Kobe to Golden State?

[George O'Brien]

The hottest item on the rumor boards is that Golden State would trade Dampier ($8,105,500) and Van Exel ($11,821,750) to the Blazers for Sheed Wallace ($17 million). (I would guess that Quentel Woods would also go to GS to make the numbers work)

If GS does this, they would clear almost $20 million and drop their salary structure to $22.8 million. They easily could also move SG Jason Richardson to clear another $3.5 million.

Assuming the Cap is at $45 million, they could match Kobe's current $14.6 million if he stays with the Lakers and still have up to $7.6 million to re-sign Wallace without having to move Richardson. (I'm guessing Wallace gets less because there aren't that many teams with cap space that would take him).

Most estimates are that the Suns could not offer more than about $13 million. If the Warriors make that trade, they would have no problem outbidding the Suns for Kobe.

Another thing about GS, the stain of being an adulterer would have little impact in the Bay Area (unlike Utah and Colorado where the trial is part of the daily news).

If GS has the money, it would be really hard for the Suns to compete for Kobe.

 

[Chaplin]

Weren't we just talking about that on the other thread?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
The hottest item on the rumor boards is that Golden State would trade Dampier ($8,105,500) and Van Exel ($11,821,750) to the Blazers for Sheed Wallace ($17 million). (I would guess that Quentel Woods would also go to GS to make the numbers work)

If GS does this, they would clear almost $20 million and drop their salary structure to $22.8 million. They easily could also move SG Jason Richardson to clear another $3.5 million.

Assuming the Cap is at $45 million, they could match Kobe's current $14.6 million if he stays with the Lakers and still have up to $7.6 million to re-sign Wallace without having to move Richardson. (I'm guessing Wallace gets less because there aren't that many teams with cap space that would take him).

Most estimates are that the Suns could not offer more than about $13 million. If the Warriors make that trade, they would have no problem outbidding the Suns for Kobe.

Another thing about GS, the stain of being an adulterer would have little impact in the Bay Area (unlike Utah and Colorado where the trial is part of the daily news).

If GS has the money, it would be really hard for the Suns to compete for Kobe.

Part of the Suns' efforts to entice Kobe will revolve around more than just money. I hope you're not ignoring that. In fact, the reasons people think he might go to the Clippers are strictly non-financial as well.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Weren't we just talking about that on the other thread?

The focus on the other thread was the nature of the trade, rather than the Kobe factor.

Yes, I agree that there are factors other than money involved. But unless Kobe's affection for Mike is a lot bigger deal than I think it is, I'm not sure that the Suns are that much better off in terms of intangibles.

Both teams have some young, up and coming players. Both teams are in smaller markets than LA or NY, but the Bay Area has about twice the population as Phoenix. The Colangelos have a repuation for being good recruiters. The Bay Area has a reputation for being tollerant.

The unfortunate part of the process (assuming you want Kobe) is that the negotiations would be in the summer. Comparing summer in Phoenix and summer in San Francisco is not going to win Phoenix any points.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien


The unfortunate part of the process (assuming you want Kobe) is that the negotiations would be in the summer. Comparing summer in Phoenix and summer in San Francisco is not going to win Phoenix any points.

But comparing Phoenix in winter and San Francisco in winter sure is. Especially if he's used to LA weather.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The Bay area has TWICE the population of phoenix?!?!? Since when is that?

Phx was ranked #6 in population with about 600,000 more people than San Francisco in 2000.

The intangibles are very different IMO. My grandparents are from the bay area, so I follow the warriors off and on.

First off, we have a perfect complimentary player in Shawn Marion. He doesn't need the ball to be effective, no plays need to be run for him. I think we can agree Kobe will enjoy that. We also have a star in the making PF. Those two players can be the focal point of the offense. Amare doesn't have the reputation, or the attitude that Shaq has, so I don't think that Kobe will be bothered by another player wanting the ball.

GS would have to loose richardson to get Kobe, since they both only play 1 position. They loose their defensive presence in Dampier. Foyle is a FA this summer, so they will loose him to most likely. The best point is Dunleavy, but between him and Amare, I think Amare wins hands down.

