Knock on Woods

[Southpaw]

It seems eerie that the perceived problem with Jerry Sullivan was that he had no prior experience as an offensive coordinator and his background was as a receivers coach. Now Green hires a guy with the same background. No OC experience and a receivers coach. WOW!

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by wallyburger
It seems eerie that the perceived problem with Jerry Sullivan was that he had no prior experience as an offensive coordinator and his background was as a receivers coach. Now Green hires a guy with the same background. No OC experience and a receivers coach. WOW!

I think he was in college a HC and OC.

 

[spanky1]

Sullivan was our OC last year......need we say more. Also Wood has been more than just a WR coach during his career (RB's and Qb's) as well as a HC in college. Sullivan is one dimensional.

 

[arthurracoon]

Wood played running back at Iowa when Green was the running backs/receivers coach and coached quarterbacks for the Vikings from 1999 to 2002. He was a college coach for 21 years prior to joining the Vikings, including four seasons as the head coach at James Madison, where he compiled a 23-22 record.

In Minnesota, Wood tutored quarterback Daunte Culpepper.

In Cincinnati this year, Wood's starting receivers had career years in every category. Chad Johnson is starting in the Pro Bowl with 90 catches and an AFC-leading 1,355 yards. He scored 10 touchdowns. Peter Warrick caught 79 passes and had seven touchdown receptions.

Here is a quote from another article.

He is obviously very knowledgeable in many positions and is DEFINATELY much more experienced (as an OC) the Jerry Sullivan.

 

[jf-08]

Green will implement the offense and Woods will execute. I don't think there is much of a worry here.


Now the defense on the other hand.......................

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by arthurracoon
I think he was in college a HC and OC.

I don't know if head coach at James Madison University qualifies as training for the NFL.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by jkf296
Green will implement the offense and Woods will execute. I don't think there is much of a worry here.


Now the defense on the other hand.......................

I sure hope Green can multi task. It seems that some of the posters to the forum would have Green selling tickets, running the offense, making player personnel decisions, and running the P R department.

 

[jf-08]

Originally posted by wallyburger
I sure hope Green can multi task. It seems that some of the posters to the forum would have Green selling tickets, running the offense, making player personnel decisions, and running the P R department.

One of the successes that Green brings here is the development of personnel. I have a pretty good feeling that he will be integral in the offense strategy. But again, I am concerned on the other side of the ball.

 

[JeffGollin]

Re: "Multitasking"

Only thing that will count this fall will be if our offense is aggressive, unpredictable, well-executed, turnover-free and puts points on the board.

There are plenty of different ways to skin a cat. The coaching structure of our offense is less important than its results.

Like others, I'm less concerned about how Dennis will accomplish this (his track record is proof-perfect).

The defense is a totally different story. This has never been a Green forte, and he will need strong people on his staff he can delegate to - who can build a really good defense. (It's early, but on this side of the ball, Dennis hasn't made any coaching moves that impress me so far).

 

[Brighteyes]

I think the difference with Sullivan is that he had no ambition to be an OC -- and seemed to be taken by surprise by the job. He had no concept of clock management, or getting plays in on time.

Most people have wanted the position -- on the way to being a head coach -- most of their careers, and are more prepared to step into the shoes.

Further, all the things that Sullivan didn't understand were not Mac's area either (as he grew up on the defensive side of the ball). I can't see Green's offense ever having trouble getting plays in.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by jkf296
One of the successes that Green brings here is the development of personnel. I have a pretty good feeling that he will be integral in the offense strategy. But again, I am concerned on the other side of the ball.

Time will tell, but after 40 + years of loyalty, my patience is worn. If The Cards go through another 4 years of treading water, I just may have to give it up. It doesn't look good. There are 8 new head coaches out there putting together staffs, and somehow I just can't imagine the good ones coming to the Cards. That is history.

 

[SunCityCarl]

Originally posted by wallyburger
It seems eerie that the perceived problem with Jerry Sullivan was that he had no prior experience as an offensive coordinator and his background was as a receivers coach. Now Green hires a guy with the same background. No OC experience and a receivers coach. WOW!

