Kevin Kolb = Alex Smith?

[Russ Smith]

is this the 4th or 5th episode of the k9/russsmith debate?

I think CBus means he had a similar one with K9.

I don't deny Smith has played better but I think he'd be worse here than he was there and I think Kolb would have been better there than he was here last year.

I think Harbaugh is better with QB's than Whiz, I think he's better that most of the coaches in the NFL at that. Having played the position for so long he gets the value of doing what suits the player not what you the coach like to do.

Shanahan is the same way. If you put RG3 in Indy and Luck in Washington I bet Luck's numbers would be MUCH better and RG3's much worse. Shanahan tailored that system to what RG3 does well, Luck is being thrown into a much more traditional system, with no real proven weapons and a crappy OL.

the question is in 3 years who will have benefitted the most, RG3 from the pick things up slowly style or Luck from the learn it all early style.

 

[52brandon]

The point of total QBR is to measure the the degree to which a QB contributed to scoring points for the team. The reason that Kolb is so low is because he isn't making big plays or creating a lot of scores for the team. Although like I said earlier, that is all he needs to do for this team to win.

I'd say he created both offensive TDs. The passes to Fitz and Floyd were great...

 

[Jetstream Green]

the pass to Floyd was forced and could have been picked but it was not and it was a TD thanks to Floyd with Fitz like concentration. Kolb played a GREAT game considering that the Eagles do have a good defense. The best play all day was negated for the huge gain it could have been when Fitz was called for a block in the back (or rather touching someone on the back, because he hardly even used any force), Kolb bounced out of a sack to the left (yes the left, and not the right LOL) and got it off to Roberts.

 

[kerouac9]

NOw I'm confused. Your contention is that Alex Smith's 82.1 passer rating in 2010 when he missed games due to injury and most wanted him gone was significantly better than Kevin Kolb's 81.1 passer rating in 2011 when he missed games due to injury and most here wanted him gone?

I'm clearly biased by what I saw by Alex earlier in his career before his coaches figured out what he can't do, but you're clearly biased by what he did LAST season which was after we would have been signing him. I firmly believe he wouldn't have done that here because the system here asks him to do more. We have a weaker OL, weaker rungame but because we have Fitz, the coach wants his QB to make plays.

Smith in 2010 was marginally better than Kolb in 2011, but in an offense that wasn't asking him to do as much. Admittedly the coaching stunk in 2010 for SF but that offense wasn't asking Smith to do that much just don't lose the games.

Everytime in his career Smith was put into a new offense and asked to actually do something, he turned the ball over a ton.

The only edge the 09 and 10 Smith had over the 11 Kolb was completion % and he played in an offense that didn't ask him to throw high risk passes. When you complete 60% of your passes but are under 7 YPA that shows you're not throwing the ball downfield.

As bad as Kolb was last year he was well over 7YPA.

And yes Kolb took a lot of bad sacks, Alex Smith is famous for taking sacks, even last year he took 44 with a good run game and good OL and not being asked to throw downfield.

You're assuming the Smith who looked so good for SF last year would have done the same thing here, I highly doubt that based on what the offense would have asked him to do.

We had what 3 safeties last year against us? Have you watched what SF does in that situation, they run the ball they do everything they can to not put Alex in a bad situation. Whiz wouldn't do that because he expects his QB to be able to operate in difficult situations.

No. I wanted Alex Smith in the 2011 offseason while we looked for a QB who could be better than average. Same performance as what we got from Kolb, much less price. Only Krang and I looked at the options available at the time and thought that we could get about the same for much, much less. Cheese liked Matt Hasselback, although I thought he was a greater injury risk, but I could see the argument.

I'm not assuming anything about Alex Smith in 2011 for San Francisco. I've said over and over that he was playing over his head and would have to come back to earth eventually. My argument for the last two years has been that Alex Smith at $4 million per year and no draft pick compensation >>>>> Kevin Kolb at $10 million per year + draft pick compensation. It makes no difference to me whether Alex Smith dinks and dunks his way to 1-6 or Kevin Kolb hucks and ducks his way to 1-6. If the outcomes are going to be roughly equivalent (and that's a concession that I'm willing to make for this argument that I don't believe would actually happen), then you're better off with the cheaper option across the board.