Then the reputation of the organization and front office. The suns have one of the best, the Warriors, well not so much over the last decade.


The suns at least commit to a plan and stick it out (all beit for a few years). The warriors haven't had a game plan in forever.


Also, for the suns to get under the cap, we have to loose either Eisley or White and picks. That isn't really that much compared to when the warriors have to loose Dampier and NVE. Our team would be in much better shape for the future than the Warriors.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
The Bay area has TWICE the population of phoenix?!?!? Since when is that?

Phx was ranked #6 in population with about 600,000 more people than San Francisco in 2000.

The entire Bay Area television market is roughly 6 million. It gets confusing because the South Bay (San Jose, etc) are sometimes treated as separate markets, but most people view the entire area as one market.

 

[boisesuns]

with all the talk about kobe, where does joe johnson fit in? i'm not saying he's as good as kobe and will ever be. as nice as it would be to have kobe on the team, it seems like bumping off a increasingly solid role player(sometimes the main guy) might not be a good thing. he's younger, has no "issues", and is playing very well and is cheaper.

given the chance, kobe would be great. but putting joe back on the bench might not be a good idea either.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by boisesuns
with all the talk about kobe, where does joe johnson fit in? i'm not saying he's as good as kobe and will ever be. as nice as it would be to have kobe on the team, it seems like bumping off a increasingly solid role player(sometimes the main guy) might not be a good thing. he's younger, has no "issues", and is playing very well and is cheaper.

given the chance, kobe would be great. but putting joe back on the bench might not be a good idea either.

I think Joe can still become a 1. SOmeone today mentioned that it would be interesting if we didn't have a "traditional" point guard. With Kobe and JJ in the backcourt, we'd have two guys that can set up the offense, and that's really all we need from the 1 spot.

 

[Chaz]

I think there is also a factor of Amare being a big fan of Shaq. He gets advice from him and so forth.

If Kobe can't get along with Shaq and "wants his own team" how well will he get along with Stoudemire?

And if Kobe were to come here and be the leader would that affect JJ's game? Would he regress to what he was with Steph here?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirChaz
I think there is also a factor of Amare being a big fan of Shaq. He gets advice from him and so forth.

If Kobe can't get along with Shaq and "wants his own team" how well will he get along with Stoudemire?

And if Kobe were to come here and be the leader would that affect JJ's game? Would he regress to what he was with Steph here?

I think that's taking it a bit far. Possible, I suppose, but not something I would say would cause Kobe to think twice about signing here.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I think that's taking it a bit far. Possible, I suppose, but not something I would say would cause Kobe to think twice about signing here.

Maybe not, but is a reasonable concern for the Suns and the chemistry of the team.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
The entire Bay Area television market is roughly 6 million. It gets confusing because the South Bay (San Jose, etc) are sometimes treated as separate markets, but most people view the entire area as one market.

Thats a good point, but to my knowledge the San Jose area does not get TV coverage from the Warriors. At least not 2 years ago. I have a lot of family in Mt View (like 10 minutes from San Jose), and I couldn't get a game for the life of me.

I think last season they might have found a local tv station however. Although, not many people are willing to drive the 40 minutes to an hour to actually see the game in person. So I guess we have a different idea of how far the team's reach really is.

I more or less say that the Warriors get most of their support from Oakland and San Fransico, just as the Suns get there's from Phoenix, Scottsdale, Glendale ect. ect.

When you look at it that way, the descrepency isnt that much

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Anyways, I kind of see the market size as a moot point for Kobe. TMAC was able to establish his marketing power in one of the smallest markets in the league.

Since Kobe is already very established, he will get the same publicity no matter where he goes IMO. I guess the daily articles would reach more people if he were in say, NY, but that doesn't really matter. The endorsements should in theory come in the same amount for him no matter where he plays.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I think Joe can still become a 1. SOmeone today mentioned that it would be interesting if we didn't have a "traditional" point guard. With Kobe and JJ in the backcourt, we'd have two guys that can set up the offense, and that's really all we need from the 1 spot.

