Kingsbury, The World’s Only 17 Point Offensive Genius

[WisconsinCard]

eh, Kyler reads defenses fine for the most part.

Thats becoming overplayed at this point. You dont get 3600 yards passing and 26 tds in 14 games in an NFL season "playing with instincts"

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have built their HOF careers off of making incredible pre snap reads and know where to go with the football off of the first read.

Also,

Why do you have or need Kliff, an offensively focused playcaller who was called "innovative" and a "genius" by the media if you need to bring in an "outside person" to help Kyler with his supposed "inability to read defenses"

Those stats have zero to do with reading defense's. As kurt warner said QBs today are more About reading their wide receiver, then reading the coverage or certain identifying players. What they do dictates where the qb should be looking.

 

[football karma]

i think there are two things on offense that are the diff between really good and elite:

K1 is inconsistent. Not terribly so, but has stretches where reads are slow, decisions not great, etc. I believe this will correct itself with experience.

offensive line is up and down as well. still not making defenses pay for spread boxes and keying on K1 in the running game.

 

[HomerPimpson]

All I see is amazing (yes, amazing) progress. Prior to Murray/Kliff this team wasn't just bad, they were unwatchable. This offense can put up 500+ yards, Kyler can throw for 400+, 75% completion percentage at 11 yards per attempt, and yet it still feels like we didn't play well, like we left many points on the field. Every week they're putting up 30+ and we're like why didn't they put up 40+? Every week in the game day thread there's posts asking why we aren't going to Hop more. The dude was targeted 11 freaking times, caught 9, and put up 170 and a TD. That's how easy they're making this look.

(Edit: I want to add, to those comparing us to Mahomes and the Chiefs or something similar and wondering why the progression isn't the same: KC was a playoff team under Alex Smith while Mahomes learned from one of the greatest coaches of all time. It's not the same)

 

[TaylorSwift]

Those stats have zero to do with reading defense's. As kurt warner said QBs today are more About reading their wide receiver, then reading the coverage or certain identifying players. What they do dictates where the qb should be looking.

Kurt played against two of the best qbs of all time at understanding their wrs position in relation to the defense.

 

[Harry]

First comparing this to past Cardinal teams is as good for perspective as comparing them to the Browns. Having a bad history is not a sign slightly better is significant. I wouldn’t disagree the Cards were unwatchable. Like yesterday they’ve moved up to painful.

How many times do the Cards have to dominate the stats but then you look at the scoreboard and they are in danger os losing? It seems most every game. Look at the record of many of the teams they’ve lost to. Good teams may drop one of those, maybe 2, but 3. Aside beating a Buffalo on a Hail Mary & splitting with Seattle, who have they beaten. They had a soft schedule and the results reflected that. I’m not saying they haven’t improved. I’m saying they haven’t improved the things that lead to building a perennial winner. I think some of Kingsbury’s problems are personnel issues. However being a winning head coach means keeping a significant balls under control at the same time. He has too many major flaws. This would not be a playoff contender had they not expanded the playoffs. I’ve itemized most of those flaws to start this thread.

They’ve added the best receiver in the league. The QB is a year more experienced. The primary RB has been here all year, as has an effective receiving TE. On the defense the Cards brought in numerous free agents. Only a total loser of a coach would have failed to improve. That’s not Kingsbury. He’s simply overrated.

 

[HomerPimpson]

First comparing this to past Cardinal teams is as good for perspective as comparing them to the Browns. Having a bad history is not a sign slightly better is significant. I wouldn’t disagree the Cards were unwatchable. Like yesterday they’ve moved up to painful.

How many times do the Cards have to dominate the stats but then you look at the scoreboard and they are in danger os losing? It seems most every game. Look at the record of many of the teams they’ve lost to. Good teams may drop one of those, maybe 2, but 3. Aside beating a Buffalo on a Hail Mary & splitting with Seattle, who have they beaten. They had a soft schedule and the results reflected that. I’m not saying they haven’t improved. I’m saying they haven’t improved the things that lead to building a perennial winner. I think some of Kingsbury’s problems are personnel issues. However being a winning head coach means keeping a significant balls under control at the same time. He has too many major flaws. This would not be a playoff contender had they not expanded the playoffs. I’ve itemized most of those flaws to start this thread.

They’ve added the best receiver in the league. The QB is a year more experienced. The primary RB has been here all year, as has an effective receiving TE. On the defense the Cards brought in numerous free agents. Only a total loser of a coach would have failed to improve. That’s not Kingsbury. He’s simply overrated.

