Knicks coming apart

[Chaplin]

Amare left for mo' money. Time to let it go, we weren't going to keep him for a max deal and that would have effed our franchise for years. Yea we suck right now but there are times where we do play well. Is motivation an issue? I don't understand why we play so flat some times and other times we are playing lock down D and pushing the ball.

Understand your point, but the reality is that we offered Amare MORE than the Knicks did, it just wasn't 100% guaranteed. If he stayed healthy in years 4 and 5, then no problem, he'd get all his money. But the Suns weren't willing to take the chance to owe a guy who may or may not have no knees for two years at 30mil a year. That's a lot to give a guy with knees that might give out. Can you imagine the team with 60 million tied up over two years for a worthless player? I'm sure Suns doctors were on top of it and the odds probably aren't that great.

 

[jagu]

Understand your point, but the reality is that we offered Amare MORE than the Knicks did, it just wasn't 100% guaranteed. If he stayed healthy in years 4 and 5, then no problem, he'd get all his money. But the Suns weren't willing to take the chance to owe a guy who may or may not have no knees for two years at 30mil a year. That's a lot to give a guy with knees that might give out. Can you imagine the team with 60 million tied up over two years for a worthless player? I'm sure Suns doctors were on top of it and the odds probably aren't that great.

Yea I meant to add the non guaranteed part. Guaranteeing that much much money on Amare's knees was one hell of a risk. We'd be screwed. Of course it may work out for the Knicks in that he won't break but the odds are more against that happening.

 

[jagu]

Yeah, I meant free in each case. Add him to last year's team and I'd make us solid favorites. Add him to this year's team and I'd be out there trying to trade Hedo and Childress for a good 3 point shooter and a backup PF banger. If we could accomplish that, I'd give us a better chance to win it all.

Keep in mind though that I'm of the opinion that Hedo has regressed a bit since his Orlando days AND he's a bad fit with Nash. I'm also expecting Nash to start playing at a decreasingly effective level much the way he did last year after the first 8 weeks or so. All things considered, if you were to take Amare out of the mix completely I'd still prefer last year's team to this one so I would be less confident adding Howard to this year's mistake.

BTW, I'd also put them top 3 in this scenario but they'd be third, and a clear notch below 1 and 2.

Steve

Suns + Howard is definitely an elite team. We'll have a fast defensive big who can rebound and with Nash he'll find scoring easier as well. (finally)

 

[mojorizen7]

D.Howard doesn't fit "the "system" here.
Offensively(which is the end-all-be-all here in PHX) he's a bigman who demands touches but cant shoot the ball with range.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Suns + Howard is definitely an elite team. We'll have a fast defensive big who can rebound and with Nash he'll find scoring easier as well. (finally)

Define elite. If you mean, in the ballpark of the team that lost in last year's WCF final then I completely agree. If you mean a team that would PROBABLY win it all then no, I'd very much have to disagree.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Define elite. If you mean, in the ballpark of the team that lost in last year's WCF final then I completely agree. If you mean a team that would PROBABLY win it all then no, I'd very much have to disagree.

Steve

It's difficult to say that any team will "Probably win it all." Lakers, Heat, Celtics, San Antonio seem to be best teams so far, but I really couldn't say that one of them will probably win it all. In my opinion, that's a really poor way to judge a team.

I believe that if you added Howard to this team, they would have a better chance this year than Amare's Suns had last year.
I think people forget just how incredible Howard is as a defender/ rebounder.

Even if you take Hedo, Warrick, and Childress out of the picture, Suns would still be an incredible team with Howard. Better than the Lakers, or Heat? Not sure, but in my opinion they would have a better shot against the Lakers than they did last year.

 

[jagu]

Is Carmello overrated? I've seen a whole bunch of games with Carmello and he really doesn't make me think wow what a player to have.

 

[jagu]

Define elite. If you mean, in the ballpark of the team that lost in last year's WCF final then I completely agree. If you mean a team that would PROBABLY win it all then no, I'd very much have to disagree.

Steve

Getting to the WCF is pretty hard, I think with Dwight we could possibly get there and we finally have someone to guard Gasol.

Rolo
Dwight
Hill
JRich
Nash

 

[jagu]

Define elite. If you mean, in the ballpark of the team that lost in last year's WCF final then I completely agree. If you mean a team that would PROBABLY win it all then no, I'd very much have to disagree.

Steve

Getting to the WCF is pretty hard, I think with Dwight we could get there and we finally have someone to guard Gasol. It's a championship level team.

