Kidd delivers ultimatum

[callkeir]

Hey guys! I'm new to these boards. I have been a Suns fan for 20 years now, following in my father's footsteps. My brother is a trader, and a Lakers fan, but I'm sure you guys know that those two words go hand in hand in the Phoenix area.

I've been over at phxsuns.net on their message boards, but I have kinda been fed up with whats been going on over there. Constant bickering.

Anyways, I figure I might as well get right into this bickering over here as my fresh start, so here goes:

My take on the Jason Kidd situation is that, while notakiddfan may have been a tad bit overzealous and insulting in his defending Kidd, but you guys have to admit that you kinda jumped the gun this time around trying to accuse him of something of which he was not guilty. If the same New York tabloid had posted the same bit, only involving Stephon Marbury and Frank Johnson, who here wouldn't have rejected it without even giving it a second thought? I know I would've...

Yeah, there was no real proof that Kidd caused Skiles' "resignation."

Okay, I'm new to these boards, but I'm not new to the world of professional sports, and certainly not to the Phoenix Suns community. So tell me, who here actually liked Scott Skiles? No Suns fan I've ever talked to has, so I'd actually like to meet one.

And even though as we all know, Kidd had no more to do with Scott Skiles' leaving this team than did Penny Hardaway, or Clifford Robinson, or Tom Gugliota. If he did have anything to do with it, however, than shouldn't we all be praising the ground he walks on, or at least send him a big "Thank You Jason" greeting card? If Skiles hadn't left, one of three things would have surely happened by now: 1. Scott Skiles would've died from one of those veins in his head popping. 2. I would've died from an anneurism after yelling at Skiles through the tv screen for all his years as a coach. Or 3. Shawn Marion would've killed Scott Skiles for limiting his abilities on the basketball court and yelling at him too much (also after being fed up looking at his bulging veins during his pre-game speeches, during which I'm sure he bagged on Marion and the rest of the Phoenix Suns nonstop). Either way, that's too much death for me...

 

[elindholm]

Oh please.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by callkeir
Hey guys! I'm new to these boards.

What a coincidence...notakiddfan's aol im name is callkeir. :roll:

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
What a coincidence...notakiddfan's aol im name is callkeir. :roll:

ROFL

How did you even think to look at that

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=395

 

[Joe Mama]

Well, it didn't take a genius to figure that was more than just an incredible coincidence that the same day notakiddfan was banned someone supporting his stance made their first post.

Joe Mama

 

[PhxGametime]

Kidd came into league: 1994-95 SN Yearbook -

A hit-and-run charge was slapped on him in May. Soon after that, a woman sued Kidd, claiming he assaulted her during a party. Another woman filed a paternity suit against the Oakland native.

 

[Joe Mama]

This guy, Wojnarowski, is an incredibly biased New Jersey Nets and Jason Kidd fan, yet he acknowledges the problems between Scott and Kidd.

Joe Mama

http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1579560.html

Thorn's next move: Get Kidd, Scott to bury hatchet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Adrian Wojnarowski
Special to ESPN.com


Long before midnight struck on July 1 to start San Antonio's breathless courting of his star, New Jersey president Rod Thorn had a deep and detailed understanding of Jason Kidd's displeasure with Byron Scott. Behind the scenes, this drama had played itself out back to the Nets' February and March swoon, back to the nights Kidd privately described turning to his coach for counsel in crucial moments just to be met with blank stares.

More and more, Kidd aligned himself with assistant Eddie Jordan, treating him like the de facto coach. After all, Jordan designed the offense and defense, conducted the practices and mapped out the strategy. All the final decisions had to pass through Scott, who was forever the victim of a double-standard.

When the Nets won, it was Jordan's genius. When they lost, it was Scott's bumbling. It wasn't fair, but everyone bought into it, including the star player. Sometimes, Kidd dispatched his frustrations with thinly-veiled public criticisms, once suggesting the Nets craved "structure," a clear call to his coach to capture control of a spiraling season. As frustration with Scott elevated, Kidds' teammates stayed in step with him. With these Nets, the point guard sets the agenda for everything. If Kidd was down on the coach, everyone was down on the coach.


