Knowing what you know now....

[Arizona's Finest]

I saw this coming a year ago when many of us starting ripping DA and trying to find the fastest ticket out of town for him. But this is no time for "I told you so..." as this team is falling apart at the seams and its emabarrassing to watch.

I have heard Terry Porter talk a couple times and when he speaks I am looking around and thinking "Kerr thought this yokel was a good fit to come in a direct cererbral players like Nash and Hill?"

This started with Sarver (does he have any defenders anymore?) getting to big for his britches and jettionsing BC.

But obviously the biggest turning point was losing D'Antoni. IMO he is the best coach to ever be on the sideline for this team and rather then let him go I am of the opinion we should have paid big money for a defensive assistant (Thibedeux?) and a defensive stalwart (KG? - again screw Shawn Marion) to help with his defeciences.

So knowing what you know - how many of you would trade this idiot Porter for another round with DA - and that's the only option.

I am interested to see how many fans realize what we lost...

Good thing the Cardinals are playing (relatively) well because I am somewhat numb to all of this. But its obvious this team is a disaster right now and I am going to be hardcore into the NBA in about a month and half. I am just hoping there is something left to watch....

 

[asudevil83]

I'd say this franchise would have been screwed either way, with those two boneheads upstairs.

also, with DA, we were not developing ANY young talent, and trading pick after pick away. we would have ended up in the same situation no matter what with aging talent and their inability to play a specific system.

even if we had held onto DA, what would our roster have looked like next season?

Amare/Diaw/GH/Bell/Nash with Barbosa/Barnes/Dragic/Lopez off the bench. no cap space, and no progressing young talent, along with no picks

 

[SirStefan32]

Doesn't matter. You can have Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich coaching this team and it wouldn't make any difference.

 

[Cheesebeef]

to be honest, for the long term health of the franchise... I'd rather have Porter. DA could have easily made us a pretender again this year which would have gotten our asses kicked out of the playoffs like last year but all that would have done is masked the fact that we need to blow this thing up... yesterday. At least with Porter there's no way to mask the fact that this team needs to be blown up.

Keeping DA would have been pouring perfume on a pig so to speak. He's a good enough coach where we'd be in the playoffs as a low seed, but who the hell cares about getting into the playoffs when you're team is older than dirt and has no shot to win. Porter is a good man to do a horrible job - he's effectively in charge of burning the village down to save it.

now, that's not to say Porter's the man to build it back up. He's not. But that's not the question asked.

the best thing for this team right now is for the team to realize the run is over and start rebuilding. that was my opinion right after the playoffs (and really was my opinion last summer with the moves we made). Porter's the right man to make that point blatantly obvious and since blatantly obvious is the only thing that probably gets thru to SarvKerr, Porter's the choice.

 

[DeAnna]

I heard the tv commentators say a couple of times last night vs Mavs that the Suns had lost their mojo, their swagger, their confidence.

That's what's missing the most from D'Antoni's "system." Because it wasn't just the mechanical aspects of basketball they were involved in. Most of their "system" is based on positive reinforcement and instilling swagger and confidence in their players. How do you think Amare's head got so big, thinking he's much better than he really is? How do you think Phil Weber still has a job?

I bet they don't do the daily video montage for the players anymore. that was a staple with the previous regime - they put together a montage of the previous game highlights and showed it to the players to get them pumped up.

And the head coach himself (while being and easy-going 'nice guy') was full of self-confidence (some might call it arrogance).

Right now, Porter doesn't exude confidence; especially when you sit your starters down with more than 5 minutes left and down by 20.

 

[Mulli]

Oops, meant to vote for Terry Porter. Not that I like him much.

 

[Bufalay]

Keeping DA would have been pouring perfume on a pig so to speak.

This is the version of the saying that Obama should've used.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This is the version of the saying that Obama should've used.

Still would have been sexist to those easily offended....

 

[Cheesebeef]

I heard the tv commentators say a couple of times last night vs Mavs that the Suns had lost their mojo, their swagger, their confidence.

That's what's missing the most from D'Antoni's "system." Because it wasn't just the mechanical aspects of basketball they were involved in. Most of their "system" is based on positive reinforcement and instilling swagger and confidence in their players. How do you think Amare's head got so big, thinking he's much better than he really is? How do you think Phil Weber still has a job?

