Knicks, Amare discussing buyout.

[Covert Rain]

I'd expect their evaluation to be the same, but the difference is that the Suns would be paying Stoudemire the minimum, not $20+ million per year.

True but money would not be the big issue. It's taking time away from your young guys to give minutes to a guy whose knees could go at any time. Coupled with the fact he doesn't put you over the top.

I just don't see any logic in that move. This seems more suited for those teams with Nash where we were looking for that last guy to get us over the top. It would make more sense to make a riskier move in that context IMO.

 

[Budden]

I know I'm biased toward Amare, and my opinion probably isn't too respected on this board, but signing Amare would be awesome for the Suns. Here's why:

1. The guy can still play. I mean, he can REALLY play. I live in New York, so I watch every game, and before the Knicks fully committed to tanking about a month ago, Amare was the Knicks best player. He was only averaging about 13ppg, but every point he got, he created by himself. I've always rolled my eyes when some announcer says the old "this guy worked out with Hakeeem" about anyone else (Dwight Howard, anyone?), but Amare took those training sessions, worked on them, and incorporated a lot into his game. His moves are quick, incredibly fluid, and powerful.

2. Amare will embrace any role he is asked to do. It's actually kind of odd how little stink he puts up when he is forced to play 15 minutes a game for no reason. Most guys in the league would be somewhat upset when Quincy Acey is given his starting job at the beginning of training camp. But Amare said all the right things, worked hard, and quickly won his starting job back after about 10 games. Same thing happened last season, and the year before. And if he isn't bought out, I'm pretty sure he'll be able to outplay Lou Admudson enough to win back his job again.

3. Amare's knees aren't that bad. Sure, he's had 17 surgeries on them, but he's still really athletic. His first step is quicker than 80% of the bigs in the league, and on the pick and roll, he hasn't lost much of his vertical. His athleticism has diminished when he has to jump from a standstill, but his touch around the basket is so good that if there's anything less than maximum congestion in the lane, he can just pivot and drop it in with a baby hook or fadeaway, no problem.

 

[Chaplin]

Still don't see a good reason why this version of the Phoenix Suns would sign Amare Stoudemire. I loved the guy while he was here, but the team is in a totally different place now, and IMO there is no room for him.

 

[Mainstreet]

The reason for signing Amare is to enhance the Suns chances in the playoffs which seems so remote right now.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm going to seize this rare opportunity to agree with you Chap. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the Suns sign Amare - probably fill a few more seats that way and improve our chances of making the playoffs, also worth some money.

The main reason I'm against it is that Wright will probably lose most of his PT and I think its important to find out if he helps us significantly. I expected him to have more positive impact than he has had so far. I don't know when his contract is up but I'd like the team to be certain sooner rather than later whether he should be part of our plans or not.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm going to seize this rare opportunity to agree with you Chap. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the Suns sign Amare - probably fill a few more seats that way and improve our chances of making the playoffs, also worth some money.

The main reason I'm against it is that Wright will probably lose most of his PT and I think its important to find out if he helps us significantly. I expected him to have more positive impact than he has had so far. I don't know when his contract is up but I'd like the team to be certain sooner rather than later whether he should be part of our plans or not.

+1

 

[Mainstreet]

The main reason I'm against it is that Wright will probably lose most of his PT and I think its important to find out if he helps us significantly. I expected him to have more positive impact than he has had so far. I don't know when his contract is up but I'd like the team to be certain sooner rather than later whether he should be part of our plans or not.

I'm thinking the Suns trade for Brandan Wright was a waste of a first round pick (minimally two second round picks). It wouldn't surprise me if the Wolves surpass the protection on that pick next season while Wright walks as a FA. I think McDonough made a mistake.

 

[Hoop Head]

The pick is top 12 protected this year and next, no chance the Wolves make the playoffs next season. They'd have to finish 9th or 10th in the West for the pick to be transferred and right now they're last in the West, with the second worst record in the league overall. They should take a step forward but not enough to surpass at least 5 teams in the West, which would need to happen for them to land the 13th spot in the draft. Even if the playoff seeding is changed next season, which I doubt happens so soon, they won't be outside of the bottom 10 teams in the league.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm thinking the Suns trade for Brandan Wright was a waste of a first round pick (minimally two second round picks). It wouldn't surprise me if the Wolves surpass the protection on that pick next season while Wright walks as a FA. I think McDonough made a mistake.