Scott, left, and Kidd must work out their differences.
For most of this past season -- remember, the greatest in Nets history, considering they made it to the sixth game of the NBA Finals -- the bottom line was unmistakable: Kidd wanted Jordan to be elevated to head coach, insisting far back in the year to people inside and outside the locker room that unless a change happened, eventually, "It's going to be (Byron) or me."

Everyone was left to wonder whether these were just idle musings or foreboding threats. Whether Kidd eventually delivered management an ultimatum on Scott this week -- a story that he and Thorn denied -- is significant, but it doesn't change the fact that Nets superiors have understood where Kidd has stands on Scott for the longest time.

As numerous sources insist and one said succinctly, Scott is a coach that "Jason just doesn't respect."

Nevertheless, the way this dirty, little Nets secret has exploded in Metropolitan New York, there was no way the Nets could act on Scott, even to keep Kidd from signing with the San Antonio Spurs. It would've been too bloody for everyone, too cold a cut for a good man like Thorn.

Considering what Kidd and his wife, Joumana, were telling people, the organization was right to believe it had marvelous odds of re-signing him. Through it all, Kidd wanted to leverage everything he could out of the Nets, whether it was personnel decisions -- pursuing Alonzo Mourning -- to post-career management opportunities with the Nets, to yes, the future of Scott as his coach.

Predictably, there were stories leaked that Kidd was leaning toward the Spurs, but few believed it was anything more than a smokescreen to inspire the illusion that he would leave unless demands were met. Now, his hand is played out. For everything that made him want to re-sign with the Nets, stay in the Metropolitan New York market, I never believed Kidd would leave for the Spurs because he no longer wanted to play for Scott. Would he suggest it? Use the fear as a bargaining chip? He had done it all year. Why not now?

If nothing else now, the Nets have to get Kidd and Scott together and, once and for all, get these issues resolved. Can they co-exist? Can this work? Why has it taken so long for this sort of summit? Even though Kidd has already made his final decision -- to stay in Jersey -- Thorn has a chance to broker a peace with the coach and star.

All along, there was one man with Scott's back in the organization, Thorn, the man responsible for hiring Scott after just two seasons as a Sacramento assistant. Across the sluggish second half, Thorn listened to Kidd and his teammates complain about the coach, but he never made a move on him. As the Nets lost a grip on the No. 1 seed in the Eastern Conference, Thorn made several lukewarm endorsements for his coach, saying Scott was doing, "fine," but clearly understanding that in the year of Kidd's free agency, the Nets couldn't afford to let the season slip away.

Jordan wanted to be a head coach in the worst way, and if he couldn't do it with the Nets, he was determined it happened somewhere else. Inside the YankeeNets empire, where CEO Lou Lamoriello has a history of crumpling up winning coaches and tossing them into the waste basket, it wouldn't have been completely out of character to do so with Scott.

Still, he and the Nets made it to the playoffs with 49 victories, and suddenly, everything changed. They were unstoppable. They played brilliant basketball, including a 10-game winning streak that thundered the Nets into the NBA Finals. Winning smoothed everything over, offering a moratorium on the soap opera that once seemed destined to tear this team apart.

Scott is still a young coach, still growing, and a compromise that finds Scott agreeable to leaning less on his staff and investing more of his own ideas and innovations into the Nets could be the beginning of a reconciliation.


And it all came crashing down after a blowout loss to the Spurs in Game 1 of the Finals, when Scott was slow to double-team Tim Duncan and stubborn on using 7-foot-2 Dikembe Mutombo. It wouldn't be just Kidd second-guessing him in news conferences, but Kenyon Martin, too. The Nets won Game 2, a victory that one published report said included Jordan calling out plays behind Scott's back on the bench, an act that reportedly led to a falling out between Scott and his assistant.

