Koetter gets extension

[AZBALLER]

"garbage athletic department in Tempe...get with it and face the facts..."(quote from the finest).

So we suck at all sports except for "badmiton"?

What does that say for ua?

Being ahead of you in the Sears' Cup rankings last year as a "garbage athletic department" doesn't bode to well for ya...

 

[AZBALLER]

Well I gotta say, nothing gets a response like UA-ASU and for that i am glad. One day if/when both programs are actually contending year in and year out, our rivalry will start to get more credit for its passion. Listen guys, im not blind to the facts...Derek Shaw is the best QB prospect for either school ever (with Tui and walter both close behind at least in the last couple decades), i know you guys have a stud d-end coming off a transfer year who i think was Big 10 defensive player of the year at NW. I love Dale Robinson and Hagan and think they will both be great pros. Tillman and Keller are both in my top 5 fav college football players ever.

I think Keller will be a stud next year, love zach miller and Herring and think the two things that cost ASU a BCS bid were 'The USC effect' and offensive line injuries (and of course Keller going down) and Bill Miller is REALLY going to help recruiting in Florida which is huge. I think ASU has a chance to be very good next year if Koetter doesnt get too cute in gameplanning and they show some f--king heart for an entire season for the first time since 96. As of last year, talent wise you guys are kicking our a$$...Im from Tempe, know Devil football better than many of you likely, have been to dozens od ASU games and have many diehard ASU friends....

SAYING ALL THAT....

You guys really stir me up when you dont stare facts in the face. WE are out recruiting you. OUR coach is better on gameday and more motivational than yours (apple does not fall far from the tree) and we have WAY better uniforms

Plus with less talent annually we have gone toe to toe every year with you. And like i said you guys are underachieving for all the advantages you have. Right when we hired Mackovic i immediatly gave away my tickets and knew from day one this guy would set the program back years. There was a time there when i attended UA and actually followed ASU football more beacause i despised Mackovic so much. It tooka couple years but others began to catch on as well. So Stoops a young, respected, well known championship coordinator coming in was an absolute coup for the university. He brought in big name guys like his brother Mark (a dback coach at Miami) canales, spurriers son, and josh heupel who have all done wonders for their coaching careers by coming to Tucson.

He has taken away the losing attitude and has brought in the on thing the school has never had. A legit QB. You can doubt all you want and call me bias as well but if you know football and watched the games, even in his bad games, you can tell Tui is special. He has "it"...or more importantly pocket presence. and if you read many of the incoming recruits quotes they all cite Tui as the reason they are coming. Doubt if you will, but I couldnt be happier about my teams prospects even after a three win season. You MIGHT be better than us next year due to having a senior QB which is SO important in the Pac-10....But i really believe no matter how good Shaw is, you will be looking up in the standings at UA the next two years after that. And hopefully that is just the beginning of the rebirth of a program...

That was a solid post, and I respect your opinion...

Although I think you're hyping Tui the same way that Keith Smith, Kovalcheck, Dan White, the kid from Desert Vista(transfer from Tennesse), etc, etc, have been hyped...I wouldn't jump on some kids' bandwagon just because he had 1 or 2 good games...Furthermore, what if he gets hurt? Is the entire program going to crumble?
College football teams are built on talent, depth, and experience. So far it looks like Stoops is bringing in talent, but nothing else...How many QBs have transferred out of ua over the last 3 years? Who is the backup, and is he gonna stick around? I heard the same song and dance a year ago about Kovalcheck being the savior after a few good games, but where is he on the depth chart now?
I understand your excitement over ua's recruiting classes, but I read the same stuff about Mac outrecruiting Koetter 4 years ago...Yet Koetter's recruiting classes go to bowl games, where did Mike Bell, Bobby Wade, etc spend their holidays?
The proof is on the field, and it's not close...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I understand your excitement over ua's recruiting classes, but I read the same stuff about Mac outrecruiting Koetter 4 years ago...Yet Koetter's recruiting classes go to bowl games, where did Mike Bell, Bobby Wade, etc spend their holidays?