If we had Alex Smith in 2011, we'd probably have Peyton Manning in 2012.

 

[Russ Smith]

No. I wanted Alex Smith in the 2011 offseason while we looked for a QB who could be better than average. Same performance as what we got from Kolb, much less price. Only Krang and I looked at the options available at the time and thought that we could get about the same for much, much less. Cheese liked Matt Hasselback, although I thought he was a greater injury risk, but I could see the argument.

I'm not assuming anything about Alex Smith in 2011 for San Francisco. I've said over and over that he was playing over his head and would have to come back to earth eventually. My argument for the last two years has been that Alex Smith at $4 million per year and no draft pick compensation >>>>> Kevin Kolb at $10 million per year + draft pick compensation. It makes no difference to me whether Alex Smith dinks and dunks his way to 1-6 or Kevin Kolb hucks and ducks his way to 1-6. If the outcomes are going to be roughly equivalent (and that's a concession that I'm willing to make for this argument that I don't believe would actually happen), then you're better off with the cheaper option across the board.

If we had Alex Smith in 2011, we'd probably have Peyton Manning in 2012.

But again you're assuming Fitz would still be here. We don't know that to be true. Fitz clearly liked Kolb and wanted Kolb.

I know you think he was going to stay here because of the money but we don't know that.

49er fans were furious when they retained Smith before last season can you imagine the reaction here if we'd have signed Smith? Then imagine it if a couple of weeks later instead of signing an extension we were told Fitz was going to play out his contract and test the market?

I don't think Manning picked Denver entirely over money I think he figured they could protect him better than we could for one and I think Elway played a big role in that decision too.

We'll never know why Fitz did what he did but I don't think the timing was a total coincidence he waited to see what the Cards did at QB.

 

[gmabel830]

If we had Alex Smith in 2011, we'd probably have Peyton Manning in 2012.

Manning and his post-surgery noodle arm wouldn't have hit Fitz for that TD yesterday.

 

[kerouac9]

But again you're assuming Fitz would still be here. We don't know that to be true. Fitz clearly liked Kolb and wanted Kolb.

I know you think he was going to stay here because of the money but we don't know that.

49er fans were furious when they retained Smith before last season can you imagine the reaction here if we'd have signed Smith? Then imagine it if a couple of weeks later instead of signing an extension we were told Fitz was going to play out his contract and test the market?

I don't think Manning picked Denver entirely over money I think he figured they could protect him better than we could for one and I think Elway played a big role in that decision too.

We'll never know why Fitz did what he did but I don't think the timing was a total coincidence he waited to see what the Cards did at QB.

But you're assuming that Fitz wouldn't have signed a contract unless we'd only signed Kolb. You don't know that, either. So let's take Fitz's extension out of the argument.

I don't know why Manning picked Denver; what I do know is that the Cards took their name out of the running because they had to do something about Kevin Kolb. Worst case scenario in that situation if we have Smith is that what happened last year to San Francisco is exactly what happens with us, and we go into the year with Skelton & Alex Smith fighting for a starting job.

Fitz couldn't have signed an extension with us because the league was in a lockout situation. The league announced the end of the lockout on July 25, Kolb is traded on July 29, Fitz signs August 20. I'm sure that he did want to see what the Cards did at QB, but I'm not comfortable with Fitz becoming general manager in exchange for his extension, either. If Whis had been able to sell Fitz on Alex Smith, then I'm sure that Fitz goes along and signs the deal. Again: Where was Fitz going to go in March 2012 that gave him a better change to win than he found here? Jacksonville? Tampa Bay? Washington? Indy, maybe? Those were the teams looking for WR help in free agency last winter.

Fitz knows his football history; he knows what happens to successful WR when they change teams and offensive systems.