Kingsbury, The World’s Only 17 Point Offensive Genius

[football karma]

That and other articles that describe Kyler as introverted. Kliff has been pegged as an introvert too by a couple writers.

as an introvert -- my opinion is that both have many of the markers of being introverts

 

[Chopper0080]

as an introvert -- my opinion is that both have many of the markers of being introverts

and people speak like being introverted is a negative. It isn't, it just isn't what people think of when they think of top QBs. Same as QBs who are 6'1. Also, people who are introverted can show extroverted tendencies when they need to even if it isn't their "default setting".

If someone takes Kyler being referenced as an introvert as some sort of critical comment, that is someone looking for something the get worked up over.

 

[Chopper0080]

I mean if you feel you know him that’s great I guess.

I mean based on this reasoning you could argue that it is pointless to have a message board because every topic we discuss is based upon drawing conclusions and opinions based upon limited information and very little real, first-hand knowledge. Seems like a silly argument to make as you are one of those who shows up and engages in these types of conversations.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Were many people expecting this team to be elite in their second year rebuild effort?(after the Wilks year of the most atrocious football imaginable).

They were 5-10-1 last year and are currently 8-6. Regardless of whether they make the postseason, this season has been a substantial improvement in a very tough division.

Most preseason predictions for the Cardinals were around 8-8 and perhaps fighting for a wildcard playoff spot. That seems to be pretty close to what has indeed happened.

Yes, it's frustrating that we lost some close games that they should have won. It probably balances out though since they won a couple they could have easily lost.

Yes, Kliff can make some idiotic calls at times, but overall he is leading an offense that is really fun to watch and some of the plays called and execution have been very good.

They still make quite a few mistakes,(and too many penalties) but that is really not surprising for a young team in a second year rebuild effort. They look like the team I was hoping for and expecting this year. An exciting team improving but still with quite a few flaws.

Very much this. It is exactly how I felt all year, even during the lost 4 of 5 stretch.

 

[ajcardfan]

Very much this. It is exactly how I felt all year, even during the lost 4 of 5 stretch.

We beat SF in week 1 and it seemed like many people here immediately expected us to play at Super Bowl contender level every week.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

First comparing this to past Cardinal teams is as good for perspective as comparing them to the Browns. Having a bad history is not a sign slightly better is significant. I wouldn’t disagree the Cards were unwatchable. Like yesterday they’ve moved up to painful.

How many times do the Cards have to dominate the stats but then you look at the scoreboard and they are in danger os losing? It seems most every game. Look at the record of many of the teams they’ve lost to. Good teams may drop one of those, maybe 2, but 3. Aside beating a Buffalo on a Hail Mary & splitting with Seattle, who have they beaten. They had a soft schedule and the results reflected that. I’m not saying they haven’t improved. I’m saying they haven’t improved the things that lead to building a perennial winner. I think some of Kingsbury’s problems are personnel issues. However being a winning head coach means keeping a significant balls under control at the same time. He has too many major flaws. This would not be a playoff contender had they not expanded the playoffs. I’ve itemized most of those flaws to start this thread.

They’ve added the best receiver in the league. The QB is a year more experienced. The primary RB has been here all year, as has an effective receiving TE. On the defense the Cards brought in numerous free agents. Only a total loser of a coach would have failed to improve. That’s not Kingsbury. He’s simply overrated.

Point Differential
2018: -200
2019: -81
2020: 62

So, Kliff has led the team to a PD improvement of first 119, and then 143 more. That’s a 262 point improvement over 30 games, nearly 9 points better each game.

BA/Carson replacing Whis/Skelton/Kolb/Lindley improved first 162 and then only 11 (173 total first two years at the helm, or just less than 6 ppg).

Kliff is undeniably a good coach unless one thinks BA is trash. I think BA is very good, and those numbers bear that out. Kliff is better.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Point Differential
2018: -200
2019: -81
2020: 62

So, Kliff has led the team to a PD improvement of first 119, and then 143 more. That’s a 262 point improvement over 30 games, nearly 9 points better each game.

BA/Carson replacing Whis/Skelton/Kolb/Lindley improved first 162 and then only 11 (173 total first two years at the helm, or just less than 6 ppg).

Kliff is undeniably a good coach unless one thinks BA is trash. I think BA is very good, and those numbers bear that out. Kliff is better.

Kliff had 3 winning seasons out of 8 at Tech. He had Patrick Mahomes and did nothing.

Kliff hasn't dont jack in the NFL and until he does, he is not a good coach. Its disrespectful to coaches who actually had to grind it out in the league like Arians.

 

[kerouac9]

Were many people expecting this team to be elite in their second year rebuild effort?(after the Wilks year of the most atrocious football imaginable).

They were 5-10-1 last year and are currently 8-6. Regardless of whether they make the postseason, this season has been a substantial improvement in a very tough division.

Most preseason predictions for the Cardinals were around 8-8 and perhaps fighting for a wildcard playoff spot. That seems to be pretty close to what has indeed happened.

Yes, it's frustrating that we lost some close games that they should have won. It probably balances out though since they won a couple they could have easily lost.

Yes, Kliff can make some idiotic calls at times, but overall he is leading an offense that is really fun to watch and some of the plays called and execution have been very good.

They still make quite a few mistakes,(and too many penalties) but that is really not surprising for a young team in a second year rebuild effort. They look like the team I was hoping for and expecting this year. An exciting team improving but still with quite a few flaws.

There's a space between being elite and being around average. I think that a lot of people were expecting Kyler to continue to improve and the defense to get better/regress toward the mean — which would lead to a 9- or 10-win season that would put us among the playoff contenders without much of a shot to win the Super Bowl.

