Kevin Kolb how much to pay.

[Krangodnzr]

I have not been a fan of bringing Kolb into the nest but I'm warming up to the idea.

I still have a couple of concerns:

Giving up a 1st rd pick in what appears to be a QB rich draft this coming year.

This upcoming draft could become a lot weaker if Matt Barkley returns to USC. That would leave Luck and Landry Jones as the guys, and as bad as we've been, I doubt we have a shot a Luck. That mean it's really Landry Jones we'll be looking at.

What I'm excited about is the pass rushers; those two from UNC are animals, and one Paige-Moss has the look of a 3-4 OLB conversion, Demarcus Ware-like athlete.

Rumors are flying fast and furious but we aren't the only suitors for Kolb. At least us and the Seahawks are going to make offers. Petey likes competition so it doesn't suprise me he has tried to re-sign Hassleback and might bring in LEENART (which I don't get). Whitehurst hasn't impressed so going after Kolb (WC QB with a WC OC) makes a ton of sense.

I don't think they'll go after him; the have a longtime veteran (Hass), a solid backup with some upside that played well at the end of last year (Whitehurst) and if they bring in Leinart there isn't any reps. IMO if they resign Hass, the chance they go after Kolb is remote.

The Dolphins are really just a good QB away from competing for a playoff spot.

The Dolphins are a competitor, that is true, but I think they'll give Henne one more solid opportunity. Under the current Dolphin leadership, they've been fairly conservative other than trading for Marshall. I doubt they pull off two big player trades in a three year period. But I'll agree that they could be a competitor.

Holgrem and Reid are close and the Browns have been rumored to be in the Kolb sweepstakes. They do have an extra 1st and 4th rd pick next year that could be used to get Kolb. Maybe that's one of the reasons the Browns traded down this past draft, they wanted ammo to get Kolb.

But the Browns legitimately love Colt McCoy, and I doubt they would be willing to throw out the draft capital we could. IMO I doubt they would even throw out a 2nd rounder for Kolb. Holmgren will believe in his organization's ability to develop QBs using less draft capital. Holmgren developed Brunell, Aaron Brooks, and Hassellbeck, using later picks.

Wolfley has stated on several occasions that he KNOWS the Cards want Kolb.

I do think Kolb gets us at least 8 wins next year and probably more. We did win 5 games with DA, Hall and a VERY GREEN Skelton.

I was one who thought Reid might be pulling a Feeley on us but IIRC he didn't go on and on about how wonderful he was as he is with Kolb. Reid (IIRC) moved up to draft Kolb. He did trade McNabb and annoint Kolb as the starter. I do think he knew that Vick was improving so it wasn't the ringing endorsement that some take it for but it isn't nothing either.

I agree that it isn't smoke from Reid; the Eagles organization LEGITIMATELY loved Kevin Kolb. It's just that Michael Vick looks like lightning in a bottle and the Eagles are faced with the choice between the two players and anyone would pick Vick after his performance last season. That would leave the Eagles with using a recent 2nd round pick on Kolb and getting next to nothing for the investment, OR trading him and getting back good value.

After a bit of analysis, the only team that will offer a decent package of picks for Kolb is the Arizona Cardinals and we will be able to dictate the terms to some degree. None of the other potential suitors will match what we will pay, and they don't have enough of a need to even want to add a 1st rounder. In the end, if we want Kolb, we should be able to get him for a 2nd rounder and likely another higher pick, but no first rounders.

I'd bite on Kolb for less than a 1st rounder. He has shown enough upside and competency that he should excel in Coach Ken Whisenhunt's offense.

 

[john h]

Doesn't matter what we pay or give, if he works out it's worth it. If he doesn't Whiz is gone.

Only if Whiz is in the mix to want this guy. If Graves makes the decision why should Whiz pay the price? Graves should be the one who is gone if he picks some guy who fails.

 

[john h]

What is your "hope" for Kolb, earthsci? I mean this as an honest question: What do you think that Kolb's ceiling is?

It should come as a reminder that if we trade for Kolb and it's anything more than a mid-round pick, we're going to have to sign him to a contract extension that's in the ballpark of six years, $65 million, $28 million guaranteed, with some $32 million coming in the first three years.

Such a contract would effectively end the development of John Skelton as anything more than a #2 and future trade bait.

I really do not understand why so many see Kolb with such a high ceiling? What has he done to deserve that? He was not even a first round pick when he was drafted. Why would a smart HC want to trade aways such a great QB? At this juncture Skelton has as much a future as Kolb IMHO. If we are going after a QB it needs to be one who has shown he can win at the NFL level on a consistent basis.

