu as a future star pre ACL if you want to make that case. Who knows of injury let's him
Get back but history shows it should and he seems to have it in him. His defense even last year won/saved us games.

John Brown won us 2 games last year on catches he made for TDs and his taking the top off the defense won us numerous others. He had 5 TDs as our third wR with 8 games with backup QBs. Again he won us games.

There's different ways to look at everything.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I agree these players have potential but if you can't get on the field, what good is potential? They could all blossom into solid players but, so far, they have been useless. That's all we have to go on to this point and, if things don't change, all the late round hits in the world cannot make up for missing on your top picks.

For arguments sake, let's say the Humphries battles injuries like he did in college and Golden turns out the next Cody Brown. That would be 1-6(giving Buccanon the benefit of the doubt) and that's putting your team behind the 8 ball.

On the flip side, Cooper could take the RG spot, Niklas becomes Heath Miller, Humphries seizes the LT spot, and Golden is the next James Harrison.

However, to this point, the former is more likely than the latter.

 

[juza76]

I agree these players have potential but if you can't get on the field, what good is potential? They could all blossom into solid players but, so far, they have been useless. That's all we have to go on to this point and, if things don't change, all the late round hits in the world cannot make up for missing on your top picks.

For arguments sake, let's say the Humphries battles injuries like he did in college and Golden turns out the next Cody Brown. That would be 1-6(giving Buccanon the benefit of the doubt) and that's putting your team behind the 8 ball.

On the flip side, Cooper could take the RG spot, Niklas becomes Heath Miller, Humphries seizes the LT spot, and Golden is the next James Harrison.

However, to this point, the former is more likely than the latter.

if we talk about draft keim did a poor job
i m afraid that the all the praise he recevied for being the executive of the year,turn him to be too much confident and a bit arrogant
the way he choose the prospects for each rounds,the desire to have a draft board completely different from other teams could be seen as '' hello,i do what i want cause i m the best''

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

if we talk about draft keim did a poor job
i m afraid that the all the praise he recevied for being the executive of the year,turn him to be too much confident and a bit arrogant
the way he choose the prospects for each rounds,the desire to have a draft board completely different from other teams could be seen as '' hello,i do what i want cause i m the best''

I don't know if I'd go that far. You have to believe in what, and how, you do it. I won't fault Keim for that because he's been very successful. My concern with him is that he seems to ignore, or not put much emphasis on, a player's past injury concerns. Some guys are just more injury prone than others.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I reject the premise that a GM is bad a drafting or that picks he makes can be discounted when a player he picks suffers a major injury AFTER he is drafted. If there is an injury history, ok. But if not the expectation for a GM to be able to predict that is insane. Or it is just being dishonestly used to make an argument.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I agree these players have potential but if you can't get on the field, what good is potential? They could all blossom into solid players but, so far, they have been useless. That's all we have to go on to this point and, if things don't change, all the late round hits in the world cannot make up for missing on your top picks.

For arguments sake, let's say the Humphries battles injuries like he did in college and Golden turns out the next Cody Brown. That would be 1-6(giving Buccanon the benefit of the doubt) and that's putting your team behind the 8 ball.

On the flip side, Cooper could take the RG spot, Niklas becomes Heath Miller, Humphries seizes the LT spot, and Golden is the next James Harrison.

However, to this point, the former is more likely than the latter.

I mean Matheiu, Brown, and Ellington have been useless? Really?

As for injury - With Tyrann and Ellington I wouldnt say they are injury prone. Ellington is likely better off with less touches but is still dynamic. Honey Badgers knee injury is kind of freak.

I wouldnt say one is more likley then the other. I would tell you its likely all 3 of those players make a big step this year.

Cooper and Niklas - Likely both will be starters next year and my guess is 1 or the other outplay expectations.

Golden and Humphries? I mean who the hell knows. Lets at least get through TC and Preseason before we make proclimations one way or the other.

And I didnt see anything from Deone that makes me think he is anythng but a really good starter. Time will tell.

Its okay to not have extreme opinions one way or the other. I just think bashing on Kiems drafting record after 2 drafts is silly. Especially when at the least you have game breakers drafter at WR, RB, and CB/S in those three aftermentioned guys.

The story of this draft is yet to come. All analysis is silly to me. People base "grades" on players they know and like.

If you look at talent and fit? They are all good picks. But well see.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Those guys also have a 1-2 more seasons of game samples (and growth opportunity)and that doesn't even factor missed game with injuries on Ellington and Mathieu - health never being a given.

first... you're the one who brought those guys up and made the comparison. second, even at the same moment of growth, by their second years (which is what HB/Ellington just finished, Sherman was a 1st team All-Pro and Chancellor was a Pro-Bowler. And if we're talking about Brown and first year impact, Wilson won rookie of the year and was a Pro-Bowler.

there's just no comparison whatsoever at this point between our three guys who are solid players with upside... and the Seattle guys who were very good in their positions in year 1 and dominating by year 2.

My contention is since I haven't seen enough on these guys - but enough to know over first 2 years they have high end potential with continued health and maturation. they have shown in bursts and sustained amounts of time they can be top 5 at position. So yeah the NFL is year to year let's see what we are saying about all of those same players after this year and 2017. We have premium Pro Bowl level talent in Matheiu/Ellington and maybe Brown now they just need the reps.

or maybe not. But as of now I classify those as great picks. Year 3 for both will tell how great.

I don't think anyone's doubting that they were great picks. but great picks don't necessarily translate to GREAT PLAYERS. I think we lose sight of that when guys rise above their draft status. the three guys we've talked about have the potential to be very good, but can they be dominating, franchise altering players like Sherman, Chancellor and Wilson? I think it would be tough for anyone to make that argument.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I mean Matheiu, Brown, and Ellington have been useless? Really?

As for injury - With Tyrann and Ellington I wouldnt say they are injury prone. Ellington is likely better off with less touches but is still dynamic. Honey Badgers knee injury is kind of freak.

I wouldnt say one is more likley then the other. I would tell you its likely all 3 of those players make a big step this year.

Cooper and Niklas - Likely both will be starters next year and my guess is 1 or the other outplay expectations.

Golden and Humphries? I mean who the hell knows. Lets at least get through TC and Preseason before we make proclimations one way or the other.

And I didnt see anything from Deone that makes me think he is anythng but a really good starter. Time will tell.

Its okay to not have extreme opinions one way or the other. I just think bashing on Kiems drafting record after 2 drafts is silly. Especially when at the least you have game breakers drafter at WR, RB, and CB/S in those three aftermentioned guys.

The story of this draft is yet to come. All analysis is silly to me. People base "grades" on players they know and like.

If you look at talent and fit? They are all good picks. But well see.

I was talking about his top round picks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This was blantantly obvious, but it's much easier to poke holes in your boat then bail water out his own.