I bet they don't do the daily video montage for the players anymore. that was a staple with the previous regime - they put together a montage of the previous game highlights and showed it to the players to get them pumped up.

And the head coach himself (while being and easy-going 'nice guy') was full of self-confidence (some might call it arrogance).

Right now, Porter doesn't exude confidence; especially when you sit your starters down with more than 5 minutes left and down by 20.

does everyone forget that despite our record, that Suns team was miserable last year. DA was exploding at Phil Jackson two games into the season (and the media pretty much every game after that), Nash was talking about how the team just didn't seem to play real hard, Marion demanded a trade before the season started, etc, etc. Last year's team had no mojo. They were just a year younger/fresher and with an actual HC. But mojo/confidence they didn't have.

 

[Covert Rain]

Just because Porter might not be the right man for job doesn't mean we should have stuck with D'Antoni. D'Antoni never was and never will win a title playing small ball. It was time for a change regardless of how this team is playing this year.

In fact, I think this team will still be playing worse this year D'Antoni or no D'Antoni. Maybe, not this bad offensively but still worse. This team has been slipping for the past 2 seasons now. Did we forget our recent playoff success under D'Antoni?? I have said it before and I will say it again....I think one of the factors in D'Antoni leaving is he had seen this coming.

It was time for a change. However, this is not the change everybody was hoping for.

 

[Maligzar]

I'd say this franchise would have been screwed either way, with those two boneheads upstairs.

also, with DA, we were not developing ANY young talent, and trading pick after pick away. we would have ended up in the same situation no matter what with aging talent and their inability to play a specific system.

even if we had held onto DA, what would our roster have looked like next season?

Amare/Diaw/GH/Bell/Nash with Barbosa/Barnes/Dragic/Lopez off the bench. no cap space, and no progressing young talent, along with no picks

You seem confused.

D'Antoni was GM only in name, he didn't make the call to trade any young talent away. That was done by Dave Griffin at Sarver's direction. If you recall D'Antoni has been very busy over the summers with the Men's National team.

There are a lot of fair knocks on D'Antoni, but trading the players and picks away is not one of them. He wasn't playing our young talent because our young talent sucked. Which is exactly why Stawberry was released and Tucker still struggles to get minutes.

Additionally, there is no reason to belive that the Stawberry for Singletarry deal would not of happened with Mike.

Sorry but your assessment here is just way off. Lopez and Dragic are both young progressing talent that would have played fine in Mike's system. In fact, there are times I wonder if Lopez would be better than Shaq as the 5 in Mike's offense.

Anyways, when they started moving out Mike's players 2 summers back really marked the end of Mike's time here. I really wish Sarver would have done the wise thing and followed the Collangelo's advice instead of Steve Kerr's.

 

[Chaplin]

Where's the "neither one" option? Porter has no clue how to coach THIS team. He may be able to coach basketball, but he doesn't know how to coach the Phoenix Suns as they are assembled right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Where's the "neither one" option? Porter has no clue how to coach THIS team. He may be able to coach basketball, but he doesn't know how to coach the Phoenix Suns as they are assembled right now.

It's easier to say I told you so to answers the limit the opportunity to disagree with the premise. (that sentence probably reads like it makes no sense, but I think you get the point).

basically, the poll is tailored made for the author of it to say "I told you so".

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Okay I guess thats fair and I agree with Cheese in that maybe this was necessary to do the smart thing and blow it up.

So how do you want to go about doing that? Start trading away for prospects and cap space. Bring in an established/young star?

This is going to sound crazy but I would make a run for Joe in 2010. Until then I would be intrigued by a trade like what the Celtics did with KG. Bring back a high ceiling yougin for an establised player like Amare.

I know this contradicts my desire for Joe Johnson but maybe Amare for OJ Mayo? Or LaMarcus Aldridge? Devin Harris?

If we do trade Amare it BETTER no be for cap space and mediocre players. If we are going to trade him it better be for someone who can contribute now and beyond.

And for what its worth I would have kept DA and got him supplemental (defense) help on both the coaching staff and players.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It's easier to say I told you so to answers the limit the opportunity to disagree with the premise. (that sentence probably reads like it makes no sense, but I think you get the point).

basically, the poll is tailored made for the author of it to say "I told you so".