The Nets would take the series back to San Antonio, back to a Game 6. But when the Nets lost a large fourth-quarter lead, Kidd blamed his coach. Even when Martin missed an unfathomable 20 of 23 shots, Kidd was livid that Scott had left a hot Kerry Kittles off the floor for much of the Spurs run -- livid that Scott had run out of timeouts and livid that the blank stare was back on the bench.

After the game, sources described a scene in the Nets' hotel where Kidd turned to principal owner Lewis Katz and blurted, "Get rid of him" about his coach. He was even heard to say that his 4-year-old son T.J. could've done a better job coaching the final minutes. Understandably, the loss was still raw for Kidd, his emotions frayed. Still, the sentiment was real. As the scene was described, Katz listened to Kidd, looked over to Thorn and told him that such a move had his blessing.

Still, Thorn wouldn't do it. Jordan left for the Wizards, bringing another assistant, Mike O'Koren, with him. If the Nets president was going to make a move on Scott, it was too late. And it almost assuredly won't happen now.

Remember, Kidd has a history of dissatisfaction with coaches -- from Dallas to Phoenix and way back to his college coup on Lou Campanelli at Cal. Scott is still a young coach, still growing, and a compromise that finds Scott agreeable to leaning less on his staff and investing more of his own ideas and innovations into the Nets could be the beginning of a reconciliation.

There will be no coup, no bloody hands. It is too late, too unseemly and too consistent with the dysfunction and chaos that so long defined the old Nets. Everything has tumbled out of the darkness and into the light now, and with Kidd wanting to stay, everyone has to find a way to make this work. Only the future of the franchise is at stake now, only everything for the New Jersey Nets.

 

[slinslin]

Miami offered him a one-year contract with a lifetime deal to remain with the Heat in some capacity, but Mourning said he was 80% sure he was going to be a Maverick until Kidd - known for his recruiting expertise - lured the former All-Star to the Swamp. In an E-mail sent to several reporters, Dallas owner Mark Cuban said Mourning chose New Jersey for "a variety of reasons I can't go into, but foremost is that he felt he had less competition in the East."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/100167p-90578c.html

Mmm okay so far he lured former all-star broken down Penny Hardaway to Phoenix for a max contract and another former all-star broken down Alonzo Mourning for the full exemption for 4 years.

What a recruiting expertise.... Overpaying for 2 broken down players...

Alonzo is just a wuss who is scared by the competition in the west.

Chance to win it all with New Jersey??

 

[elindholm]

Well, it didn't take a genius to figure...

I beg your pardon.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by slinslin
Miami offered him a one-year contract with a lifetime deal to remain with the Heat in some capacity, but Mourning said he was 80% sure he was going to be a Maverick until Kidd - known for his recruiting expertise - lured the former All-Star to the Swamp. In an E-mail sent to several reporters, Dallas owner Mark Cuban said Mourning chose New Jersey for "a variety of reasons I can't go into, but foremost is that he felt he had less competition in the East."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/100167p-90578c.html

Mmm okay so far he lured former all-star broken down Penny Hardaway to Phoenix for a max contract and another former all-star broken down Alonzo Mourning for the full exemption for 4 years.

What a recruiting expertise.... Overpaying for 2 broken down players...

Alonzo is just a wuss who is scared by the competition in the west.

Chance to win it all with New Jersey??

He also recruited ****** Rodney Rogers last summer for New Jersey. Antonio McDyess wanted to play with him so badly that he signed for less money to play with shoot first point guard Nick Van Exel and the loser Nuggets.

If Alonzo Mourning gets sick again the New Jersey Nets will be paying is $5 million salary + $5 million in luxury tax for someone that isn't even playing.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

If Alonzo Mourning gets sick again the New Jersey Nets will be paying is $5 million salary + $5 million in luxury tax for someone that isn't even playing.

And you can add that to the $18 million they'll be spending on Mutombo, who will be barely playing, even if he's healthy.