 

[john h]

I put in first and third round picks, I would prefer to go lower but feel that in a bidding war we may have to give up more. Its a gamble for sure but I think he is the best one out there that will be available.

I just do not think there are that many NFL GM's who are going to be fooled by all the Kolb hype much less get into a bidding war for him.

 

[Cardiac]

.

After a bit of analysis, the only team that will offer a decent package of picks for Kolb is the Arizona Cardinals and we will be able to dictate the terms to some degree. None of the other potential suitors will match what we will pay, and they don't have enough of a need to even want to add a 1st rounder. In the end, if we want Kolb, we should be able to get him for a 2nd rounder and likely another higher pick, but no first rounders.

I'd bite on Kolb for less than a 1st rounder. He has shown enough upside and competency that he should excel in Coach Ken Whisenhunt's offense.

I pretty much agree with you except I do think the Seahawks will be after Kolb. What may change that is if the lock out continues into August, then the Hawks will push harder at Hasselback because he is more familar with the team etc.

I'm liking the idea of a 2nd pick + instead of a 1st rounder.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

With talk that some trading partners would balk at giving the Eagles a first-round pick for Kevin Kolb, there are indications that the folks in Philly believe Kolb is worth more than a first-rounder.

For starters, PhiladelphiaEagles.com is touting comments from Charley Casserly about Kolb’s trade value, with an article on the team’s official web site headlined, “Former GM: Kolb worth more than a first.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...s-kolb-as-worth-more-than-a-first-round-pick/

 

[joeshmo]

I don't think Philly gets a first round pick for him. Way to many signs point to the idea that even when it could be discussed not a single team was offering it up for Kolb.

1. Eagles are trying way to hard to push that 1st round pick value on him in the media. Reid has publicly brought it up many times, Brent Celek is bringing it up, and now their main web site has a whole article on why Kolb is worth more then just a first rounder. Eagles are trying way to hard to push this 1st rounder idea to the media, telling me they have yet to receive that phone call they want or like so far.

2. 49ers pick a QB of the future already, Miami has already hinted to the media they are out of the running for Kolb they refuse to pay a 1st round pick. That just leaves Seattle, do they have the balls to spend a 1st rounder after just spending what they did for Whitehurst a year earlier?

3. Even the Cards are leaking stories about having interest in other QB's besides Kolb.

This leads me to believe their is currently a backlash against Philly's demands right now around the league. In the end Philly either excepts something other then a 1st round pick for Kolb or they just keep him on the cheap for one more year IMO.

 

[BirdMan21]

I don't think Philly gets a first round pick for him. Way to many signs point to the idea that even when it could be discussed not a single team was offering it up for Kolb.

1. Eagles are trying way to hard to push that 1st round pick value on him in the media. Reid has publicly brought it up many times, Brent Celek is bringing it up, and now their main web site has a whole article on why Kolb is worth more then just a first rounder. Eagles are trying way to hard to push this 1st rounder idea to the media, telling me they have yet to receive that phone call they want or like so far.

You are dead on in this entire post. The bolded part is most correct from people I have spoken with. The Eagles are basically going with the mentality of trying to sell 1 car at $10mil than sell 10mil cars at $1. The problem for them now is that most of the teams that had QB questions have solved them, or at least brought someone else in for far cheaper that now the Eagles have gotta hope that someone overpays.

2. 49ers pick a QB of the future already, Miami has already hinted to the media they are out of the running for Kolb they refuse to pay a 1st round pick. That just leaves Seattle, do they have the balls to spend a 1st rounder after just spending what they did for Whitehurst a year earlier?

I have talked to a few ex players and ex coaches out on the golf course, and while some of them think Kolb has the tools to develop, they don't see why the Eagles think these teams will pay such and astronomical price for him

3. Even the Cards are leaking stories about having interest in other QB's besides Kolb.

This leads me to believe their is currently a backlash against Philly's demands right now around the league. In the end Philly either excepts something other then a 1st round pick for Kolb or they just keep him on the cheap for one more year IMO.

I know for a fact of a coach that laughed out loud when he heard what Philly was asking. With teams like Denver and Cincy asking for far less (unofficially of course, just from talking to coaches, agents and players talking on the golf courses) for players like Orton and Palmer while might not have the long term upside of Kolb (and you can't forget, Kolb isn't PROVEN but has shown flashes) the asking price is so different it would be stupid to pay what Philly wants when Orton or Palmer could be had for next to nothing comparably and Bulger is just FA $.