First off, if you can't see the difference between Tuitama and garbage such as Dick Kovalcheck, Kris Heavner, Nic Costa, and Ryan O'Hara then I'm guessing you probably never saw much of a difference between Andrew Walter and Chad Christiansen. They're not even in the same category from arm strength, leadership, and intangibles on down.

And Koetter was easily outrecruiting Mackovic during the last two years of Mac's tenure here. Look at their respective commitment lists from 2002-2003. Arizona was only slightly behind but most of their high-ranked players never set foot in the program or were vastly overrated by the scouting sites.

It's mindboggling to me how ASU fans cannot accept the reality that Arizona is getting better. In the long run, a healthy rivalry between two good programs would only benefit both schools in the long run. Two consistently contending programs (and a little help from the Redbirds would be nice) would drive this state into a football-crazed madhouse. More Arizonans would follow the sport which would translate into a better talent base for both teams. And more national recognition (which would quickly come with two terrific teams) for the rivalry would mean more out-of-state kids would pay attention to both ASU and UA. Not to mention all the extra money that would be pumped into each program by boosters that want to beat out the other. I've always said that I want UofA-ASU to be like Oklahoma and Texas. Right now, we're a poor man's Iowa-Iowa State without the diehard fans and attendance.

 

[AZBALLER]

First off, if you can't see the difference between Tuitama and garbage such as Dick Kovalcheck, Kris Heavner, Nic Costa, and Ryan O'Hara then I'm guessing you probably never saw much of a difference between Andrew Walter and Chad Christiansen. They're not even in the same category from arm strength, leadership, and intangibles on down.?

I can certainly see the difference, I'm just referencing posts about EVERY ua qb over the last 10-15 years...Every year ua supposedly has a savior, heck Ryan Keally could have been an All-American Qb at ASU, but he got injured...

 

[Arizona's Finest]

First off, if you can't see the difference between Tuitama and garbage such as Dick Kovalcheck, Kris Heavner, Nic Costa, and Ryan O'Hara then I'm guessing you probably never saw much of a difference between Andrew Walter and Chad Christiansen. They're not even in the same category from arm strength, leadership, and intangibles on down.

And Koetter was easily outrecruiting Mackovic during the last two years of Mac's tenure here. Look at their respective commitment lists from 2002-2003. Arizona was only slightly behind but most of their high-ranked players never set foot in the program or were vastly overrated by the scouting sites.

It's mindboggling to me how ASU fans cannot accept the reality that Arizona is getting better. In the long run, a healthy rivalry between two good programs would only benefit both schools in the long run. Two consistently contending programs (and a little help from the Redbirds would be nice) would drive this state into a football-crazed madhouse. More Arizonans would follow the sport which would translate into a better talent base for both teams. And more national recognition (which would quickly come with two terrific teams) for the rivalry would mean more out-of-state kids would pay attention to both ASU and UA. Not to mention all the extra money that would be pumped into each program by boosters that want to beat out the other. I've always said that I want UofA-ASU to be like Oklahoma and Texas. Right now, we're a poor man's Iowa-Iowa State without the diehard fans and attendance.

Post of the year...

AZballer...You see the difference betweeen Tui and the others is that he was a very big prospect coming out of so cal (QB hotbed with Pennsylvania) and his arm strength and mobility are a very big level above the other players you named. When kovlachek and keith smith played well it was a nice story because it was unexpected. Tui is more of a comparison to a player like Brohm at Louisville. He was a big time recruit. People knew he had a chance to be special. He was so good that he got time with an senior QB who is now in the NFL. And in that time he showed ALOT...meaning he matched the expectations...granted he didnt absolutley blow up this year but he progressed well enough that he should be on of the top three QB's next year with Quinn and Young. And they are seniors hes a junior. Tui had a lot of hype and he came in and EXCEEDED high expectations unlike the other QB's you mentioned. ANd he did it as a freshman.

