Kings @ Suns Tuesday game thread 1-16-2024

[Raindog]

Yeah, I think the big takeaway here is that Vogel needed to be more flexible with his crunch time lineups, and particularly regarding Nurkic's defensive deficiencies against certain lineups in critical situations.

 

[Mainstreet]

I feel we can’t play this too long and the “death” lineup should only be used to finish games with about 3 minutes left.

Yeah, this lineup should only be used during crucial parts of the game. I still feel like the Suns need another more athletic FC.

 

[wagon mound 464]

Also, have to give Vogel due credit here, he pulled the right strings to get the team a shot to win.

I've been down on Vogel a few times, back moving KD to center was really effective. KD played tough D and on offense stayed way outside which made Sabonis weak because he wouldn't come out to guard KD. That gave the Suns more options.

Grayson Allen I can't say enough great things about except
we should be calling this the BIG FOUR. Allen was a dagger in the Kings armor and played his heart out on defense. Sign Allen to an extension before bigger offers come his way.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I'll have to go back and rewatch the 4th. The offense felt much better, not sure if that was just Kings discombobulation with 5 shooters out there or if Phoenix was doing something different compared to other 4th quarters. I know they started pretty poorly, there was one play in particular that had exactly one pass and resulted in a contested KD three that was just a terrible offensive possession.

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The biggest thing is that most of the points scored were in transition or late transition. The team is just so much more dynamic and decisive when it can get a stop and defensive rebound (or turnover).

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, this lineup should only be used during crucial parts of the game. I still feel like the Suns need another more athletic FC.

You can also plug in one of Little or Okogie in there somewhere to get a little more defense as well. Their lack of shooting isn't nearly the same liability when they are the only one on the floor that can't shoot for much.

 

[Dback Jon]

Incredible comeback - I went to bed thinking the Suns were getting blown out...

 

[Mainstreet]

You can also plug in one of Little or Okogie in there somewhere to get a little more defense as well. Their lack of shooting isn't nearly the same liability when they are the only one on the floor that can't shoot for much.

Personally, I thought the Suns needed a mobile big man for defensive purposes at the 5.

Durant provided this and he was knocking down shot after shot in the 4th quarter.

I don't think Little or Okogie fills this role. Maybe Bol Bol might work at times but I still think the Suns need to add a player at the 4/5 that is long and athletic.

A player like Duop Reath might work.

 

[Covert Rain]

Personally, I thought the Suns needed a mobile big man for defensive purposes at the 5.

Durant provided this and he was knocking down shot after shot in the 4th quarter.

I don't think Little or Okogie fills this role. Maybe Bol Bol might work at times but I still think the Suns need to add a player at the 4/5 that is long and athletic.

A player like Duop Reath might work.

I don't know much about Reath. I might have to look up highlights.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Incredible comeback - I went to bed thinking the Suns were getting blown out...

I've been rolling blunts for the 4th quarters - they've been that depressing - last night's 4th didn't start out so hot - Kings kept rolling - stole the ball and fast breaked on KD who was visibly furious

That's when Vogel called time and that's when the small ball came out

I think Vogel realized if Nurk couldn't get back on defense due to speed there was no need to keep Nurk in there for defense - especially since he wasn't doing much on offense - the rebounds were pretty nice tho

Anyway - not only can the entire small ball line up hit the 3 consistently - they can all get back on defense quickly and are all quick enough to generate turnovers - especially when they're helping each other

Our typical starting line up is very vulnerable to the fast break and to speed in general - but again - Nurk can be more than useful in the half court slower championship basketball settings

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't know much about Reath. I might have to look up highlights.

I don't think Portland would let him go but he is the type player I'd look for and Biz to a lesser extent. Reath can hit the outside shot.

 

[Covert Rain]

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The biggest thing is that most of the points scored were in transition or late transition. The team is just so much more dynamic and decisive when it can get a stop and defensive rebound (or turnover).

One of the best late runs I can remember.

 

[Ronin]

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[Hoop Head]

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I've seen that group give up, that's why I turned it off at the start of the 4th. Nice to see a big comeback but Vogel really is clueless.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've seen that group give up, that's why I turned it off at the start of the 4th. Nice to see a big comeback but Vogel really is clueless.

That lineup that closed the 4th quarter against the Kings was a big hint.

Trouble is, the Suns need more athleticism and length in the middle beyond Kevin Durant. I think this is why Bol Bol looked like a breath of fresh air.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That lineup that closed the 4th quarter against the Kings was a big hint.

Trouble is, the Suns need more athleticism and length in the middle beyond Kevin Durant. I think this is why Bol Bol looked like a breath of fresh air.

