Knicks coming apart

JCSunsfan

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I think their key problem is the coach.. MDA. I liked him before but I was blinded by Nash's ability to run the team rather than his actual coaching.

MDA doesn't teach defense. He rarely goes over them (sounds similar?). He doesn't bring out the best out of his players. He would just keep using his "good" players until they are tired and worn out.

Gentry, on the other hand, encourages players to do their best. IE: Dragic against Spurs, running plays for Richardson against Lakers when he was hot, and letting Hedo play what he does the best last night. I don't see that from MDA..well, from my limited Suns' games I've watched. Not sure if he has changed in New York but I highly doubt it.

I don't think Amare is trash but on a @#!*% team like NY, they need to pay "premium" ($100 Mils) to attract any serious player. @#!*% , even Lebron didn't want to go. They are blaming a bit too early and they need to change coach.

DAntoni stunted Amare's progress as a player. If Amare had come out as a rookie under a Jerry Sloan type, he would have picked up on that competetiveness would have developed a complete game. Amare chose money and flattery over personal development when he went to NY. Not that anyone can really fault him. After all, there is life after basketball and the money does matter. But if Amare's real goal was to be absolutely the best at his position (which is what he said as a rookie) then he would have chosen to play under a coach that would made him do the little things to get there.

Amare reminds me of Charles "they don't pay me enough to play defense" Barkley. His talent got us to the finals--his lack of commitment cost us a championship.
 

AzStevenCal

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Amare reminds me of Charles "they don't pay me enough to play defense" Barkley. His talent got us to the finals--his lack of commitment cost us a championship.

At least he doesn't remind you of Rony (why should I lead my team to the playoffs, they only pay us for the regular season) Seikaly. I don't remember where I came across this but it was a story from John Salley and it shocked me. I'd never thought of it that way beofre and now I can't help but wonder how many key players throw games to avoid the "free season".

Steve
 

AzStevenCal

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Once, our goal was to get two-way players. Now it seems we need two-way coaches...

I don't see how getting coaches that go both ways is going to help that team. They're screwed either way.

Steve
 

cly2tw

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The downturn for the Knicks came when Turiaf was injured and DA played smallball with Amare at C. Now, Turiaf is back and Amare at PF, they play much better defense. Their offense is just chaotic. Their motions via pick and screens are inefficient. And Amare's jumper has been non-existent, so that the only thing left for him is to drive.
 

Folster

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And lead them to a 3-1 week while we pay Turkoglu.

The wins were against the Kings, the Lee-less Warriors, and the Clippers.

Their wins so far are against the Bulls, Wizards and the three listed above. Their losses were to the Sixers, Bucks, Warriors, T-Wolves, Rockets, and Nuggets. I'm not too impressed.

The Suns would be looking much better had they been dealt the Knicks early schedule.
 

Bufalay

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The wins were against the Kings, the Lee-less Warriors, and the Clippers.

Their wins so far are against the Bulls, Wizards and the three listed above. Their losses were to the Sixers, Bucks, Warriors, T-Wolves, Rockets, and Nuggets. I'm not too impressed.

The Suns would be looking much better had they been dealt the Knicks early schedule.

No one said the Knicks were better than the Suns.

The Knicks are better than they were last year. Amare hasn't been "exposed" like many thought he would by playing without Nash.
 

Bert

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Bufalay

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This is funny.... Dude creats a thread titled "STAT IS A FRAUD - Not worth the 100million"

Then a week later he posts:

"...he is a flat out stud/leader when we need a bucket. He is a huge upgrade over Lee, I think someone said it best when they said IMPACT POINTS because when STAT scores that **** matters."

Apparently winning POW heals all wounds in NYC. :p


I wonder when the last time a Knicks player won player of the week was.
 

Michael

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Is this award just a recognition of offensive output and wins with disregards to the defensive side of things?
I'm not sure if I remember this correctly as I haven't watched a Knicks game (and don't know if Amar'e was guarding any of the guys) but didn't Kevin Love had 30/30 and Blake Griffin 44/15 in the same stretch?
 

AfroSuns

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A lot of us had said it before, Amare is an offensive machine and while it would be nice to play with Nash, he does not need him to get his points.
We are also finding out, how much we missed his swats and "bad" defense.
 

jagu

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The wins were against the Kings, the Lee-less Warriors, and the Clippers.

Their wins so far are against the Bulls, Wizards and the three listed above. Their losses were to the Sixers, Bucks, Warriors, T-Wolves, Rockets, and Nuggets. I'm not too impressed.

The Suns would be looking much better had they been dealt the Knicks early schedule.

I watched every Knick game this season (being in NY), they suck. They had a west coast road trip facing the true crap of the West. Amare rocked them but there was 0 defense by any of those teams. And don't forget that even if Amare scored points, the opposing forward or center was putting on a show as well.
 

Chaplin

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Is this award just a recognition of offensive output and wins with disregards to the defensive side of things?
I'm not sure if I remember this correctly as I haven't watched a Knicks game (and don't know if Amar'e was guarding any of the guys) but didn't Kevin Love had 30/30 and Blake Griffin 44/15 in the same stretch?

Yes, but Kevin Love plays for the T-Wolves and Blake Griffin plays for the Clippers, both in the Western Conference. Amare won it for the Eastern Conference. Funny thing is, Russell Westbrook won it for the West.
 

Chaplin

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A lot of us had said it before, Amare is an offensive machine and while it would be nice to play with Nash, he does not need him to get his points.
We are also finding out, how much we missed his swats and "bad" defense.

