Knicks, Amare discussing buyout.

[slinslin]

Goran is certainly not a leader.

 

[Errntknght]

Len/Plumlee
Morris/???
Morris/Warren
Goodwin/Bullock
Bledsoe/Ennis

(IT, Green, Dragic x2, Tucker, Wright expendable)

if we were to go young and accept the playoff miss. Bledsoe/Goodwin/Warren is not a good combination yet, as neither is a shooter. If you got another good PF for our other trade pieces than move Bullock and Warren to the starter unit and Morri and Goodwin to the backups.

Have you decided that Wright is expendable already? I know he's 27 but he's never played heavy minutes and he seems to keep himself in good shape so he could almost certainly play for five more years and maybe considerably longer. If he has a history of injuries that would change the story. I'm not convinced yet that he's a good fit but I'd like to see more before we toss him - in the abstract I like his game and the fact that he's seemingly happy being a backup. With the rest of that group you have he'd be the back up PF primarily and play center as needed. Right now I'd keep him over the ever preening Plumlee.

 

[Errntknght]

I agree with AzSteve about starting Ennis - there's not much point of playing Warren if you don't have someone who'll make sure he gets the ball. He has looked great with Jam, making their halfcourt offense look rather organized. He's not an anemic scorer either and I'd expect his 3 point shooting to improve - he doesn't force things though and we need more of that mindset. You never know, he could convince Hornacek that it would be worthwhile to expand the halfcourt playbook.

Goodwin is a problem child and I don't think he'd thrive paired with IT - he'd be the forgotten man again. I still like the idea of pairing him with Bledsoe and having them put high pressure on the opps. guards - even to the point of pressing full court. Make it a well defined role and use it every game so Archie feels like he's a contributing part of the team - it might do no so such thing but its worth a try IMO. Jeff has never given the slightest hint that he'd consider doing that however. Among the things that Jeff has shown an interest in doing, I can't think of any that would help Archie much. (If you're getting the idea that I think Hornacek is part of the problem, you're quite right.)

 

[devilalum]

Ennis only gets minutes if the Suns are mathematically out of the playoffs.
I don't think they're going to throw in the towel anytime soon even if they fall behind OKC.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree with Chaplin, we really don't have any leaders. Just because Goran is a point guard, it doesn't mean he's a leader. The same is true of Bledsoe. Neither of them has the personality for it. I think the twins were the closest we came to leaders early on but we see how that's worked out.

Steve

Well someone is running the Suns team on the court unless Hornacek is suiting up. The problem is, I think Dragic or Bledsoe could lead the Suns more effectively if they were playing beside a traditional SG where everyone knows who is running the team on the court. Labels are for the fans to understand the game if I recall correctly. Call the point guard role what you may. I think some are using the words "leader", "point guard" and other labels to make their own individual points. The Suns are in 8th place in the Western Conference for a reason.

 

[elindholm]

I think some are using the words "leader", "point guard" and other labels to make their own individual points.

While it's true that the labels or their specific definitions don't matter, a team needs to have balance to be really good. Five players on the floor at a time isn't very many. If you have two or three players in the same lineup who all do basically the same things, that's a redundancy that's going to interfere with ideal productivity. It wouldn't be any better to have three centers than it would to have three point guards.

It's obvious to everyone that the Suns lack an interior presence, especially on the offensive end. Whether that problem is phrased as "too many point guards," "no true power forward," or any other label-laden language is tangential to the real issue.

 

[Mainstreet]

While it's true that the labels or their specific definitions don't matter, a team needs to have balance to be really good. Five players on the floor at a time isn't very many. If you have two or three players in the same lineup who all do basically the same things, that's a redundancy that's going to interfere with ideal productivity. It wouldn't be any better to have three centers than it would to have three point guards.

It's obvious to everyone that the Suns lack an interior presence, especially on the offensive end. Whether that problem is phrased as "too many point guards," "no true power forward," or any other label-laden language is tangential to the real issue.

No doubt. The Suns have acquired a boatload of 1s, 2s and 3s. We agree the Suns need some balance on their roster.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well someone is running the Suns team on the court unless Hornacek is suiting up. The problem is, I think Dragic or Bledsoe could lead the Suns more effectively if they were playing beside a traditional SG where everyone knows who is running the team on the court. Labels are for the fans to understand the game if I recall correctly. Call the point guard role what you may. I think some are using the words "leader", "point guard" and other labels to make their own individual points. The Suns are in 8th place in the Western Conference for a reason.

Agreed.

 

[sunsfan88]

Every athlete cares about one last payday. If he can snow people that he's healthy using our med staff to parlay one more deal, I wouldn't be surprised.

He's 32. NBA players tend to become more altruistic as they age because they know the money they've made will last forever. And politicians always tell the full truth.

Seriously though I could see a player like Stat giving up a little salary for a winning environment but I can't see him giving up much. Consistent minutes on a team that will let showcase him is likely to be an even bigger consideration for him, IMO.

Steve

I don't think he's getting much $$ at all, he just signed with Dallas.

Shams Charania ‏@ShamsCharania
Amar'e Stoudemire has committed to sign with the Dallas Mavericks, league sources tell RealGM.

Like many predicted, he's ring chasing.

 

[95pro]

nash, marion, amare and carter have played for both the suns and mavs.