I love the group that closed the game but the five that got our comeback started when we were down 22 was great for us also.

 

[Bufalay]

So is nurk the problem?

I actually think playing Allen and Nurkic together is a huge problem defensively.

 

[Bufalay]

This game was awesome and it was fun to read this thread from the beginning this morning.

I just wanted to add that the Suns used that same lineup with Durant at center against the clippers and they sucked. So I think the utility of this lineup may be limited.

 

[Chaplin]

I actually think playing Allen and Nurkic together is a huge problem defensively.

Allen isn't nearly as bad as you make him out to be on that end.

 

[Bufalay]

Allen isn't nearly as bad as you make him out to be on that end.

I'm not making him out to be anything. I should've said that a lineup with Allen, Beal, Booker and Nurkic struggles on defense and with rebounding because they are both too slow (Nurkic) and too small (Allen, Beal, Booker).

A potential solution would be to swap out Allen or Nurkic.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Incredible comeback - I went to bed thinking the Suns were getting blown out...

Listening to local radio today and it sounds like you were not alone. Congrats Suns' fans.

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[taz02]

This game was awesome and it was fun to read this thread from the beginning this morning.

I just wanted to add that the Suns used that same lineup with Durant at center against the clippers and they sucked. So I think the utility of this lineup may be limited.

Small lineups that play fast work great, but not in the playoffs against teams with a quality big.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wasn't Durant behind the three point line?

I initially thought that as well, but he wasn't upon replay.

 

[1982baskets]

Allen isn't nearly as bad as you make him out to be on that end.

Individually Nurk and Allen both are solid starting caliber NBA players. Both are quality fourth and fifth options. But then you have to look at how they fit in with a big 3, that already plays out of position.

It's one thing if the team was built with the right stars. We've built a team with 3 SG type stars, even though Durant is fine at the 4, Book and Beal should be SGs. Naturally we don't really have a point guard that can take advantage of all the tough big screens that Nurk can set.

Grayson fits in fine on offense around the big 3. Then defensively? He's your third SG match up wise. It's tough to play defense when your perimeter unit is all SGs.

Shouldn't be lost in this, team may have won, but they were also down big. They shouldn't be down that big to begin with. The bottom line is that this team isn't that good. When a team isn't that good, players like Allen and Nurk are expendable for better fits.

Here's the holes I see (Knowing that Beal, Book and KD are going nowhere).

Nurk, Metu, Okogie, and even Goodwin provide some defense. However they provide no spacing. No spacing in today's NBA = crappy offense.

The players that provide good spacing - Allen, Gordon, maybe a Bol Bol, they are simply non-impact defensively and don't fit in. In the case of Bol Bol, he actually has 2-way potential, but he's never healthy on a consistent basis and looks fragile (doubt he can survive a deep physical playoff title run)

Sure Allen can be part of a title team's core. He proved it in Milwaukee. But the main difference is our core isn't balanced. Way too many SGs. Way too many non-athletic defensively challenged offensive players. That's why for me Allen is not an untradable piece.

 

[Muggz]

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Clearly that win was a coaching masterclass.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Individually Nurk and Allen both are solid starting caliber NBA players. Both are quality fourth and fifth options. But then you have to look at how they fit in with a big 3, that already plays out of position.

It's one thing if the team was built with the right stars. We've built a team with 3 SG type stars, even though Durant is fine at the 4, Book and Beal should be SGs. Naturally we don't really have a point guard that can take advantage of all the tough big screens that Nurk can set.

Grayson fits in fine on offense around the big 3. Then defensively? He's your third SG match up wise. It's tough to play defense when your perimeter unit is all SGs.

Shouldn't be lost in this, team may have won, but they were also down big. They shouldn't be down that big to begin with. The bottom line is that this team isn't that good. When a team isn't that good, players like Allen and Nurk are expendable for better fits.

Here's the holes I see (Knowing that Beal, Book and KD are going nowhere).

Nurk, Metu, Okogie, and even Goodwin provide some defense. However they provide no spacing. No spacing in today's NBA = crappy offense.

The players that provide good spacing - Allen, Gordon, maybe a Bol Bol, they are simply non-impact defensively and don't fit in. In the case of Bol Bol, he actually has 2-way potential, but he's never healthy on a consistent basis and looks fragile (doubt he can survive a deep physical playoff title run)

Sure Allen can be part of a title team's core. He proved it in Milwaukee. But the main difference is our core isn't balanced. Way too many SGs. Way too many non-athletic defensively challenged offensive players. That's why for me Allen is not an untradable piece.

Allen wasn’t on the Bucks when they won the championship.