Im watching the Cavs game right now so this is likely why i draw this parallel but LBJ had a lot of hype coming in. Him being a good NBA player at 18 his rookie season was expected. But he came in and while he wasnt a complete player he was good enough to win with and you could see that all he needed was experience and coaching. Not only did he match the hype...he exceeded it...and much earlier than you would have expected.... much like Tui. He is physically gifted enough that if he does get UA into a Rose Bowl his senior year and is a top QB production wise, he could be the number one in the NFL draft depending on what other QB's are out there. Hes that gifted....Im excited because we dont get QB's that go to the elite 10 QB camps (Yes Shaw was there too) and get raved about by coaches for thier arm strength and work ethic...

But besides all that....just watch the games man....hes got it....i think Keller is similar but he was a junior this year....this kid is a freshman....his learning curve is exponential and he has the toolbox to put it all together and be an absolute stud....something we have never had at that postion....this isnt hyperbole either....check the facts about him coming out.....he was a top prospect and he has not disappointed, even as a frosh........

But think what you want.....barring injury i think time will prove me and mao right

This reminds me of a Stuart Smalley quote from SNL when Barkley was guest hosting.....

"Sounds like Cleopatra isn't the only Queen of denial........."

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I can certainly see the difference, I'm just referencing posts about EVERY ua qb over the last 10-15 years...Every year ua supposedly has a savior, heck Ryan Keally could have been an All-American Qb at ASU, but he got injured...

And I can reference posts that suggest Andrew Walter and Sam Keller are better QBs than Matt Leinart. Just because some decide to overdose on the kool-aid doesn't mean it's a character trait of an entire fanbase. And if you see the difference between Tuitama and those other clowns as you suggest, then the only thing I can think of is you think Tuitama is going to be a bust because the rest of those guys were terrible. That's really not any noteworthy analysis. I suppose that means the transfers ASU is bringing in next year on the defensive line are going to be terrible as well considering the overwhelming majority of ASU d-linemen have sucked over the past five years.

And I agree with you about Kealy. I always felt he was way more talented than even Plummer and Walter. But it was more than just the injuries as to why his career went down the crapper. And in case you were wondering, with significantly less talent and without the luxury of a redshirt year, Tuitama had a better efficiency rating than Kealy in their respective freshman years.

 

[HooverDam]

Mao, I agree w/ what you are saying about hoping the ASU-UA rivalry increases over the years. I used to say my two favorite teams were ASU and whoever was playing UA. But I dont think thats true, I wish UA well until they play ASU (ASU beating a team w/ better record always helps). I'd love to see ASU draw even in the all time series in my lifetime.

But about UA getting better, Im not sure I agree. You can recruit all the highly rated players in the world, it doesnt mean anything. You can get closer in games, and lose less, but losing is still losing. If UA wins 4 games next year, Ill agree they are improving. But I guess for me its all about W's.

 

[DevilPrideBAS]

But about UA getting better, Im not sure I agree. You can recruit all the highly rated players in the world, it doesnt mean anything. You can get closer in games, and lose less, but losing is still losing. If UA wins 4 games next year, Ill agree they are improving. But I guess for me its all about W's.

And the wins are not there. Well said...ArizonasFinest, are you seriously comparing Tuitama to Lebron James. Seriously are you?

 

[DevilPrideBAS]

Everyone forgets, Rudy Carpenter is a freshman too. All this talk about Tuitama being such a stud because he performed in a couple games and then lost to the one win Washington squad is a bit premature. Ask Mike Bell how it feels to be highly regarded as a freshman and have nothing to show for his career...Happy trails.

 

[HooverDam]

Everyone forgets, Rudy Carpenter is a freshman too. All this talk about Tuitama being such a stud because he performed in a couple games and then lost to the one win Washington squad is a bit premature. Ask Mike Bell how it feels to be highly regarded as a freshman and have nothing to show for his career...Happy trails.

Speaking of being highly regarded Fresh QB, I believed Rudy made quite a few Fresh. All American teams, how many did Tui make?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Everyone forgets, Rudy Carpenter is a freshman too. All this talk about Tuitama being such a stud because he performed in a couple games and then lost to the one win Washington squad is a bit premature. Ask Mike Bell how it feels to be highly regarded as a freshman and have nothing to show for his career...Happy trails.