The next step is to actually win some games decidedly against average competition. We have eight games decided by seven points or fewer. Those games are naturally going to be decided on one or two plays, one way or the other. The only teams we've curb-stomped have been pathetic: WFT, NYG, NYJ.

We're not going to be a better team until we're putting more teams in a body bag than the Little Sisters of the Poor.

EDIT: Harry's attempts to neg Kliff's very successful offense has been a great subplot on the board this season.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Kliff has already accomplished a tremendous rebuild: he is largely responsible for turning a historically bad team into a top15 team in the league currently. That’s a significant accomplishment. It almost never happens. That is how you know it is significant.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Our preseason O/U was 7 iirc, which implies a negative PD. Kliff exceeding expectations just like he did in year 1. I like that trend.

 

[THESMEL]

Kliff had 3 winning seasons out of 8 at Tech. He had Patrick Mahomes and did nothing.

Kliff hasn't dont jack in the NFL and until he does, he is not a good coach. Its disrespectful to coaches who actually had to grind it out in the league like Arians.

KKis like wonderful compared to Wilkes! He has done well, better then I expected, at first he turned the NFL upside down with his passing schemes, it’s about the the variety of options after snap that I see. But after some nfl coaches talked down and belittle him, he did the most meaningful adjustment- he ran the god damned ball! When we run well enough to take the constant pressure off our oline, rest our defense, and take opposing defenses out of constant pass rush pass defense formations - we are a good fundamentally sound nfl football team that can compete with playoff teams. Week in and week out. Yea KK, drake and KM it’s been a pleasure to fan you!

just look at the stats of games actually won, edge, beanie, CJ, DJ and now drake - when we run effectively we open up play action and rpo - it’s been like that since the begging of earth and ain’t going to change anytime soon. No matter how loud you dispute me.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

There's a space between being elite and being around average. I think that a lot of people were expecting Kyler to continue to improve and the defense to get better/regress toward the mean — which would lead to a 9- or 10-win season that would put us among the playoff contenders without much of a shot to win the Super Bowl.

The next step is to actually win some games decidedly against average competition. We have eight games decided by seven points or fewer. Those games are naturally going to be decided on one or two plays, one way or the other. The only teams we've curb-stomped have been pathetic: WFT, NYG, NYJ.

We're not going to be a better team until we're putting more teams in a body bag than the Little Sisters of the Poor.

EDIT: Harry's attempts to neg Kliff's very successful offense has been a great subplot on the board this season.

WFT has multi-score losses to Cleveland/Rams/Ravens (healthy). That win was a quality one. The Giants were playing quite well, coming off a 4-game win streak when we played them and winning in Seattle, and have only got beat badly by SF (healthy), Cleveland, and us. That’s another quality win.

 

[Ronin]

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[dreamcastrocks]

Kliff had 3 winning seasons out of 8 at Tech. He had Patrick Mahomes and did nothing.

Kliff hasn't dont jack in the NFL and until he does, he is not a good coach. Its disrespectful to coaches who actually had to grind it out in the league like Arians.

Re-read the quote that you quoted. He LITERALLY told you what KK has done.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Re-read the quote that you quoted. He LITERALLY told you what KK has done.

It's logical malpractice to hype up a coach who was a perennial loser in college and has not even gone to the playoffs at the nfl level

 

[HairZach]

It's logical malpractice to hype up a coach who was a perennial loser in college and has not even gone to the playoffs at the nfl level

Why does college even matter here? The most important skill for a coach to win at the college level is recruiting.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Why does college even matter here? The most important skill for a coach to win at the college level is recruiting.

If college doesn't matter. You may as well hire you and I as coaches

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

If college doesn't matter. You may as well hire you and I as coaches

Idk about you but I’m not looking to replace a coach that just led a historical rebuild in two years. If we win 5 games next year, then ok, makes sense.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It's logical malpractice to hype up a coach who was a perennial loser in college and has not even gone to the playoffs at the nfl level

Well that "perennial loser" has an NFL team with a 2nd year QB and a suspect defense sitting at 8-6 with 2 games left in the season. His team has also improved in the W/L column each year that he has been in the league and that tends to suggest that he and his team are continuing to grow and get better and that is exactly what you want to see your team doing with a young QB and HC.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It's logical malpractice to hype up a coach who was a perennial loser in college and has not even gone to the playoffs at the nfl level

It's like you're plugging your ears and screaming 'La la la' instead of looking at the evidence right in front of you.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's logical malpractice to hype up a coach who was a perennial loser in college and has not even gone to the playoffs at the nfl level

Bruce Arians was a perennial loser in college prior to AZ giving him his first NFL shot. 21-39 collegiate record.

 

[ajcardfan]

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KK SUCKS!!!! TEXAS TECH!!!! 17 POINTS!!!!! CAN'T CALL PLAYS!!!!!

 

[ajcardfan]

Bruce Arians was a perennial loser in college prior to AZ giving him his first NFL shot. 21-39 collegiate record.

Facts, shmacts!

 

[Chopper0080]

I think Bruce was 61 at the time we hired him. Kliff was 39. So, we are getting someone who has 22 years less experience coaching. That might be a reason he doesn't have everything figured out yet.

 

[Chopper0080]

Now, if you want to argue that you are disappointed that Kliff has not been as impressive as Sean McVay or Sean McDermott or Brian Flores or Kyle Shannahan, I think that is a fair argument to make. To say that he has been bad is just sticking your head in the sand at this point.

However, we do need to consider that Kliff has a HC win % of .450 and Flores has % of .467 and Shanahan has % of .462.