None of them are really great options that make me think the teams QB position would be solved for the foreseeable future and I would feel 100% sold (none have a rating of at least 98 out of 100 ), but I don't know if I wanna give up as much for Kolb with such a small sample size on him for two reasons. One, in case he ends up not developing due to talent/looking good in the Eagles system alone, or our own coaching staff is unable to develop him to the level needed to get good return on what they want for him.

 

[BirdMan21]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...s-kolb-as-worth-more-than-a-first-round-pick/

I have heard from an NFL positional coach that on draft day the Eagles wanted a young quality starter (read pro-bowl or near pro-bowl) and a 1st for Kolb/4th or a 1st and a 3rd for Kolb. So maybe Casserly is why the Eagles think they can ask for so much for Kolb.

 

[ARodg]

Any time you can trade a 1st round pick for a below average 27 year old QB, you've got to do it.

Wait what?

 

[JeffGollin]

How about a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a 3rd rounder in 2013?

Or a 2nd rounder in 2012 plus Max Hall?

 

[TJ]

This is a Q & A from John Clayton's inbox segment on espn.com

Q: There is a lot being said about the Cards being the top destination for Kevin Kolb, but there isn't much being said about what comes back. The Cards are in a weak division, and the addition of Kolb maybe makes them a legitimate playoff contender. Would the Eagles really trade Kolb for draft picks when they don't know where in the draft those picks would be?
Curran in Champaign, Ill.
A: The best option being thrown around is for the Cardinals to offer second-round choices in the next two drafts. That would be similar to the deal the Houston Texans used to acquire Matt Schaub. I like that option a lot better than immediately surrendering a first-round pick. The problem is convincing the Eagles.

If this is true, I'd do it in a heart beat. If, like Joe said, the market is diminishing based on teams like the 9ers picking up QBs in the high round of the draft, then the asking price would go down. Now the Eagles are going to want good ROI and Kolb has proven he is worth more than his 2nd round choice. Two second rounders would mean the Eagles have profited from drafting Kolb. Then again, they dont have to trade him and he can sit behind Vick for the season. But Kolb is not going to re-sign with them the following year, so it's in their best interest to get something for him and develop Mike Kafka, who the Eagles think is a viable back up, according to Sirius Radio.

 

[lobo]

I just do not think there are that many NFL GM's who are going to be fooled by all the Kolb hype much less get into a bidding war for him.

I am not sarcastic but I will seriously advise you to take a look at what you are saying and rethink your thoughts. I am not saying that you have to like the guy, but consider if you will how many teams are going after him when the gates open up and remember these guys didn't get their jobs because they were not qualified....as I have said a number of times, I hope they pay the price to land him as there is no one else availab;e who has what he offers on the whole.

 

[john h]

I pretty much agree with you except I do think the Seahawks will be after Kolb. What may change that is if the lock out continues into August, then the Hawks will push harder at Hasselback because he is more familar with the team etc.

I'm liking the idea of a 2nd pick + instead of a 1st rounder.

I can agree with you on a 2nd rounder or 3rd depending on his length of contract and pay/bonus. I still think if we could get Palmer or Hasselback I would take them first.

Would you for instance pay Kolb 5-6 mil a year on a 3 year deal plus our second rounder next year? If not what would be your top dollar? There will of course be a certain amount the Cards will not go over. Could be 2 mil a year or 6 mil a year. No one really knows. I sure would not go over a three year contract with perhaps some buyout options or some sort of incentive contract which I would like best of all. You got to love the way his team has hyped him as we and other teams including the press have joined in and will clearly drive up his price.

 

[john h]

I went with first and third because I think that's where the bidding will go.

Hey Crazy I sure do not want you as my negotiator if I am a buyer. You sound like my broker. Everything she recommends to me she poclains is going up yet my portfolio seems to be going down. She is a very nice person and probably like you. Just a little misinformed and optimistic.

 

[Cardiac]

I can agree with you on a 2nd rounder or 3rd depending on his length of contract and pay/bonus. I still think if we could get Palmer or Hasselback I would take them first.

Would you for instance pay Kolb 5-6 mil a year on a 3 year deal plus our second rounder next year? If not what would be your top dollar? There will of course be a certain amount the Cards will not go over. Could be 2 mil a year or 6 mil a year. No one really knows. I sure would not go over a three year contract with perhaps some buyout options or some sort of incentive contract which I would like best of all. You got to love the way his team has hyped him as we and other teams including the press have joined in and will clearly drive up his price.

We won't get Kolb for just a 2nd rounder. It will have to be at least a 2nd pick + more and I'm thinking it will be another 2nd rd pick.

Starting QB's can't be signed for 5-6 mil a year. I doubt we could sign Bulger for 6 mil a year let alone a young player that you just traded two 2nd rd picks for. Yes how the contract is structured will be very important.

