Knicks & Suns Trade Q for KT

[elindholm]

Ugh - you want to talk about STIFFS!

You're just judging him by the standards of a #1 overall pick. If you think of him as a versatile, role-playing big man, he's pretty good. Probably not the defender of rebounder that Thomas is, but a more flexible scorer (in my opinion).

I can be satisfied with Thomas, though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ugh - you want to talk about STIFFS!

You're just judging him by the standards of a #1 overall pick. If you think of him as a versatile, role-playing big man, he's pretty good. Probably not the defender of rebounder that Thomas is, but a more flexible scorer (in my opinion).

I can be satisfied with Thomas, though.

eh - I just think he's soft. We got enough of those guys on this club as it is - that's really the principle reason I wouldn't want him.

 

[mribnik]

I was driving around here in San Diego and listening to the radio. On XTRA 690am they said the proposed trade had us sending New York the conditional pick. Then I switched to ESPN 800am and they said New York was sending us the pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Purely from a number standpoint, its the #11 ranked 3 (according to sportsline) for the#8 ranked 4.

Thomas' deal is 22.1 for 3 seasons.
Q is 37.7 for 5.

It would make sense for us to have to give up a pick in this deal. Since its protected, I assume its not this year's.

No one's getting screwed in this deal, and it addresses our biggest weaknesses--defensive rebounding and interior defense.

Can't argue with this deal--as long as Thomas has a clean bill of health--no more Hot Rod Williams deals.

 

[Joe Mama]

eh - I just think he's soft. We got enough of those guys on this club as it is - that's really the principle reason I wouldn't want him.

so which is it cheese? Is he soft or stiff?

BTW I really hope that's the first time you've ever been asked that question.

Joe Mama

 

[asudevil83]

as far as the pick thing goes....i'd love it if the trade gave us the #8 while we give up the #21. that would take care of the rumors of who gets a pick, because both teams do.

 

[sunsfn]

as far as the pick thing goes....i'd love it if the trade gave us the #8 while we give up the #21. that would take care of the rumors of who gets a pick, because both teams do.

That probably is not going to happen, because Isiah will get his center on the 8th pick by drafting Frye. That helps him trade Thomas.

 

[scotsman13]

hehe you know it is funny people are thinking that there is a problem with the trade. understand the trade couldnt go down until after tonight's game to begin with. so for everyone worrying about if it goes down done. as for the draft pick? if we have to give the knicks a draft pick think about this, next year the suns will be one of the top 4 teams again during the reg season. that means the draft pick would be from 27 to 30. now we the age limit in place and everyone one that could get away with it jumping to the draft this year there isnt going to be much depth next year. so we get rid of a very low value pick that some other team with have to sign and then cut. but in the end i think the suns are going to get the pick.

 

[devilalum]

so which is it cheese? Is he soft or stiff?

BTW I really hope that's the first time you've ever been asked that question.

Joe Mama

I thinks its idiotic when guys refer to "IT" as "HE"

 

[Kolo]

I thinks its idiotic when guys refer to "IT" as "HE"

I think it's idiotic when guys mistake possessive pronouns for contractions.

 

[fordronken]

Probably not the defender of rebounder that Thomas is, but a more flexible scorer (in my opinion).

But what does the team need more? I think Thomas is a versatile enough scorer that he won't weigh down the offense. On the other hand, his defense and rebounding could be huge.

 

[KloD]

Kurt's time up?

Team's top defender, rebounder may be sent to Suns for Richardson, shooting guard who would replace Houston

BY GREG LOGAN
STAFF WRITER

June 24, 2005


It's only a matter of time before Kurt Thomas and Allan Houston, the last links to the Knicks' perennial playoff contenders of old, are wiped out from a roster that seems to be shrinking by the moment in both size and stature.

Thomas has been offered to Phoenix in a deal that was on hold last night, and a quirk in the new collective-bargaining agreement opens the door for the Knicks to shed Houston's massive contract without incurring a luxury-tax penalty.