Wally I gotta side with you on this except for the fact this will be "Green's Version of Walsh's offense"... I think our concern should be on defense & the people Denny brings in to run it. Reading between the lines this Solomon guy (our new DB coach) has not come with any ringing endorsements. BTW is it normal to hire defense position coaches before a DC? I would think as a DC I'd like to have a say in whom my underlings would be...

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by wallyburger
It seems eerie that the perceived problem with Jerry Sullivan was that he had no prior experience as an offensive coordinator and his background was as a receivers coach. Now Green hires a guy with the same background. No OC experience and a receivers coach. WOW!

True but the difference is Green is going to run the offense anyways, with Mac we didn't have that luxury.

I think Woods is OTJ training for sure.

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by SunCityCarl
Wally I gotta side with you on this except for the fact this will be "Green's Version of Walsh's offense"... I think our concern should be on defense & the people Denny brings in to run it. Reading between the lines this Solomon guy (our new DB coach) has not come with any ringing endorsements. BTW is it normal to hire defense position coaches before a DC? I would think as a DC I'd like to have a say in whom my underlings would be...

Good point on the DC before D position coaches.

Unlike you, I am not concerned with the Defense. I love offense. If you take a look at the teams in the playoffs, like Colts, Rams, KC, Seattle, GB, NE, etc. They all know how to score. I know most of them have been eliminated, but they are fun to watch. My otherv team is the Dolphins and they wouldn't recognize a TD if it bit them on a butt. Boring team. Offense is excitement in my book. Ya gotta outscore them to beat them.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

My only problem with the Woods hire is having to suffer through endless renditions of the "Ickey Shuffle"!

You must be registered for see images

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by Russ Smith
True but the difference is Green is going to run the offense anyways, with Mac we didn't have that luxury.

I think Woods is OTJ training for sure.

Is that any different than Mac running the defense?

Because using that logic, then Marmie would have been unaccountable. I would like to see a head coach make game decisons, with 2 accountable Coordinators in place to do the mechanical aspects.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by wallyburger
Is that any different than Mac running the defense?

Because using that logic, then Marmie would have been unaccountable. I would like to see a head coach make game decisons, with 2 accountable Coordinators in place to do the mechanical aspects.

Yes because Green made the playoffs 8 times in 10 years heavily involved in the offense in Minnesota, he has a proven track record as an offensive coach. Mac had a proven track record of an underperforming DC. For everyone who says that was Billick I remind them how well Billick's offenses have done since he went to Baltimore.

Sure it would be great if Denny didn't have to be the OC but it's not that unusual, who calls the plays in Denver Shanahan or Kubiak? Kubiak is largely a glorified QB coach who's learning to be an OC, that's why despite all the accolades, he isn't getting flooded with HC offers.

The concern as others have said is will Green pay enough attention to the defense, I have very little concern about his offense given time he'll get that straightened out, he always has in the past.

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Yes because Green made the playoffs 8 times in 10 years heavily involved in the offense in Minnesota, he has a proven track record as an offensive coach. Mac had a proven track record of an underperforming DC. For everyone who says that was Billick I remind them how well Billick's offenses have done since he went to Baltimore.

Sure it would be great if Denny didn't have to be the OC but it's not that unusual, who calls the plays in Denver Shanahan or Kubiak? Kubiak is largely a glorified QB coach who's learning to be an OC, that's why despite all the accolades, he isn't getting flooded with HC offers.

The concern as others have said is will Green pay enough attention to the defense, I have very little concern about his offense given time he'll get that straightened out, he always has in the past.

But that is straying from my original thought, which was " strangely parallel to the former situation".

 

[TheCardFan]

Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by wallyburger
I don't know if head coach at James Madison University qualifies as training for the NFL.

But that is straying from my original thought, which was " strangely parallel to the former situation".

Wally...come on!

Are you still trying to be critical?

You wanted Fassel...ok, he didn't make it.
You don't like Green and complained about how long it has taken to complete his staff.
Now you are complaining about who he has picked.