I was watching the game and it came into my mind. The correlation is that they exceeded high expectations...i thought i pointed that out like 6 times. Football is different but the quarterback position is the most important position in team sports and we have a young star. Hes not LBJ on a national level by any means, but he is a kid who recieved a lot of hype, and he is a small percentage to match and exceed the hype so early in the process......The kind of schools that usually get these hightly rated QB;s usually have established guys already playing so they can take their time and learn the system and allow them to flourish. Willie did not have that luxury. Thats whi i feel ok making that comparison because guys like Young, Vick, and Lienert all got the benefit of guys in front of them and/or redshirt years. Just watch a game man (besides the ASU one im sure you watched) and you will see what im talking about. Hes freaking 18 years old and his poinse and leadership are off the charts...but like i keep saying...i iwill let time prove me to be right.....

Some more salt for the wound devils....this is from the Holmes press conference:

ASU, however, was not on the radar.

"They waited too late," Holmes said of the UA's rival down the street from SCC. "If things would have been different, I probably would have been a Sun Devil."

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Speaking of being highly regarded Fresh QB, I believed Rudy made quite a few Fresh. All American teams, how many did Tui make?

You can have Carpenter bro....

I would be much more worried by a healthy Sam Keller and then a junior Derek Shaw.....

 

[BillsCarnage]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dean change his choice to ASU now, but if he's a man of his word he'll stay with UA.

And then..

WTF are you talking about? Did something happen im not aware of?Dean is not changing and neiter is the the other four and five star recruits we got....if you are going to just keep popping off at the mouth with ubstanstiated claims then I can say Keller will never play ball again and Koetter will fall of A moutain. In other words there is nothing to your little speculation....

WTF are you talking about?? Now you're twisting words around motard. It's a fact that Dean is coming to ASU now. You're twisting it around like i said Dean had changed to ASU. Relax Kitty.

Sorry, but the sig is staying for a few more years. UA may never get to the rose bowl with the BCS now.

 

[BillsCarnage]

And when the rankings come out and they rate Arizona's 2006 recruiting class better than ASU's, these rankings will instantly become meaningless in every Devils' eyes. Typical myopic thought process.

Not to me. They've got a good verbal commitment class so far and if they become LOI's the UofEh will have had a good class. But ultimately the quality of the class will be determined on the field.

 

[BillsCarnage]

BTW finest, your memory doesn't serve you correctly...The only time ua was ever ranked number 1 in football was the notorious sports illustrated jinx. They ranked you #1 in the preseason, and you went on to lose your first game to Penn State by about 40 points...But hey, maybe you think preseason rankings are important...Kinda like your football recruiting for the last 5 years? Wasn't Macowack kicking Koetter's a$$ in recruiting also?

Yup, and yet they love to mock ASU as being "overrated" this year. Seems as though they set the bar on that.

 

[DevilPrideBAS]

"They waited too late," Holmes said of the UA's rival down the street from SCC. "If things would have been different, I probably would have been a Sun Devil."

He's saying that if he had to choose between ASU and U of A, his choice would have been ASU so basically U of A got him by default

 

[DevilPrideBAS]

I was watching the game and it came into my mind. The correlation is that they exceeded high expectations...i thought i pointed that out like 6 times. Football is different but the quarterback position is the most important position in team sports and we have a young star. Hes not LBJ on a national level by any means, but he is a kid who recieved a lot of hype, and he is a small percentage to match and exceed the hype so early in the process......The kind of schools that usually get these hightly rated QB;s usually have established guys already playing so they can take their time and learn the system and allow them to flourish. Willie did not have that luxury. Thats whi i feel ok making that comparison because guys like Young, Vick, and Lienert all got the benefit of guys in front of them and/or redshirt years. Just watch a game man (besides the ASU one im sure you watched) and you will see what im talking about. Hes freaking 18 years old and his poinse and leadership are off the charts...but like i keep saying...i iwill let time prove me to be right.....