Heck, that gives me an idea:

Phoenix gets

Dikembe Mutombo ($17,894,738, 2005)
Nets' first-round pick in 2004 or 2005 (Phoenix option)

New Jersey gets

Penny Hardaway ($13,500,000, 2006)
Bo Outlaw ($5,955,000, 2005)

Why Phoenix does it:

Money. They save a little money this season (about $1.5 million, times two because of the luxury tax), or they could add another cheap free agent with the savings. The savings in 2005-06, when Mutombo comes off (but while Hardaway is still getting paid), would be huge. That's perfect timing for an extension of Stephon Marbury's contract -- not to mention a new deal for Joe Johnson, or, for that matter, a quality free-agent shooting guard if Johnson doesn't develop. Mutombo can still provide 20 good minutes a game, and the Suns don't have to run every possession to be successful. Hardaway is an important contributor, but he's also a re-injury waiting to happen and a salary nightmare. Losing Outlaw also hurts, but given that the Suns will be in a stronger position to improve the team later with free agent additions, it's worth it. They obviously aren't competing for the title this season anyway.

Why New Jersey does it:

Jason Kidd gets to be reunited with his Backcourt 2000 running mate, and the Nets move out an enormous salary for a player who doesn't fit their system and who has just lost his spot in the starting lineup. In terms of talent, the Nets get a huge upgrade for very little immediate cost; it is only in 2005-06 that they'll have to pay the bill.

 

[JJ Slim]

Nope. No deals with the devil.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Back to the topic of this thread: Isn't Kidd a liar by his own words now?

"Either Byron Scott goes (is fired) or I go (to the Spurs or another team)." - Jason Kidd

Well, Byron's still the head coach and Kidd is staying put.

No big surprise coming from a wifebeater and all-around jerk.

 

[rkellysunsfan]

Jason Kidd never said that.

 

[JJ Slim]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
Jason Kidd never said that.

And you know this how?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
If Alonzo Mourning gets sick again the New Jersey Nets will be paying is $5 million salary + $5 million in luxury tax for someone that isn't even playing.

Joe Mama

I heard that Zo made $10 million last season, when he didn't play due to injury, but his team only paid him $4 million and insurance paid $6 million of it. I also heard that the insurance company will do the same (pay much or most of his salary if he's out for an extended period) under this new deal, making his acquisition a little less risky (financially) for the Nets.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
Back to the topic of this thread: Isn't Kidd a liar by his own words now?

Actually now Kidd and Thorn say the entire story is unfounded....NY tabloid product, if you will.


http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0710/1579087.html

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
Jason Kidd never said that.

rkellysunsfan

=

notakiddfan1

=

therealhardaway

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Actually now Kidd and Thorn say the entire story is unfounded....NY tabloid product, if you will.


http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0710/1579087.html

Thanks for that link.

Still: "Kidd reportedly saying that his son T.J. could have done a better job of coaching." is some of the biggest smack ever said if true.

 

[rkellysunsfan]

Alright stop this. Just because somebody joins this message board coincedentily after somebody else got kicked off doesn't mean that by default he has to be that person that originally got kicked off.

I actually know "notakiddfan". The whole "callkeir" thing is a long joke we have between us and a few other people. But that doesn't mean I am him, or he is me.

As far as my opinion on Jason Kidd, I think he's an a-hole who will never be a team's first option if that team expects to win a championship. Still, he's a great basketball player, and his faults in his overall character as a human being far outweight those of his on-court mantra. He is classless, he is arrogant, and most of all, he is a wife-beater. I can almost guaruntee that he no longer beats his wife, but he nevertheless has in the past and that speaks volumes about his as a person.

He did not, however, say those things about his coach most likely. The fact that he came back to NJ only means that those statements were obviously unfounded. Byron Scott is still at the helm, and Jason Kidd is signing with the Nets. Saying that that makes him a liar is quite a stretch.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
I heard that Zo made $10 million last season, when he didn't play due to injury, but his team only paid him $4 million and insurance paid $6 million of it. I also heard that the insurance company will do the same (pay much or most of his salary if he's out for an extended period) under this new deal, making his acquisition a little less risky (financially) for the Nets.

Didnt Zo make around 20 million last year?


BTW, isnt there a better banning option than just banning a user name?