Maybe but if so, it's not much of one. We needed help at the 4/5 and he's helped a little. I have no problem with spending a low value draft pick to try and shore up your playoff run. And I'd have no problem if we went a step further and signed Amare in an effort to help us even more. But I looked at our schedule and figured we had to go into the break with no worse than a 3 - 1 record to have an outside shot at the playoffs. We missed on that with our loss last night so I'd pass on adding a short term player now. It's time to trade Goran, Zoran, Gerald, PJ and maybe even the twins. Run the young guys.

Steve

 

[Budden]

From this December:
http://youtu.be/FWwAhFVRsh8

His current stats are the virtually the same as Shaq's were before he came here. Imagine what he could do with the Suns training staff working their magic on him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe but if so, it's not much of one. We needed help at the 4/5 and he's helped a little. I have no problem with spending a low value draft pick to try and shore up your playoff run. And I'd have no problem if we went a step further and signed Amare in an effort to help us even more. But I looked at our schedule and figured we had to go into the break with no worse than a 3 - 1 record to have an outside shot at the playoffs. We missed on that with our loss last night so I'd pass on adding a short term player now. It's time to trade Goran, Zoran, Gerald, PJ and maybe even the twins. Run the young guys.

Steve

This is where I am at, but I don't think the Suns are there yet.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd like to see a youth movement also but I'd prefer to keep Goran and move IT. That would allow us more options in FA if we could get expiring deals in return and maybe a late pick. If Goran moves on then at least the team could say they tried to appease him by moving IT. If they can clear IT's deal and Goran leaves the team should have around 20 million in cap space depending on what the cap ends up being. Any players like Tucker or the Twins that could be moved would just add to the space available.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd like to see a youth movement also but I'd prefer to keep Goran and move IT. That would allow us more options in FA if we could get expiring deals in return and maybe a late pick. If Goran moves on then at least the team could say they tried to appease him by moving IT. If they can clear IT's deal and Goran leaves the team should have around 20 million in cap space depending on what the cap ends up being. Any players like Tucker or the Twins that could be moved would just add to the space available.

If Goran were younger or we were closer to contending yearly I'd agree. I'd certainly much prefer to watch Dragic play than IT. But given his age and probable salary demands, it makes sense to move Goran now IMO. I wouldn't hesitate to trade Isaiah too if the right offer came along. We can afford to keep Goran but I'd rather spend the money elsewhere not to mention opening up time for Ennis, Goodwin and Warren.

Steve

 

[Hoop Head]

I know Goran's older but I think he'll have more value in the next year or two than IT, even on a larger salary. Also the thought of starting a backcourt of IT & Bledsoe next year sounds awful and is something I'd like to see avoided as much as possible. I doubt the team adds a SG to start alongside Bledsoe if Goran leaves and IT is still on the roster. I know they should be better and have more talent than the 2012-13 team but a lineup of IT, Bledsoe, Tucker or Marcus, Markieff, and Len isn't a team that will contend any more than this season and the style they'd most likely play would be just as ugly as the 12-13 team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know Goran's older but I think he'll have more value in the next year or two than IT, even on a larger salary. Also the thought of starting a backcourt of IT & Bledsoe next year sounds awful and is something I'd like to see avoided as much as possible. I doubt the team adds a SG to start alongside Bledsoe if Goran leaves and IT is still on the roster. I know they should be better and have more talent than the 2012-13 team but a lineup of IT, Bledsoe, Tucker or Marcus, Markieff, and Len isn't a team that will contend any more than this season and the style they'd most likely play would be just as ugly as the 12-13 team.

I wouldn't want that either. I'd start Ennis and Bledsoe and see if Eric can play the shooting guard role the way we've asked Goran to do it. IOW, with occasional stints as the point guard. I'd start Warren too and bring IT, Archie and Bullock off the bench.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

From this December:
http://youtu.be/FWwAhFVRsh8

His current stats are the virtually the same as Shaq's were before he came here. Imagine what he could do with the Suns training staff working their magic on him.

The Suns training staff had a chance to do that years ago and didn't take it. Why would they now? Especially with their monitoring of the young guys, i.e. Alex Len...

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns training staff had a chance to do that years ago and didn't take it. Why would they now? Especially with their monitoring of the young guys, i.e. Alex Len...