Ahh Cheese you know me too well. I am guessing the fact that I actually wrote "I told you so..." in the post wasn't subtle enough

Actually that wasn't my point. My point is personally I would rather have had D'Antoni still here and that we were looking a gift horse in the mouth. For all his apparent shortcomings (lack of rotation, not playing the rookies *i think this was more FO induced*, and lack of defense) he did a lot of great things here and everywhere you go you hear players saying how much they love him and how innovative he is.

I don't think he was the reason we didn't win a chamiponship. In fact the Amares -less 2006 season was one of the best coaching jobs I have EVER seen and think even PJAX would have been hard pressed to get that level of results. The players getting off the bench and injuires are what derailed us IMO.

Winning like we did isn't handed to you. I think many of us (and even me to a degree) took that for granted.

Oh well. I guess I am a big Mike fan and seeing what we have now makes that even more pronounced. There is more then one way to win in the NBA IMO.

Says here he will win championship(s) in NY when he get Lebron/Bosh to go there.

 

[nashman]

Also players actually wanted to come here to play for Mike, thats out the window. How in the world are the Suns going to be a target destination for FA's now...its not!
No one is going to want to come here now, no reason for them to want to.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Okay I guess thats fair and I agree with Cheese in that maybe this was necessary to do the smart thing and blow it up.

So how do you want to go about doing that? Start trading away for prospects and cap space. Bring in an established/young star?

the first thing you have to do? Fire Steve Kerr. Then trade Nash for whatever you can get and if you can't get anything good then at least make someone take Boris' contract with him. Then you tank for the rest of the season to make sure we get a lotto pick and with the right GM in place, you NAIL that lottery pick.

And for what its worth I would have kept DA and got him supplemental (defense) help on both the coaching staff and players.

problem was DA apparently didn't want or think he needed supplemental help. Apparently this was the tact (or at least part of the tact - the other being make Amare a low post threat... which was idiotic) Kerr tried to take with him after this season asking him to practice more D and DA basically told him to f off.

 

[msdundee]

I heard the tv commentators say a couple of times last night vs Mavs that the Suns had lost their mojo, their swagger, their confidence.

Obviously, and for good reason. Although the topic would suggest blaming or crediting the coaching for what currently appears to be a complete meltdown, recent comments from the team sound more like it's a result of player interaction deteriorating to a whole new level. The coach can promote that essential team spirit to some degree but kindergarten art projects aren't likely to work.

There was an "us against the world" cohesion throughout the DA years that led to what could almost be called overachievement. Fans and the league in general watched players who trusted each other and played unselfishly and focused on the W, resulting in the exciting and "entertaining" basketball that unfortunately didn't get the Suns a title. Enter Kerr and his upheaval of the status quo, designed to win it all.

Now, instead of the "us against the world" attitude, it's beginning to look more like an "us against each other" situation with players nitpicking over leadership ... and whose team it is ... and touches ... and where they do or don't fit into the grand scheme. No doubt they're aggravating each other with all the grousing to the media. It would be surprising if there was not some resentment about coddling certain players, no matter what the reasoning. Individually the players are unhappy because as a team they're dysfunctional.

A string of wins would probably help, even a string of two.....

 

[Covert Rain]

This would only qualify as an I told you so thread if your premise is that the team would be better off but still without a championship. It's a pretty empty I told you so if the premise is that we would have a few more wins, get bounced form the playoffs in the 1st round and not make any progress from the last 2 years.

Honestly...memories seem to be short here. This team has progressively gotten worse under D'Antoni the last 2 seasons. We have 3 starters who are getting older each season and whose numbers are declining.

If a title is our end game....we 100% would not be better off with D'Antoni this year. However, if playing more exciting basketball, getting bounced from the playoffs and again going home without a title is the crux of your "I told you so".....let me be the first to say congratulations.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This would only qualify as an I told you so thread if your premise is that the team would be better off but still without a championship. It's a pretty empty I told you so, if the premise is that we would have a few more wins, get bounced form the playoffs in the 1st round and not make any progress from last year.

Honestly...memories seem to be short here. This team has progressively gotten worse under D'Antoni the last 2 seasons. We have 3 starters who are getting older each season and whose numbers are declining.