 

[slinslin]

Have you decided that Wright is expendable already? I know he's 27 but he's never played heavy minutes and he seems to keep himself in good shape so he could almost certainly play for five more years and maybe considerably longer. If he has a history of injuries that would change the story. I'm not convinced yet that he's a good fit but I'd like to see more before we toss him - in the abstract I like his game and the fact that he's seemingly happy being a backup. With the rest of that group you have he'd be the back up PF primarily and play center as needed. Right now I'd keep him over the ever preening Plumlee.

He is an unrestricted FA and has not played better than Plumlee.

I wouldn't pay him what he will likely get on the market so it would be better to look for a contender that is willing to give up a first round pick for him.

Picking up Amare for free was the only chance this team had to stay ahead of OKC.

 

[BC867]

He is an unrestricted FA and has not played better than Plumlee.

I wouldn't pay him what he will likely get on the market so it would be better to look for a contender that is willing to give up a first round pick for him.

Picking up Amare for free was the only chance this team had to stay ahead of OKC.

Wright has not filled the role he was brought in for. Plumlee has regressed. Markieff has declared himself undersized for PF, let alone C. Marcus has disappointed. PJ is hot and cold. And they both find themselves moving up to PF when Markieff moves to C.

And then there is the 3-headed Point Guard experiment. And Green hogging the ball and regressing as well.

With the exception of Len, the Suns need to gut the team and give the young guys a chance. But that is not happening.

The Suns ownership and Front Office has dug a hole for themselves that will take years to dig their way out of. Even then, they have not shown the skill to be able to.

They are not the only disappointing team in the league, but they are our team. It's frustrating!

 

[sunsfan88]

Wright has not played better than Plumlee? Is that a joke?

 

[BC867]

Wright has not played better than Plumlee? Is that a joke?

He is a tall, thin player who was supposed to give us strength at the "4" and "5" and has not filled that role.

It is not about comparing him to a disappointing Plumlee. Better or worse, it doesn't matter.

They have both been disappointing, to the point where they are both on the bench with the game on the line.

 

[sunsfan88]

He is a tall, thin player who was supposed to give us strength at the "4" and "5" and has not filled that role.

It is not about comparing him to a disappointing Plumlee. Better or worse, it doesn't matter.

They have both been disappointing, to the point where they are both on the bench with the game on the line.

Yea agreed to some extent but I don't think its fair to say that he hasn't outplayed Plumlee. Wright can at least catch the ball. He's also somewhat useful at defending the rim.

 

[slinslin]

Yea agreed to some extent but I don't think its fair to say that he hasn't outplayed Plumlee. Wright can at least catch the ball. He's also somewhat useful at defending the rim.

That is why Wright replaced Len in the starting lineup..

He has been pretty good in terms of +/- in his limited minutes, but he also ranks among the worst defenders in the league so far by defensive rpm while Plumlee is among the better defenders at his position in the league.

 

[Errntknght]

That is why Wright replaced Len in the starting lineup..

He has been pretty good in terms of +/- in his limited minutes, but he also ranks among the worst defenders in the league so far by defensive rpm while Plumlee is among the better defenders at his position in the league.

If you look at their FG% against as measured by the SportsVu (tracking)data Miles comes in at 53% while Wright is at 46% for his time in Phoenix. Actually, I wouldn't say that Wright can defend better than Plumlee can, because we have seen Plums doing very well at it - but he isn't doing it now. Or you could look at RPM where Wright outdoes Plumlee to the tune of +.53 vs. -.79. - offense does matter, too.

I don't have much faith in XRPM - I like +- per 100 possessions better than +- per 48 minutes because you don't need to adjust for pace - but the regression technique that is used for adjusting for who they are on the floor with (teammates and opponents) is mathematically unstable. (That means that small changes in the input can cause large changes in the output.) The other problem with it is that the raw data is very 'sparse' because there are an astronomical number of combinations. For example, the 108 lineups for the Suns on 82games.com fail to account for 20% of the teams total minutes which means that there are a large number of lineups that didn't make the cut off - it has to be a large number because any lineup that was used much would make the cutoff as that is the criteria. Conservatively the Suns have used 150 lineups and other teams that I looked at had similar stats. So the number of overall combinations is (30 * 29)/2 *150*150 = 663,750 and the total number of minutes in all the games is 30/2 * 82 * 48.3 = 59,409. The average number of minutes played by each combination of 10 players comes out to .089 minutes or 5.4 seconds. Obviously the actual time any group of 10 players was on the floor was a lot longer than 5 seconds - or it was zero. Just as obviosly most of the numbers have to be zero - one of the 'best' conditions for a highly unstable regression.

I think the tracking data will lead to better defensive stats than DRPM in the long run, though mathematical methods used in DPRM can be improved as mathematicians work on the problems - the current methods are not carved in stone. The underlying problem is probably not inherently unstable just the particular techniques being used.

 

[sunsfan88]

You must be registered for see images attach

Feels weird seeing him in a Mavs jersey.

 

[Lorenzo]

nash, marion, amare and carter have played for both the suns and mavs.

Mike Finley Jason Kidd. And while he's no star many dal fans are still pissed that b wright was traded for rondo. Strange rivalry I miss what we used to have. Now the suns just own Dallas.

 

[leclerc]

Wright is a lot better than plum dog. I'm pleased with Len and Wright going into next year. We need to shake it up at the forward positions. Out with the twins and in with a stud PF?

 

[sunsfan88]

That is why Wright replaced Len in the starting lineup..

He has been pretty good in terms of +/- in his limited minutes, but he also ranks among the worst defenders in the league so far by defensive rpm while Plumlee is among the better defenders at his position in the league.

That's why Plumlee is the one that got traded.