Nobody claimed we weren't going to miss him for a few years. We clearly do. What it boiled down to was his effectiveness AFTER those few years. I actually had no problem with the contract we offered him, which was essentially the same as the one he got in NY, assuming he stayed healthy.
 

desertdawg

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A lot of us had said it before, Amare is an offensive machine and while it would be nice to play with Nash, he does not need him to get his points.
We are also finding out, how much we missed his swats and "bad" defense.
yeah buddy. :thumbup:
 

The_Matrix

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D'Antoni revamps offense, and it's working

Updated: Nov 20, 2010 10:30 PM
By ALAN HAHN

LOS ANGELES - The "Seven Seconds or Less'' philosophy had to be torn up, and it might remain that way unless the Knicks eventually bring Steve Nash to New York to run it again for Mike D'Antoni .

"Steve can be the end-all guy,'' D'Antoni said. "He can have the ball to start with, and when it leaves his hands, it's over with.''

In Amar'e Stoudemire, the Knicks have the dynamic finisher who thrived with Nash, but although Raymond Felton is a solid point guard in his own right - as he and everyone else have repeated since training camp - he is not Steve Nash . So D'Antoni has had to adjust his trademark system to utilize the strengths of his roster.

And as the Knicks closed out their four-game western swing against the Clippers lastnight, the adjustments were starting to work. Felton, who had a career-high 35 points along with 11 assists in Friday night's 125-119 win over Golden State, was no longer conscripted to run the offense but be a part of it. The ball has moved from the top of the key to the wing, where capable playmakers such as Danilo Gallinari and rookie Landry Fields - not to mention center Ronny Turiaf - are more involved in moving the ball. Turiaf had eight assists Friday night.

"We have to involve more people,'' D'Antoni said. "We get our assists by getting two or three 'hockey assists,' where maybe in Phoenix [with Nash], we just needed one pass.''

Nash and Stoudemire used to run the pick-and-roll with great success, and in the previous two seasons, it was the favorite play for Chris Duhon and David Lee . But Felton struggled to make it work with Stoudemire, and after about a dozen games of trying, D'Antoni decided to scrap it.

"When you have 10 new guys, there are a lot of things that you're thinking, 'This is really going to be good,' and it's a disaster,'' D'Antoni said.

Felton may have found a new favorite for the play list in the "pinch post,'' which is something often used in the triangle offense. It involves the ball going to the wing and the guard - in this case Felton - running off the big man, Stoudemire, at the top of the key. It worked several times against the Warriors.

"If you come off that quick, it's kind of tough to guard that,'' Felton said. "When I go off, my man is behind me. It's a layup.''

The Knicks still have to improve their execution down the stretch, as they almost blew another fourth-quarter lead against the Warriors after going up 18 late in the third. Gallinari was able to knock down three clutch three-pointers and score 11 points in a three-minute span to avoid disaster, and it should be noted that the shots were all the result of ball movement, with assists from Felton, Stoudemire and Turiaf.

D'Antoni isn't completely satisfied, but at least there are signs of improvement. "You get certain ideas and it doesn't work, so you've got to do other things; it's not like you change the offense, but you change the emphasis on how we're doing it,'' he said. "You've got to adjust to it, and that's why it takes a little while to jell and find out the players' strengths and then get them confident enough to do what they do.''

Felton spoke excitedly about the offense for the first time after the win over Golden State, which certainly made it easy because Monta Ellis (40 points) and Stephen Curry (29), for all of their offense, hardly challenged on defense. But it was a perfect environment for Felton to find his comfort zone.

"This system is fun,'' Felton said. "Once you learn it and get comfortable with one another, it's fun.''
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/d-antoni-revamps-offense-and-it-s-working-1.2482847

Further proof that Steve Nash is an offensive immortal. Interesting to see D'Antoni adapt to his players and change his play calling. It only took a six game losing streak and private conferences with Felton and Amare.
 
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dreamcastrocks

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To say the Knicks are coming apart is implying that they were together.
 

AfroSuns

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Nobody claimed we weren't going to miss him for a few years. We clearly do.
Hey Chaps, believe me i can quote one poster here after 1 good game from Warrick claiming we do not miss Amare.
Incidentally, that Poster resides in the same state as Amare now. :D
 

jagu

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Hey Chaps, believe me i can quote one poster here after 1 good game from Warrick claiming we do not miss Amare.
Incidentally, that Poster resides in the same state as Amare now. :D


That sounds like me lol. I'd take Amare back in a heartbeat if we could send Frye packing hehehe. I don't want Amare for a max deal for that many years. He did what is right for him, time to move on. Yea our defense sucks, Amare won't help that. He may get a few more boards than the rest of this front line but in the end, we aren't winning a championship with him in the forward or center position because defense wins championships unless you can sustain a seriously high offensive output for an entire series. It's hard to do in the playoffs.
 

AzStevenCal

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That sounds like me lol. I'd take Amare back in a heartbeat if we could send Frye packing hehehe. I don't want Amare for a max deal for that many years. He did what is right for him, time to move on. Yea our defense sucks, Amare won't help that. He may get a few more boards than the rest of this front line but in the end, we aren't winning a championship with him in the forward or center position because defense wins championships unless you can sustain a seriously high offensive output for an entire series. It's hard to do in the playoffs.

People toss that phrase around as if it means something. Defense loses championships is much more accurate. In the end, outscoring your opponents is the only thing that matters. It's a lot easier, especially in the postseason, to outscore your opponent if you can play decent defense but it's just one facet of a winning team.

Really bad defensive teams do not win championships. Really bad offensive teams do not win championships. We're a decent offensive team and a bad defensive team and we're not going to win anything. Adding Amare to our current squad would make us a very good offensive team and a slightly below average defensive team and that's probably not going to win anything either. BUT, we'd be a lot more fun to watch.

Steve
 
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