Teams will base their compensation they are willing to give the Eagles based on their own evaluation of Kolb's talent and what the market demands.

 

[john h]

We won't get Kolb for just a 2nd rounder. It will have to be at least a 2nd pick + more and I'm thinking it will be another 2nd rd pick.

Starting QB's can't be signed for 5-6 mil a year. I doubt we could sign Bulger for 6 mil a year let alone a young player that you just traded two 2nd rd picks for. Yes how the contract is structured will be very important.

Teams will base their compensation they are willing to give the Eagles based on their own evaluation of Kolb's talent and what the market demands.

I do not think you can reasonably consider Kolb a starting QB for pay purposes. What has he started? 4 games I think. It could well be that Skelton might beat him out and he makes less than a million. The market will of course determine what he will be paid & that is why he pays the big bucks to his agent and why his team is doing all the hype.

 

[desertdawg]

Wow, 2nd rounder or less? That's funny because it will cost a lot more than that if we go Kolb. 52 people will be posting about how dumb the Cards are...probably the same ones who bitch about them being "cheap" will be up in arms because they will give and pay what it takes to succeed right now, keep Whiz and Larry here, and get back into the playoffs.

2nd rounder or less...you guys are funny, or just wishing online.

I'll be back in Phx tomorrow, 2nd rounder or less....

 

[desertdawg]

Seriously yall, Kolb beat out McNaab for the #1, he (Kolb) lost it to vick because that scumbag beat him out of the #1. Nobody expected Vick to play that well.

Kolb was drafted in what, the second round? I was all about Cam but he wouldn't have been ready this year, no QB in this draft was ready to start...and there's pretty much only one QB folks seem to think will start out of the draft next year.

I find it ridiculous. I would love to score Kolb for only our first rounder, it would show that we can, that we care, and that we will try and do better than last year's QB selection (with the exception to Skelton).

Just because a QB is better than DA is no reason to hire him, we don't need a gap QB anymore, we need to join the rest of the league and catch a QB while he is on his way up...I know, sounds scary. But Kolb represents that QB that has spent some time in the league, has shown the talent, doesn't need a year or two, and cares more about football than hotubs (Whiz guy).

Whiz will probably be on his way out with another season like taht last one, Fitz too.

My big thing is people tripping on what we pay Kolb or if we give a couple draft picks for him. So if you want the Cards to go get some cheap time filler gap QB, that's your wish. I want to bring in someone who can produce right now and make an impact for years to come...sound familiar?

 

[kerouac9]

How did Kolb "beat out McNabb" for the starting job? McNabb got traded during the offseason.

 

[Shane]

How did Kolb "beat out McNabb" for the starting job? McNabb got traded during the offseason.

I would say that the team being willing trade their franchise QB and at that point anointing Kolb as the starter the next year and that you are riding him when the season starts is close enough to beating him out even if not done on the field in actual training camp "competition"

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Wow, 2nd rounder or less? That's funny because it will cost a lot more than that if we go Kolb. 52 people will be posting about how dumb the Cards are...probably the same ones who bitch about them being "cheap" will be up in arms because they will give and pay what it takes to succeed right now, keep Whiz and Larry here, and get back into the playoffs.

2nd rounder or less...you guys are funny, or just wishing online.

I'll be back in Phx tomorrow, 2nd rounder or less....

If there was a choice for "3rd Rounder Or Less" I would have picked it. There are just too many other choices of a serviceable starting QB we can go for, when things open up, that can hold down the fort until either Skelton gets good, or we go 2-14 and draft Luck.

 

[desertdawg]

If there was a choice for "3rd Rounder Or Less" I would have picked it. There are just too many other choices of a serviceable starting QB we can go for, when things open up, that can hold down the fort until either Skelton gets good, or we go 2-14 and draft Luck.

So you want the club to go after another scrub? I like Skelton too, I consider myself one of his biggest fans. Warner won't happen again so in my eyes that's just doing what we did last year. Even if we do what we did last year, we won't be in position for Luck. It won't happen, I'm not even sure if Luck will be as highly respected next year.

Kolb has already put in some work, he's ready to go, and we have a new stable of talent. I don't know what will happen but Kolb/Skelton is a great start.

The only other QB that seems to be getting love (as a possible) from folks that I consider knowledgable(?) is Palmer. Any other QB IMO and we are back to starting over next year...with a QB with zero experience, no telling how they will do in the NFL.

I would be cool if we started Skelton who knows our playbook, if the lockout hangs too long, I think Skelton would be the best choice. If we have time to train then I'd prefer Kolb/Palmer. Playoffs.