I really think a Kobe/JJ backcourt could work well. Kobe was the one who intiated the offense for LA the last 4 years, so he has proven he can do it. JJ has been very effective feeding people as of late.

A JJ/Kobe backcourt with Vujanic and Barbosa off the bench would be awesome. Actually, best guard rotation in the league I would think.

 

[cly2tw]

Amare at 22 pts, 11 rbs, 3 ass
Kobe at 25 pts, 7 rbs, 7 ass
Marion at 18 pts, 10 rbs, 3 ass
JJ at 20 pts, 5 rbs, 5 ass

That's 85 pts, 33 rbs, 18 ass already. They can just win games all by themselves without any other player!

 

[Billythekid]

JJ would be Ron Harper to Kobe's Jordan. Amare is our Rodman, with more offense. Marion is our Pippen, with less talent

All we need now is a Luc Longley clone!

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Billythekid
JJ would be Ron Harper to Kobe's Jordan. Amare is our Rodman, with more offense. Marion is our Pippen, with less talent

All we need now is a Luc Longley clone!

Nice try. Amare will score more points in his sleep than Rodman, but he has a long way to go before he can match Dennis on the boards. (1986-87, Rodman AVERAGED 16.1 rpg. He only average 15 rpg the following season).

Can the Suns find another Luc Longley? The Bulls Longley or the Suns Longley?

With the Bulls, Longley was permitted to be very agressive on defense (NBA speak for fouling a lot). With the Suns, he was more foul prone than Voskuhl (which is not easy to do). He was pretty foul prone in Chicago, but it was not as big a problem there.

One of the things to remember about Longley was that he did not have to be a top rebounder with Rodman playing.. With Chicago, he never averaged as many as 6 rebounds a game. Where he really shown was his ability to hit the short jumper and assists. In his last year in Chicago, Longley averaged 11.4 ppg on 45.5% shooting and 5.9 rpg.

When he joined the Suns, one writer said he might have done OK if Dice had stayed, but his style was too much like Googs. Without Rodman, his mediocre rebounding was a much bigger problem.

In any case, I'm not convinced even the Bulls Longley would be enough to make the Suns competative, even with Kobe.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
In any case, I'm not convinced even the Bulls Longley would be enough to make the Suns competative, even with Kobe.

I'm not convinced that Kobe would be enough to make the Suns anything other than a middle-of-the-pack team with a controversial marquis backcourt player.

His scoring average wouldn't add much to the team. Alot of it would come at the expense of Joe Johnson's 20 ppg, which didn't exist with Marbury here.

Charles Barkley was a controversial marquis 4-year hired gun, who brought us to contention level, as a frontcourt player, but had drawbacks (namely his _efense).

With the exception of Michael, guards just don't have the same impact as frontcourt superstars. Oscar and Magic each had Kareem. Cousy had Russell. The Rockets had Hakeem.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That does lead to this question. Mike D' experimented with JJ at the Point next to the Matrix, then dismissed the idea.

With JJ leading the team in assists (over our point guard) every night now, could a backcourt of Joe and Kobe, teamed with Amare at PF, and Marion (or eventually Zarco) at the 3, and a solid 36-minute-per-game defensive Center become a true contender?

Wasn't Longley one of three Centers who got playing time with the Bulls. Again, there was only one Michael, when it comes to teams who stay in contention year after year.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by BC867

With JJ leading the team in assists (over our point guard) every night now, could a backcourt of Joe and Kobe, teamed with Amare at PF, and Marion (or eventually Zarco) at the 3, and a solid 36-minute-per-game defensive Center become a true contender?

Wasn't Longley one of three Centers who got playing time with the Bulls. Again, there was only one Michael, when it comes to teams who stay in contention year after year.

Where do we get this defensive center? My feeling (and it is just a feeling) is that it will take more than the mid cap exemption to get what the teams needs. That is why I am so leary of giving Kobe a max contract, because I think the Suns will need more than the Eldon Campbells and Michael Olowokandi's of the world.

As a general rule, the relative quality of guards available for the mid cap is much higher than the quality of the centers available.