Rolo
Dwight
Hill
JRich
Nash

 

[Mainstreet]

Without taking Amundson's injury into consideration, the Suns would have been a lot better team keeping Amundson and not signing Hedo. I think the Suns pulled the trigger at the first team that offered something seemingly positive for Barbosa. I still think Sarver was getting advice from Lon Babby (before he signed with the Suns) because of the signing of Hedo and Childress both former clients of Babby. If nothing else, I think Hedo has messed up the Suns chemistry.

 

[Michael]

D.Howard doesn't fit "the "system" here.
Offensively(which is the end-all-be-all here in PHX) he's a bigman who demands touches but cant shoot the ball with range.

I seriously believe that a guy like Amar'e fits better with Nash offensively. Stoudemire was nearly unstoppable when he developed the option to drill a shot from range instead of ALWAYS rolling to the basket. Howard wouldn't have that option. And his poor free throw shooting would make the Nash/Howard combo less lethal than Nash/Stoudemire to finish games. Needless to say, we'd still be a better team with him thanks to rebounding and defense.
But while we're talking fantasy basketball, Blake Griffin is definitely the player I'd love to have on the Suns. Imagine him running the break with the Suns or pick&rolling with Nash! Pretty sad that we've come to a point at which we envy the Clippers for their talent.

 

[AfroSuns]

Watching Knicks and Nuggets game. A really good game. It is so obvious how an addition of one good player can make everyone else better. Chandler of the knicks seem to have benefited a lot with the addition of Amare.

 

[jagu]

Watching Knicks and Nuggets game. A really good game. It is so obvious how an addition of one good player can make everyone else better. Chandler of the knicks seem to have benefited a lot with the addition of Amare.

Watching the game too, both teams played very good offense. Atrocious defense and good offense.

 

[SirStefan32]

Without taking Amundson's injury into consideration, the Suns would have been a lot better team keeping Amundson and not signing Hedo. I think the Suns pulled the trigger at the first team that offered something seemingly positive for Barbosa. I still think Sarver was getting advice from Lon Babby (before he signed with the Suns) because of the signing of Hedo and Childress both former clients of Babby. If nothing else, I think Hedo has messed up the Suns chemistry.

I don't think Hedo messed anything up. Suns' problem is they simply have too many SGs/SF's, which is really messing with the whole "2nd unit" thing they had last year. You had Nash/J-Rich/Hill/Amare/Lopez and you had Dragic/LB/Dudley/Lou/Fry.
Now, it is not that simple. You've added Hedo and Chilli while you only lost LB. There is only 96 minutes for those two positions and you have J-Rich, Hill, Hedo, Dudley, and Chilli fighting for those minutes. It's not Hedo's fault, or Chris' fault, it's just the fact that they have too many players on two positions.

I do think we miss Lou more than most people realize. I would LOVE to see Dragic/Chilli/Dudley/Lou/Fry lineup.

 

[AfroSuns]

Watching the game too, both teams played very good offense. Atrocious defense and good offense.

There are some games you learn not to look for defense. It is D'Antoni and the Nuggets, this is not the largest combined point both parties have put up.
Amare's offense is just sick!!

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's difficult to say that any team will "Probably win it all." Lakers, Heat, Celtics, San Antonio seem to be best teams so far, but I really couldn't say that one of them will probably win it all. In my opinion, that's a really poor way to judge a team.

I believe that if you added Howard to this team, they would have a better chance this year than Amare's Suns had last year.
I think people forget just how incredible Howard is as a defender/ rebounder.

Even if you take Hedo, Warrick, and Childress out of the picture, Suns would still be an incredible team with Howard. Better than the Lakers, or Heat? Not sure, but in my opinion they would have a better shot against the Lakers than they did last year.

I don't think he'd fit very well with the makeup of this team. He'd be great on defense but he'd really be relegated to a Dikembe kind of role and he's much better than that. Add him to last year's team and I think we're a lock to win it all but add him to this year's team and he makes us a good team that can't get over the LA/Spurs hump.

Yes, all things considered Dwight is a better player than Amare but Amare is a much better fit with Nash and our style. Even with Howard on our team, I don't see that changing until we really have a changing of the guard.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Without taking Amundson's injury into consideration, the Suns would have been a lot better team keeping Amundson and not signing Hedo. I think the Suns pulled the trigger at the first team that offered something seemingly positive for Barbosa. I still think Sarver was getting advice from Lon Babby (before he signed with the Suns) because of the signing of Hedo and Childress both former clients of Babby. If nothing else, I think Hedo has messed up the Suns chemistry.

I thought he would but now I'm not so sure. Everyone on the team rallied around him when he hit that big shot against Memphis. They seemed genuinely thrilled for his moment well beyond what you'd expect if he wasn't actually bonding with the guys. It took me by surprise and gave me a brief moment of hope that they know something about the guy that we don't.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't think he'd fit very well with the makeup of this team. He'd be great on defense but he'd really be relegated to a Dikembe kind of role and he's much better than that. Add him to last year's team and I think we're a lock to win it all but add him to this year's team and he makes us a good team that can't get over the LA/Spurs hump.