Well that's not exactly the case is it? Didn't we offer him a multi-year deal? It seems to me that it was the fact we couldn't insure the end of the contract that was the issue but maybe I'm misremembering.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I wouldn't want that either. I'd start Ennis and Bledsoe and see if Eric can play the shooting guard role the way we've asked Goran to do it. IOW, with occasional stints as the point guard. I'd start Warren too and bring IT, Archie and Bullock off the bench.

Steve

I'd like for the Suns to move away from starting two PGs except as the situation arises. The team seems confused by too many leaders.

 

[slinslin]

I wouldn't want that either. I'd start Ennis and Bledsoe and see if Eric can play the shooting guard role the way we've asked Goran to do it. IOW, with occasional stints as the point guard. I'd start Warren too and bring IT, Archie and Bullock off the bench.

Steve

Len/Plumlee
Morris/???
Morris/Warren
Goodwin/Bullock
Bledsoe/Ennis

(IT, Green, Dragic x2, Tucker, Wright expendable)

if we were to go young and accept the playoff miss. Bledsoe/Goodwin/Warren is not a good combination yet, as neither is a shooter. If you got another good PF for our other trade pieces than move Bullock and Warren to the starter unit and Morri and Goodwin to the backups.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd like for the Suns to move away from starting two PGs except as the situation arises. The team seems confused by too many leaders.

Well, I know we disagree on this but I don't believe we've really been starting two point guards. We've been starting two hybrid guards or whatever you want to call them. Bledsoe, Goran and even IT are as much shooting guards as they are point guards. Anyway, putting Ennis in the game gives us one true point guard. I don't know that the pairing will work but I think it's worth finding out.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Len/Plumlee
Morris/???
Morris/Warren
Goodwin/Bullock
Bledsoe/Ennis

(IT, Green, Dragic x2, Tucker, Wright expendable)

if we were to go young and accept the playoff miss. Bledsoe/Goodwin/Warren is not a good combination yet, as neither is a shooter. If you got another good PF for our other trade pieces than move Bullock and Warren to the starter unit and Morri and Goodwin to the backups.

I think you have to be very careful when you start to focus on the development of your youth, you don't want to do anything to decrease the value of the veterans. With this much of the season remaining, I don't believe you can move Markieff to the bench unless you have an arguably superior young player to replace him. And we don't. The same is true with Goran. He has to continue to start and play reasonable minutes even if "win now" is no longer the priority - until we can trade him.

As for Bledsoe, Goodwin and Warren, I agree that lineup would struggle but again winning would be a secondary goal. Besides, I'd put Ennis in with the starters and run IT, Goodwin, Bullock with the second unit. At least until we had a reason to do it otherwise.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Well that's not exactly the case is it? Didn't we offer him a multi-year deal? It seems to me that it was the fact we couldn't insure the end of the contract that was the issue but maybe I'm misremembering.

Steve

From what I remember, we offered him a multi-year deal with an out clause after 2 years because the training staff was concerned with his knees. Add to that he wouldn't get insured, and it was a no-brainer at the time.

Now, sure, he'd be making less money, although I wouldn't bet on him taking the minimum, even with all the money he'd get from the NY buyout, but even so, forget about the money. What possible use could he be on the team? He MIGHT be able to help us get in the playoffs, but that would still be the 8th seed.

I think he's not worth even thinking about--he wouldn't come to the Suns anyway.

 

[Chaplin]

I'd like for the Suns to move away from starting two PGs except as the situation arises. The team seems confused by too many leaders.

I disagree, one of the biggest things about this team that I've noticed is the LACK of leadership. They appear to be a rudderless ship a lot of the time.

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree, one of the biggest things about this team that I've noticed is the LACK of leadership. They appear to be a rudderless ship a lot of the time.

So they need three captains to steer the ship? Maybe everyone could get on-board with one captain.

It's sort of like the quote:

"too many cooks spoil the broth"

 

[AzStevenCal]

So they need three captains to steer the ship? Maybe everyone could get on-board with one captain.

It's sort of like the quote:

I agree with Chaplin, we really don't have any leaders. Just because Goran is a point guard, it doesn't mean he's a leader. The same is true of Bledsoe. Neither of them has the personality for it. I think the twins were the closest we came to leaders early on but we see how that's worked out.

Steve