News of the Thomas trade for shooting guard Quentin Richardson and a conditional future first-round draft pick broke early yesterday morning in an Internet report from RealGM.com. The Arizona Republic later quoted Richardson saying that Suns general manager Bryan Colangelo told him the deal was done but then pulled the story from its Web site in the afternoon.

Most likely, the trade has been delayed. Knicks officials said there were discussions but no deal last night, and when Thomas was contacted yesterday, he said he had "no idea" if the deal would go through. "I've heard about it, but I'm just sitting back and waiting to see if something will happen," the 10-year veteran said.

When last season ended, Thomas hinted that he might ask for a trade, but yesterday he said, "I never asked."

If the deal goes through, Knicks president Isiah Thomas will have traded away all of the team's centers in the past year, including Nazr Mohammed, who started for the Spurs in Game 7 of the NBA Finals last night, Michael Doleac, Dikembe Mutombo and Kurt Thomas. No wonder the Knicks are expected to take Arizona center Channing Frye with the eighth pick of Tuesday's draft. Or maybe they believe they can land Cleveland free agent Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

In seven seasons with the Knicks, Kurt Thomas, 32, was a defensive stalwart who came to represent whatever toughness and character they possessed during the past few seasons in decline. A superb pick-and-roll player, Thomas averaged 11.5 points and a team-high 10.4 rebounds last season, but he clashed openly with point guard Stephon Marbury and challenged him to a locker-room fight near the end of January.

The Knicks can help the Suns again if this deal goes through. Kurt Thomas undoubtedly would welcome the opportunity to play with MVP point guard Steve Nash, and he would provide help for center Amare Stoudemire under the boards.

The 6-6 Richardson, 25, averaged 14.9 points and 6.1 rebounds with the run-and-gun Suns last season, but he shot only 38.9 percent. He has four years plus a team option for a fifth remaining on a contract valued at $37.7 million and would become part of a three-guard rotation with Marbury and Jamal Crawford.

Houston, who played only 20 games last season but is continuing rehabilitation for his arthritic left knee in the hope of resuming his career, likely will be waived in October. League and players' union officials yesterday confirmed the new collective-bargaining agreement contains a one-time provision that allows every team over the luxury tax threshold to waive one player without a tax penalty. Considering Houston has two years left at $39.8 million and the tax penalty is dollar-for-dollar, the Knicks could waive him and save that amount in luxury tax.

"The player's salary will still be owed to the player, and it will count against the salary cap," NBA spokesman Tim Frank said.

That means Houston, 34, can take the $39.8 million the Knicks owe him and try to catch on with another team for the veteran minimum salary. Details aren't final, but the deadline for teams to exercise the one-time option is expected to be set sometime in October during training camp.

Assuming Kurt Thomas and Houston are gone by the start of next season, it means the only player left on the 15-man roster Isiah Thomas inherited 18 months ago will be third-year forward Mike Sweetney.

Story

 

[elindholm]

But what does the team need more? I think Thomas is a versatile enough scorer that he won't weigh down the offense. On the other hand, his defense and rebounding could be huge.

Right, that's certainly possible. Back when this trade was just random unfounded speculation -- you know, earlier today -- I said that I couldn't decide which of Thomas or Smith I would prefer, eventually siding narrowly with Smith because of his age. But now I'm just continuing to pimp Smith because I think it's funny.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

But what does the team need more? I think Thomas is a versatile enough scorer that he won't weigh down the offense. On the other hand, his defense and rebounding could be huge.

Agreed. Thomas can definitely get his points anyways. He is a great pick and pop shooter, and will open the lane a lot for Amare.