If a title is our end game....we 100% would not be better off with D'Antoni this year. However, if playing more exciting basketball, getting bounced from the playoffs and again going home without a title is the crux of your "I told you so".....let me be the first to say congratulations.

Again - I guess I just disagree with you that you think we couldn't have won a ring with D'Antoni. Maybe not with this group AT THIS POINT (the run was/is over) but I think we could have revamped and he STILL would have been the right coach to make that transition. I think people think that anyone other then top 3 coaches would have been able to generate as much success with the same group of players we had the last few years. For an extended period the only time we were that close was the early 90's. And that sure as hell had little to do with the coaching.

And you would have to admit that we were at least close to a ring with Mike. Watch how far we go the other way with Porter.

So again. This isn't so much a "told you so" thread. It's more - does anyone else feel that maybe Mike wasn't the problem as much as we would have liked to thought? In fact I would say now he was hamstrung by the cost cutting trades (Joe, KT, Iggy/Deng, Rondo, Fernandez) and was doing well with what he had to work with.

I guess I stand alone on that one. But the pain is just beginning Suns fans. For all of us who want to "blow it up" (and I concede that was/is probably the right thing to do - I just wouldn't have gotton rid of D'Antoni) remember it takes acumen, vision, and more then just a little luck to make that happen and get you back to contender status.

I will cheer and cheer and continue to follow. But I am not hopeful for that in the near future.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

At least I can HOPE it will get better with Porter, with Dantoni I knew was I was going to get.

 

[nashman]

The fun Suns team that we all loved to watch left town with DA period. Porter is a fairly inexperienced HC with little upside IMO, not sure what Kerr was thinking but then again what has Kerr done right? We have downgraded our HC and totally tried to change the game these players have played for years, is it really surprising that its not working? I personally think these players are still talented enough to win and win alot, but not trying to play Porters half court system. A good HC would realize he doesn't have the players to play Pistons ball and would adjust to the personel that we have. We have seen strange and confusing rotations, Porter is simply put in over his head imo, he looks lost and confused and simply doesn't seem to know what to do.

 

[AfroSuns]

I picked D'Antoni because i have always felt that D'antoni with a good defensive coach would have being the best option, Yes DA has a lot of issues but he is an offensive genius.
If the current losses is due to the new system only, then the kinks would eventually work itself out but it is beginning to appear like Porter is just being out coached and he appears to have bitten more than he can chew in the form of trying to coach veterans. I wont be surprised if Nash and Shaq are thinking "Heck i can do a better job than this dude" , when it appears he dosent have an answer.
Who is to say Dragic wouldnt have blossomed under D'Antoni and i refuse to believe the NBA is the reason he is ineffective, yes NBA is different from Europe but it is still basketball after all.
Porter will probably have being more effective under DA as a defensive Assistant (probably wont take the job) but he took on a team with more offensive talent than the one he was assisting on. I wont be surprised if he is fired before All-Stars if he cant figure out this team or profer a solution.

I don't expect Mr Robert "Chintzy" Sarver to spend a lot for FAs not with all the financial and economy crisis.

 

[Griffin]

I picked D'Antoni because i have always felt that D'antoni with a good defensive coach would have being the best option

Personally, I don't believe that a good defensive coach can turn a bad defensive team into a good one. So far, Porter has done nothing to change my mind. I think D'Antoni realized the limitations of this team and orchestrated a system that tried to capitalize on the team's strengths while hiding their weaknesses. Porter seems to be doing quite the opposite.

I wont be surprised if he is fired before All-Stars if he cant figure out this team or profer a solution.

He probably won't be fired if for no other reason than that Sarver will not want to pay the remaining sum of his contract. Had D'Antoni not been able to find another job, he still would have been here.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mike D'Antoni was an immensely successful coach with the Suns. The record speaks for itself. There is no spinning around that. D'Antoni brought the Suns seemingly easy success which made some fans think the players were better than the coaching. Well it turns D'Antoni maximized the players talents. The Suns do not have the players to be a good defensive team.

Well the naysayers got what they wanted and now D'Antoni got pushed out of town. Enjoy the idea the Suns are heading in the right direction even if it turns out the Suns are losing their pants.