I hate to say it but this is garbage dude. Absolute trash. It's the Arizona Cardinals and I'm not supposed to compare to past teams? This is an Arizona Cardinals forum. To whom do you think I should compare them to? How do you pretend to evaluate a GM or coach that way?

Under Wilks our highest scoring game that season was 28 and 17. That isn't "slightly better". That's significant. Our 3rd down conversions up, red zone scoring up, ppg up, yards per game up, completion % up, I feel like I can go all day man.

This is the NFL, every week is close. I won't even make excuses for them, like one of the most injury riddled defenses in the NFL, I'm not gonna do that man

Why you're even still complaining is beyond me to be honest.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I hate to say it but this is garbage dude. Absolute trash. It's the Arizona Cardinals and I'm not supposed to compare to past teams? This is an Arizona Cardinals forum. To whom do you think I should compare them to? How do you pretend to evaluate a GM or coach that way?

Under Wilks our highest scoring game that season was 28 and 17. That isn't "slightly better". That's significant. Our 3rd down conversions up, red zone scoring up, ppg up, yards per game up, completion % up, I feel like I can go all day man.

This is the NFL, every week is close. I won't even make excuses for them, like one of the most injury riddled defenses in the NFL, I'm not gonna do that man

Why you're even still complaining is beyond me to be honest.

The Cardinals have the second best point differential in their Arizona history!!!

The anti-K1/KK crowd are basically flat earthers at this point. We've seen 13 games, plenty enough sample size to make judgements. This is probably the SECOND BEST OFFENSE THE CARDINALS HAVE HAD SINCE THEY CAME TO ARIZONA!!!

I get that this team is maddening. Kliff doesn't call a perfect game and Murray makes TONS of mistakes....but despite this the Cardinals have a pretty damn good offense! Kliff makes mistakes, but he also has to make up for all of Kyler's mistakes. Kyler makes lots mistakes, but he also has to make up for Kliff's mistakes. It's a crazy dynamic.

I believe in a fact based approach, and the facts show that the Cardinals have a top ten offense even with all the issues with the OL and receivers.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Like someone else said, it's maddening, but you got to admit it's entertaining. You sure know your alive during our games, my heart is always pounding.

 

[Chopper0080]

Any time you select atypical people for prominent positions, you are going to have those who will always spot the flaws in what they do. That is what we have done is selecting Kliff and Kyler and this is why the board is so divided about them.

There are several reasons why Kyler Murray should not work in the NFL. Height. College starts. Personality type. College offense. But he is working, even if it doesn't look pretty or the way we want it to look. (I am 100% guilty of this)

Same goes for Kliff. He absolutely has yet to call a perfect game but that goes the same for most coaches in the NFL. His style is very different from what most of us think of when we think of great coaches. His offense was billed to be something amazing and everything short of that seems like an underachievement. But, it is working even if it doesn't look the way we want it to. (I am more comfortable with Kliff than most)

We are one of the most entertaining teams to watch in the NFL. We are a league average team in the NFL. With two weeks left, we have a shot at the playoffs and even the division title. Life ain't bad folks.

 

[DVontel]

Any time you select atypical people for prominent positions, you are going to have those who will always spot the flaws in what they do. That is what we have done is selecting Kliff and Kyler and this is why the board is so divided about them.

There are several reasons why Kyler Murray should not work in the NFL. Height. College starts. Personality type. College offense. But he is working, even if it doesn't look pretty or the way we want it to look. (I am 100% guilty of this)

Same goes for Kliff. He absolutely has yet to call a perfect game but that goes the same for most coaches in the NFL. His style is very different from what most of us think of when we think of great coaches. His offense was billed to be something amazing and everything short of that seems like an underachievement. But, it is working even if it doesn't look the way we want it to. (I am more comfortable with Kliff than most)

We are one of the most entertaining teams to watch in the NFL. We are a league average team in the NFL. With two weeks left, we have a shot at the playoffs and even the division title. Life ain't bad folks.

What’s wrong with his personality type?

Seems like a bit like Rodgers. Not rah-rah, but lets his play do the talking on the field.

 

[Chopper0080]

The prototypical personality type for QBs is an extrovert. People who gain energy from communicating. An engaging personality that draws people in.

Like being 6'4, it is the established preference.

 

[football karma]

We are a league average team in the NFL. With two weeks left, we have a shot at the playoffs and even the division title. Life ain't bad folks.

id say better than average, but not great or "very good".

to quote the Athletic, which puts them 14th:

"They are a flawed team. So much of the Cardinals’ success relies on Murray doing Murray things and Hopkins doing Hopkins things. But you know what? That’s been good enough to position the Cardinals as the seven seed in the NFC. If the season ended today, Arizona would take on the Saints in the first round. Would you rather watch that matchup or see the Bears go to New Orleans? That’s what I thought. The football-viewing world needs the Cardinals in the postseason."