Yes, all things considered Dwight is a better player than Amare but Amare is a much better fit with Nash and our style. Even with Howard on our team, I don't see that changing until we really have a changing of the guard.

Steve

What style is that? No rebounding and no defense? Sure, Amare fits into "no rebounding, no defense" system much better than Dwight.

Suns issue never was offense. They can score. Nash, Richardson, Hill, Hedo, Warrick, Fry, Dragic can all score just fine.

What Howard could do is transform the worst rebounding/ defensive team to a good, or at least decent defensive/ rebounding team. Suns need defense, not offense. They can score 100-110 ppg with or without Amare, or Howard, or any one player for that matter.

 

[cly2tw]

Watching Knicks and Nuggets game. A really good game. It is so obvious how an addition of one good player can make everyone else better. Chandler of the knicks seem to have benefited a lot with the addition of Amare.

In both the Denver and the Washington games, Amare started shooting 1/7 with several TOs, as teams now come prepared for him and the Knicks' game plan. Yet, in both games, Amare's +/- had been in the plus and among the highest throughout the whole game. And he has been the enforcer in the 4th quarters.

Amare with one year of a true franchise player experience like he is having now, he would have won us that Game 6 of last year's WCF, where he was frustrated and the team didn't know how to adapt to it with him while Nash was worn down already to be much of good.

 

[Covert Rain]

What Howard could do is transform the worst rebounding/ defensive team to a good, or at least decent defensive/ rebounding team. Suns need defense, not offense. They can score 100-110 ppg with or without Amare, or Howard, or any one player for that matter.

We would be better at rebounding....I am just not so sure about the defense. We have one of the worst defending PGs in the entire league. Our bigs have a history of getting into foul trouble because of dribble penetration. Howard would impact the game defensively as long as he was not in foul trouble. Something tells me he would rack up more fouls on this team then he has ever experienced.

I do 100% agree this team should focus on getting better defensively by changing the culture around here and gettins some guys in here that play really good defense.

 

[jagu]

In both the Denver and the Washington games, Amare started shooting 1/7 with several TOs, as teams now come prepared for him and the Knicks' game plan. Yet, in both games, Amare's +/- had been in the plus and among the highest throughout the whole game. And he has been the enforcer in the 4th quarters.

Amare with one year of a true franchise player experience like he is having now, he would have won us that Game 6 of last year's WCF, where he was frustrated and the team didn't know how to adapt to it with him while Nash was worn down already to be much of good.

Nene did a great job on him. As soon as Al Harrington started guarding him, he went off. He didn't bring it against the Lakers and playoffs last year. Did he dog it? Maybe, but he sure didn't play aggressive like he played so far this season.

 

[Chaplin]

Nene did a great job on him. As soon as Al Harrington started guarding him, he went off. He didn't bring it against the Lakers and playoffs last year. Did he dog it? Maybe, but he sure didn't play aggressive like he played so far this season.

That's because the Knicks have nobody else--A lot of times, if Amare was having an off night to start off, we had Nash or JRich or even Hill to pick up some of the offensive load. Say all you want about Galinari and Felton, but Amare is FAR AND AWAY their best offensive option.

Right now, I'm wondering if fatigue is going to become a possibility with him. He HAS to score 30 a night for the Knicks to win, and that's not good for a guy that is that active and has suspect knees.

 

[cly2tw]

Nene did a great job on him. As soon as Al Harrington started guarding him, he went off. He didn't bring it against the Lakers and playoffs last year. Did he dog it? Maybe, but he sure didn't play aggressive like he played so far this season.

Read closely what I wrote, please. I already answered it all in th post your quoted.

As to his scoring only on Harrington, read Nene's comments in the game review, and watch the game. He made most of his 2nd half points in Nene's face. His main trouble in the 1st half was not hitting the jumpers. Limited to drives, Nene was strong and quick enough to really bother him. But he did all the passes and facilitated, with the best +/- on the Knicks.

 

[Michael]

Wow, I even found an article about Amar'e and the Knicks in a Sydney newspaper that usually has something on the NBA once a month or so - and hardly even anything else than LeBron or Kobe.
It'll still be interesting to see what NY will do over the next eight games. If they keep up with those teams, the last critics will stop talking about their easy schedule.

 

[jagu]

Being a New Yorker I wouldn't mind seeing a successful Knick franchise. I really hope they don't get Melo here though, can't stand that guy and I hate all the Thugget players.