 

[Biclops]

I dont think our offense is going to snag if Q really gets traded

After watching Amare turn into a MONSTER during the playoff I am pretty certain that his scoring number is going to increase again. That with whatever KT puts in will be more than enough to compensate for Q

I think we just traded offense for defense and rebounding

We have more than enough offense, and now after the trade, we have a little more defense and rebounding. All we have to do is fine tune with the draft and free agency and we will be ready to roll again

 

[devilalum]

Can the Suns wave Voskuhl to save a couple mil. to use on free agents?


He has a player option but can the Suns use their oops option to wave him?

 

[elindholm]

No, the oops option is only for avoiding luxury tax. Since the Suns are well below the luxury tax line, the option doesn't apply to them.

 

[ActingWild]

From Q...



Man, I hate to lose him...

Agreed. Q is a GREAT team player, consistently sacraficed his body to draw a charge, hit the glass, led the league in 3 pointers, has a low post game and is pure class all the way. I'm sad that he won't be in purple and orange next season.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

From the NY Times

Knicks and Suns Talk About Trade for Thomas


By HOWARD BECK
Published: June 24, 2005


Kurt Thomas, who has collected more than 4,000 rebounds and seemingly an equal number of trade rumors in his seven-year Knicks' career, may actually be changing addresses.

The Knicks are considering a deal that would send Thomas, their sturdy power forward, to the Phoenix Suns for Quentin Richardson, a young shooting guard. The Knicks would also receive a conditional first-round draft pick from the Suns.

Officials from both teams confirmed the framework of the deal yesterday but did not want to be identified because the deal was not complete.

After the deal was reported yesterday by RealGM.com, Richardson confirmed the details to The Arizona Republic. Richardson said he was told of the trade by his agent and by Suns General Manager Bryan Colangelo.

"It definitely is a shock, but I also understand it's a business decision," Richardson, who signed a six-year deal last July, told The Republic.

Thomas, an avid Web surfer, said that he learned of the deal from the RealGM.com report and that his agent had confirmed the talks.

"I just know there's a deal on the table," Thomas said by cellphone from Dallas, his hometown. "I can't comment on anything until it's official. And it's not official yet."

Asked if he believed the deal would happen, Thomas said, "I think so."

Richardson, coincidentally, was in New York yesterday for a photo shoot.

Neither Colangelo nor Isiah Thomas, president of the Knicks, was available for comment.

The trade would bolster the Knicks' backcourt and perimeter shooting, but at the expense of interior defense and rebounding. Kurt Thomas, who will be 33 next season, is their best post defender and help defender and their most savvy player. He averaged a career-high 10.4 rebounds a game last season, the fourth straight year he has led the team in that category.

In Richardson, the Knicks would get a much-needed athletic wing player who, at 25, has his best years ahead of him. Richardson averaged 14.9 points for the frenetic Suns last season and led the league in 3-pointers made (226) and attempted (631).

Although inconsistent - his career field-goal percentage is just .406 - Richardson is regarded as a solid 3-point shooter (.358 last season). He also is among the best rebounding guards in the league, averaging 6-plus in each of the last two seasons.

With Allan Houston's future hazy at best, the Knicks are in need of outside shooting and backcourt depth.

At 6 feet 6 inches and 230 pounds, Richardson is taller and brawnier than the Knicks' incumbent shooting guard, Jamal Crawford. The versatile Crawford could be pushed to the bench, where he would back up both Richardson and point guard Stephon Marbury.

The trade of Thomas would end years of speculation about his future. He was nearly dealt to Cleveland in February, a trade that would have sent the young power forward Drew Gooden to the Knicks.

The Knicks have four other power forwards on the roster - Mike Sweetney, Malik Rose, Maurice Taylor and Jerome Williams - but none as reliable as Thomas. They also lack a true center. They could fill the holes through Tuesday's draft and via free agency in July.

The Suns' interest in Thomas makes sense for competitive and financial reasons.

Although the Suns advanced to the Western Conference finals, San Antonio exploited their weak defense and won the series in five games. Thomas would bring toughness to the Phoenix frontcourt and would allow Shawn Marion to return to his natural position, small forward.