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Like someone else said, it's maddening, but you got to admit it's entertaining. You sure know your alive during our games, my heart is always pounding.

EXACTLY. It is why I barely get upset anymore when they lose. This team win or lose is so damn entertaining. Kyler might be the best 'must watch' player in the NFL. Sure we have lost games we should have won, and won some we should have lost. We are competitive in almost all of them. That is all the improvement I expected coming into this year so I'm riding high.

 

[football karma]

Sure we have lost games we should have won, and won some we should have lost.

fun fact:

the Cards lost two games -- MIA and NE -- where they had a 75% win prob mid Q4 or later.

they won two games -- SEA #1 and BUF -- where the opposite was true.

interestingly, they also had a 70% win prob vs BUF mid Q4 in that game ( that game was wild!)

 

[Finito]

What’s wrong with his personality type?

Seems like a bit like Rodgers. Not rah-rah, but lets his play do the talking on the field.

it’s just complaining to complain. If he was a happy go lucky jump around and celebrate guy like Cam he would be called a thug and a baby.

 

[HomerPimpson]

Imagine if he was eating W's like Jameis Winston lol

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Even the title of this thread is ridiculous. There is literally 1 team in the entire NFL that doesn't have at least 1 game of 17 or fewer points and that is the Chiefs.

I don't care how good of an offense you have, you will have a bad game every once in a while.

 

[Chopper0080]

it’s just complaining to complain. If he was a happy go lucky jump around and celebrate guy like Cam he would be called a thug and a baby.

There isn't a complaint there. It is a statement that introverted personality types are not the prototype that the league looks for in QBs. It's no different than commenting on how his height is atypical.

 

[Finito]

There isn't a complaint there. It is a statement that introverted personality types are not the prototype that the league looks for in QBs. It's no different than commenting on how his height is atypical.

how do you know he’s introverted? From what everybody says he’s a great communicator.

 

[AZ Native]

fun fact:

the Cards lost two games -- MIA and NE -- where they had a 75% win prob mid Q4 or later.

they won two games -- SEA #1 and BUF -- where the opposite was true.

interestingly, they also had a 70% win prob vs BUF mid Q4 in that game ( that game was wild!)

Stop it already. No facts allowed.

 

[Chopper0080]

how do you know he’s introverted? From what everybody says he’s a great communicator.

? The same way you evaluate any other person to determine if they are extroverted or introverted. Eye contact. Body language. His comments on his constant internal dialogue and needing to move on from things. Comfortable being alone.

Lots of indicators that point to Kyler being naturally introverted. Similarly the same way you can tell Baker Mayfield is more of an extrovert.

 

[Finito]

? The same way you evaluate any other person to determine if they are extroverted or introverted. Eye contact. Body language. His comments on his constant internal dialogue and needing to move on from things. Comfortable being alone.

Lots of indicators that point to Kyler being naturally introverted. Similarly the same way you can tell Baker Mayfield is more of an extrovert.

I mean if you feel you know him that’s great I guess.

 

[Outerlimits]

Were many people expecting this team to be elite in their second year rebuild effort?(after the Wilks year of the most atrocious football imaginable).

They were 5-10-1 last year and are currently 8-6. Regardless of whether they make the postseason, this season has been a substantial improvement in a very tough division.

Most preseason predictions for the Cardinals were around 8-8 and perhaps fighting for a wildcard playoff spot. That seems to be pretty close to what has indeed happened.

Yes, it's frustrating that we lost some close games that they should have won. It probably balances out though since they won a couple they could have easily lost.

Yes, Kliff can make some idiotic calls at times, but overall he is leading an offense that is really fun to watch and some of the plays called and execution have been very good.

They still make quite a few mistakes,(and too many penalties) but that is really not surprising for a young team in a second year rebuild effort. They look like the team I was hoping for and expecting this year. An exciting team improving but still with quite a few flaws.

 

[TaylorSwift]

I mean if you feel you know him that’s great I guess.

Look at this garbage from packers fans

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I dont get the obsession with a players body language. People handle stuff differently.

 

[HairZach]

https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-west/ar...ay-explains-why-hes-built-for-quarantine-life

This article is what made me think Kyler was an introvert. That and other articles that describe Kyler as introverted. Kliff has been pegged as an introvert too by a couple writers.