The difference between this year and last year is that McGinnis was a D coach and the OC was pretty much on his own for designing and calling the offense.

This year, we have an O coach and the OC will be responsible for implementing Coach Green's offensive system and Green will have alot of input. Not to mention, Wood was a HC and OC already.

That is not "strangely parallel".

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by TheCardFan
Wally...come on!

Are you still trying to be critical?

You wanted Fassel...ok, he didn't make it.
You don't like Green and complained about how long it has taken to complete his staff.
Now you are complaining about who he has picked.

The difference between this year and last year is that McGinnis was a D coach and the OC was pretty much on his own for designing and calling the offense.

This year, we have an O coach and the OC will be responsible for implemting Coach Green's offensive system and Green will have alot of input. Not to mention, Wood was a HC and OC already.

I'm not trying. I am being.

What's wrong with that? I think it strange that many of the criticisms of Mac are being mirrored so far by Green's regime. I find it quite ironic, that maybe the same fans are giving a free pass to Green and maybe criticized Mac for similarities, and we all know Mac's way didn't work. Patchwork staff. Inexperienced staff.

Difference of opinion is what makes this forum worth reading. It's not a crime to disagree.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by wallyburger
But that is straying from my original thought, which was " strangely parallel to the former situation".

Depends, I took you to be saying that we're going to have the same inept offense this year because the OC is from a similar background, thus my comments about Green. If you're just saying hey Woods and Sullivan have a similar background, it's true.

Green simply will take a lot of pressure off Woods, Sully had nobody like that to turn to.

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Depends, I took you to be saying that we're going to have the same inept offense this year because the OC is from a similar background, thus my comments about Green. If you're just saying hey Woods and Sullivan have a similar background, it's true.

Green simply will take a lot of pressure off Woods, Sully had nobody like that to turn to.

Nope wrong take. My fault for not clarifying my point adequately. Woods & Sullivan similarities is what I meant to convey.

Using your logic about Green / Woods combo, I hope it works out better than the Mac/Marmie alliance, because the defense surely did suck.

 

[TheCardFan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by wallyburger
I'm not trying. I am being.

What's wrong with that? I think it strange that many of the criticisms of Mac are being mirrored so far by Green's regime. I find it quite ironic, that maybe the same fans are giving a free pass to Green and maybe criticized Mac for similarities, and we all know Mac's way didn't work. Patchwork staff. Inexperienced staff.

Difference of opinion is what makes this forum worth reading. It's not a crime to disagree.

Good points...

IMO, Mac's criticisms were based on keeping coaches that haven't proven they can coach up players on our team (Greene, Marmie, Roland, etc.). Sullivan was a tremedous hire but then fell into the "Peter Principle".

Green's staff is not inexperienced and not patchworked. I like Woods , Wilson, and Wetzel.

The big questions for me:

Who will be DC?
Will he hire Solomon and Hargrave as positional coaches?

No Wally, it's not a crime to disagree but I was merely pointing out the bias in your thread. This is not a "strangely parallel" situation and although your opinion of Green is not favorable(and not my disagreement), it is your bias showing through on your posts that I am talking about.

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

No Wally, it's not a crime to disagree but I was merely pointing out the bias in your thread. This is not a "strangely parallel" situation and although your opinion of Green is not favorable(and not my disagreement), it is your bias showing through on your posts that I am talking about. [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't understand the bias accusation. Please explain.

 

[ajcardfan]

Re: Re: Re: Knock on Woods

Originally posted by wallyburger
Is that any different than Mac running the defense?

Because using that logic, then Marmie would have been unaccountable. I would like to see a head coach make game decisons, with 2 accountable Coordinators in place to do the mechanical aspects.

Well, more than a year after Mac took the HC job we had the starting MLB saying on the radio that the Cardinals "run Tobin's defense".

There's no way that McGinnis was a defensive guru anywhere near Green's level of guru when it comes to running an offense.

JMO.

Not many head coaches have very little input into the schemes on either side of the ball. They got the job in the first place by being really good at coaching offense or defense, they aren't going to just say very little about the side of the ball they feel is their expertise.