Joe Johnson, who had an All-Star-caliber season at small forward, would return to shooting guard. Johnson is a free agent who could command more than $10 million a season, and the Suns have vowed to match any offer he receives. The Suns also plan to extend the contract of Amare Stoudemire, so they have ample incentive to unload the final five years and $37.6 million of Richardson's deal. Thomas is due $22 million over the next three seasons.

The trade would be a curious turn of events for all parties. Last July, the Suns signed Richardson using the salary-cap room created when they dealt Marbury and Penny Hardaway to the Knicks six months earlier.

Richardson spent his first four seasons with the Los Angeles Clippers and did not sound eager to join another losing team.

"It's not something I wanted, but it's something I accept," he said of the trade. "I'm not trying to be angry or spiteful. They're trying to better the team and I can't be mad at that."

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

One site interpreted this article as "Q deal not happening tonight, might be off table completely"

I wouldn't go that far, but apparently there is a snag....

Suns on verge of trading Quentin Richardson
By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
June 23, 2005
The Suns, after tying a franchise record with 62 wins using a frenzied style of play, are on the verge of going to a more traditional look.
They are in the process of trading Quentin Richardson, who set franchise records for 3-point shooting, to New York for the veteran big man Kurt Thomas.

A conditional first-round draft pick may be involved in the trade, though it's not clear yet which team will get the pick.

The deal has hit a "technical snag" that the Suns hope can be worked out in the next day or two, an NBA source said.

Another source said the hold-up involves an insurance matter and that the deal "may or may not happen."

Richardson, who played small forward for the Suns, was a key to the club's running, gunning style. He averaged 14.9 points on 39 percent shooting, and pulled down enough rebounds (6.1 per game) to allow the Suns to go with a small lineup.

He slumped, however, at the end of the regular season and in the playoffs. He averaged 11.9 points on 40 percent shooting (39 percent on 3-pointers) in the post-season, The Suns were starting to shift a bit away from "small ball" in the playoffs when they used big men Amaré Stoudemire and Steven Hunter in the lineup together on several occasions.

Thomas could be used as a starting center, or as a backup at the power forward and center spots, depending on the matchups.

While the Suns aren't expected to throw away their fastest-in-basketball tempo and small lineups completely, club officials felt they needed more beef in the middle, particularly when matched up against teams such as the San Antonio Spurs.

The deal also gives the Suns a better option up front than Hunter, who could be difficult to sign in the off-season.

The Suns are expected to offer him the so-called "million-dollar exception" to the salary cap (worth about $1.6 million), but Hunter may want twice this much.

The Suns are believed to be unwilling to pay this much to Hunter, who was inconsistent last season, while trying to come up with money to re-sign Joe Johnson, a restricted free agent.

Richardson is under contract for five more seasons, while Thomas has three years left. A deal saves the Suns $16 million in salary commitments, the source said.

The Suns last summer lured Richardson, who was a restricted free agent, away from the Los Angeles Clippers with a $43.5 million offer over six years. The Clippers declined to match the offer. Richardson set franchise records by making 226 3-point shots (which tied for the league lead) and attempting 631 (which led the league). Suns president Bryan Colangelo, indicating the Richardson deal hasn't been finalized, declined to comment.

Thomas told the Bergen Record that the deal "sounds like it will" go down.
Thomas is from Dallas, likes warm weather and is believed to be pleased with the proposed trade.

Thomas is considered a solid defensive player who excels at shooting the mid-range jumper while running the two-man game on offense. He is not a low-post scoring threat.

Thomas, who turns 33 in October, averaged a double-double for the first time this season: 11.5 points and 10.4 rebounds.

He has three years and about $22 million left on his contract. "You know what he's going to give you night in and night out," Knicks coach Herb Williams said of Thomas this season.

"His basketball IQ is very high. He's just a pro."