Dude, you have flipped your lid.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Well I gotta say, nothing gets a response like UA-ASU and for that i am glad. One day if/when both programs are actually contending year in and year out, our rivalry will start to get more credit for its passion.

Amen brotha.

SAYING ALL THAT....

You guys really stir me up when you dont stare facts in the face. WE are out recruiting

Probably up until now, yes, but you also needed more players too.

 

[boisesuns]

How is the general response to Koetter overall as a coach? I remember him doing well at Boise, but he's seemed to struggle at ASU. I think his teams haven't been that great though. He's a good recruiter, and I hope he can do some good things for ASU.

 

[BillsCarnage]

How is the general response to Koetter overall as a coach?

That's rhetorical right?

It takes a coach four years to build a program. Koetter just finished his 5th and is four games over .500 - and that came at the help of a 9-3 season last year. Maybe he had too high of expectations coming in from the success at Boise.

It seems as though his ego has really ticked some people off - players, faculty, alum, etc and he's not in good favor with them for the most part it seems. But Love saw something that warranted an extension. I think they were losing recruits. Specifically, the Holmes one probably nags at them now.

As for me i've been on the fence with Koetter his tenure at ASU, but have been leaning towards letting him go. Three things really stick out for me; 0-fer Cali, Lack of winning the big games and lack of a solid defense. Something that a Sun Angel mentioned to me was that Koetter only has 12 running plays in the book. Obviously there's no way to verify that but his argument was that that's not enough. Mine was that they should be really, really good at those 12 then.

Miller will be going into his second year and if he's as good as the pub says then they should be in good shape. I'm willing to give them another shot, but Koetter is walking a thin line. A BCS game is not an easy task, just ask Oregon. The Pac-10 will always get screwed in the BCS until the auto births are dumped. And the Pac is moving to the nine game schedule next year as well.

I do miss the Snyder rushing days though. Those were some wicked rushing teams.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

He's saying that if he had to choose between ASU and U of A, his choice would have been ASU so basically U of A got him by default

This might be the stupidest comment ever posted on the board....Yeah you think he enjoys living in Scottsdale and partying in Tempe...

Im sure ASU didn't want him when his finalists were USC, LSU, Florida, Florida State and Oklahoma......and he commited to Ohio State out of high school...

The fact is you might have had an inherent advantage being that he obviously grew to like the phx area while at SCC, (which i cant blame b/c i miss it every day) and would be willing to stay in the area.....UA ended up playing that card and we got the kid b/c of it...

Its like i keep saying. Theres no denying you guys have inherent advantages over many schools including UA, the problem is u goofs dont capitalize on it

Just because your coaching staff is too inept to recognize talent early and then do too little too late says nothing about him wanting ASU over UA. The fact is the quote is an indictment of ASU. Many recruits make comments like these when they dont feel they were given the respect they deserve locally after they commit....Translation of the quote "You guys f--ked up"

 

[BillsCarnage]

Its like i keep saying. Theres no denying you guys have inherent advantages over many schools including UA, the problem is u goofs dont capitalize on it

Yep, this has always baffled me too. Great weather year round, good local to Cali, LV, Mex, etc. Cost of living is fairly low - sans housing. This is where people that love the beach but hate the water come!

 

[HooverDam]

You can have Carpenter bro....

I would be much more worried by a healthy Sam Keller and then a junior Derek Shaw.....

I dont understand what this post means. Laughing at Carpenter? Look ASU has three stud QBs, UA has one. So you can pick your poison for years to come.

 

[AZBALLER]

And I can reference posts that suggest Andrew Walter and Sam Keller are better QBs than Matt Leinart.

O.K. go ahead and do that...

 

[AZBALLER]

BTW, is seems that Dean wishwashed once again, apparently he didn't show up for his visist to ASU, that he agreed to take, so I'm pretty happy this kid won't be hanging around any ASU football players...No offense to the kid, but apperently he has a lot of talent and physical ability, but he lacks in some other major talents...