Richardson would replace Allan Houston, whose two years and $39.8 million the Knicks will likely buy out via a clause in the new labor agreement that allows them to avoid the luxury tax for one such player this summer.

Knicks president Isiah Thomas apparently likes Richardson because he is a fan of the Suns' style of play. He praised the Suns lavishly after the Suns routed the Knicks in New York this past season. Even if the Richardson deal goes through as expected, the Suns still are expected to try to re-sign Hunter.

"It's hard to find 7-footers with athleticism," said Hunter's agent, Mark Bartlestein.

"He'd love to be back (with the Suns)," Bartlestein said. "If we can work something out, that's great. But right now, I'm not sure."

 

[cly2tw]

Q has a great attitude! With this positive attitude, with the great prospect of the team's future, I was sure he would have worked his butts off to improve in every area needed to help the Suns win and get rid of the bad habits 4 years Clippers had left on him. I'm really sad we will lose him.

 

[cly2tw]

One site interpreted this article as "Q deal not happening tonight, might be off table completely"

I wouldn't go that far, but apparently there is a snag....

I actually do hope it fails.
Maybe it's just a guesture to make public our resolve to resign Joe for any price!

 

[PhxGametime]

I've finally read every post, I had ideas I was planning to write but well everybody pretty much, mentioned everything...


The only thing I will really say, if the teams Draft a G/F or PG and move Barbosa to SG - there will be plenty of minutes for skillball. JJack played really well, while JJ and Q were out and with an added Draft Pick... plus Amare Stoudemire with Kurt Thomas on roster can work harder on defensive end. KT is capable of scoring 11+, rebounding 10+, passing 2+, 1+ steals/blocks, and hitting the mid range shot better than Amare Stoudemire possibly (I have no proof) but he can shoot better than McDyess did the year with us - he struggled a lot of the games I watched early in that area (remember he was only on team for like 15-20 games)...


Kurt Thomas can fill the role Stat does alongside Marion at the F/C spots, while Stat is resting or in foul trouble... I haven't yet checked DREB but I'm sure it's pretty decent.


Most everybody wanted an enforcer, not sure what's to complain about now... he averaged as many assists as Q, near the steals, and obviously a much better rebounder and shotblocker.


Most everybody will miss Q, I know I will (if Trade happens) but I can come up with a few Prospects in Draft that can fill Q's role...

 

[fordronken]

Right, that's certainly possible. Back when this trade was just random unfounded speculation -- you know, earlier today -- I said that I couldn't decide which of Thomas or Smith I would prefer, eventually siding narrowly with Smith because of his age. But now I'm just continuing to pimp Smith because I think it's funny.

Sorry. I just got an image of you actually pimping Joe Smith.

 

[Biclops]

The Deal is Done

The Deal Is Done: Richardson Traded For Thomas
NY Post - 06/24 - 2:34 AM EST
As first reported by RealGm.com, the Knicks and Suns agreed to their second trade in 17 months with Kurt Thomas being shipped to Phoenix for 6-6 swingman Quentin Richardson and a protected, future first-round pick.

The first-round pick can be used by the Knicks at the earliest in 2007 but is protected beyond the lottery. The delay in announcing the deal involved a minor insurance issue regarding a prior Richardson back injury that's not likely to kill the deal.

For months, Isiah Thomas has said he's planning as if Allan Houston is not on the team next season. A new collective bargaining agreement clause paves the way for the potential waiving of the arthritic-kneed Houston. The Knicks would be liable for the two years and $40 million left on his contract but would not have to pay additional dollar-for-dollar luxury tax on the salary (another $40M). The Knicks can't approach Houston with the idea until mid-July when the CBA is signed. If Houston goes, only Michael Sweetney remains pre-Isiah.

Richardson, who signed a five-year, $37 million deal last July, will likely start at shooting guard with Jamal Crawford going to the bench. The Knicks took on $15 million in future salary. [READ]