Kolb - Why he may not be cut

[Crazy Canuck]

We've all have been presuming that signing Manning leads automatically to Kolb being cut. But, that may not be the case in 2012.

Kolb, if he received his $7M roster bonus in March, would be a $10M dollar CAP hit in 2012.

$7M (roster bonus) + $2M (pro-rated signing bonus) + $1M (salary) = $10M

However, if he was cut prior to receiving the roster bonus, he would still be an $8M CAP hit as the Cards would have to absorb the remainder of his signing bonus in 2012.

So, at best, cutting him saves $2M in 2012.

Including Kolb in my additions of all CAP hits for 2012 minus the $18M due to Levi Brown would indicate the Cards are still 25 to 30M under the CAP.

It's not inconceivable that the Cards pursue Manning, pay him his bonus, and either keep him for 2012 or engineer some sort of trade at the draft.

***found at www.spotrac.com

 

[az jam]

Bottom line though is that it doesn't make sense to keep Kolb to sit on the bench as we have Skelton to backup Payton.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Bottom line though is that it doesn't make sense to keep Kolb to sit on the bench as we have Skelton to backup Payton.

Well.. the Cards have already said they will pay the bonus and, at least financially, I can understand why. CAP wise in 2012 there's little advantage and by retaining him there is a slight chance they could facilitate a trade given that he'd come cheap to a suitor.

 

[Phrazbit]

When did they say they will pay the bonus? Just the other day Bidwill said they will "cross that bridge when they get there". Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

And I dont see anyway the Cards could facilitate a trade. He has a bad contract, he played poorly and his concussions alone are enough to scare away anyone from taking on his current contract.

IF the Cardinals sign Manning then the only way Kolb would stay is if he renegotiated his contract... and that wont happen. So he would be gone.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

When did they say they will pay the bonus? Just the other day Bidwill said they will "cross that bridge when they get there". Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

And I dont see anyway the Cards could facilitate a trade. He has a bad contract, he played poorly and his concussions alone are enough to scare away anyone from taking on his current contract.

IF the Cardinals sign Manning then the only way Kolb would stay is if he renegotiated his contract... and that wont happen. So he would be gone.

It was reported by Urban that they would pay the bonus.

Bottom line is that the Cards will have to make some very quick decisions in the week following the opening of Free Agency.

BIM: Bidwill

 

[Phrazbit]

I'll take Bidwill's word over Urban. If the Cards had a;ready decided to pay it then Bidwill would have given Kolb an endorsement instead of basically saying "unless something better comes along".

 

[BigRedRage]

It was reported by Urban that they would pay the bonus.

Bottom line is that the Cards will have to make some very quick decisions in the week following the opening of Free Agency.

BIM: Bidwill

I think he was implying we would like to keep kolb as planned but that can always change.

he is not implying that we would pay kolb no matter what in any scenario.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'll take Bidwill's word over Urban. If the Cards had a;ready decided to pay it then Bidwill would have given Kolb an endorsement instead of basically saying "unless something better comes along".[/QUOTE]

Is that a BIDWILL quote?

Here's one from Michael B from Feb 3:

– On quarterback Kevin Kolb: “I still think Kevin, with an offseason, he is going to be a darn good quarterback,” Bidwill said, adding the team needs to develop their two young QBs, including John Skelton

 

[BigRedRage]

quoting the boss he said we would cross that bridge when the time comes.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

quoting the boss he said we would cross that bridge when the time comes.

I'm sure that is the case and can mean everything and nothing...

 

[az jam]

Mike Jurecki
2012 $10.5 million RT @AzSportsNFL: @mikejurecki @shaner021 whats cap hit if they keep Kolb?

So if we cut him we pay the $8 million signing bonus and if we keep him we pay $10.5 million.

We save $2.5 Million from this year's salary by cutting him. I'll take the money. The Cards can sure use it on someone else.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Mike Jurecki
2012 $10.5 million RT @AzSportsNFL: @mikejurecki @shaner021 whats cap hit if they keep Kolb?

So if we cut him we pay the $8 million signing bonus and if we keep him we pay $10.5 million.

We save $2.5 Million from this year's salary by cutting him. I'll take the money. The Cards can sure use it on someone else.

Could very well be the final decision.

 

[Chopper0080]

Mike Jurecki
2012 $10.5 million RT @AzSportsNFL: @mikejurecki @shaner021 whats cap hit if they keep Kolb?

So if we cut him we pay the $8 million signing bonus and if we keep him we pay $10.5 million.

We save $2.5 Million from this year's salary by cutting him. I'll take the money. The Cards can sure use it on someone else.

Maybe we could hire Derek Zoolander to help Early Doucet turn left.

 

[splitsecond]

Kolb is on the roster, and no moves have been made nor are there any available that would necessitate denying the bonus, therefore they are paying the bonus.

Understand that if the team says ONE LITTLE THING that hints "hey Peyton, come here!" they could get hit with tampering.

Until Peyton is signed with another team or reaffirmed in Indy, not a single person can say what this team will do, other than consider the options available. Technically and legally, right now Kolb and Skelton are the only options available.

 

[az jam]

Kolb is on the roster, and no moves have been made nor are there any available that would necessitate denying the bonus, therefore they are paying the bonus.

Understand that if the team says ONE LITTLE THING that hints "hey Peyton, come here!" they could get hit with tampering.

Until Peyton is signed with another team or reaffirmed in Indy, not a single person can say what this team will do, other than consider the options available. Technically and legally, right now Kolb and Skelton are the only options available.

Once he is released he is a free agent and therefore no longer under contract. Teams can say anything they want at that time. The sports writers will be reporting every move for sure!!

 

[Vermont Maverick]

It's not inconceivable that the Cards pursue Manning, pay him his bonus, and either keep him for 2012 or engineer some sort of trade at the draft.

***found at www.spotrac.com

Good thoughts Canuck, but I would say no.

This team is money conscious. Paying $7M out of pocket for someone they don't intend on playing won't be done. If they sign and trade him, they are basically paying $7M for the right to trade him. Even if you get, say a 4th rounder - is it really worth $7 Million for a 4th rounder. Some teams might do it, but not this one. Plus, the fact that they can NOT pay Kolb gives them more cash to send to Manning - which is going to be the toughest sell on the Bidwills especially after doling out a huge deal to Larry.

I could see them trying to trade him after signing Manning and BEFORE Kolb's bonus is due, even for a 6th or 7th. Someone might take on that contract and pay the bonus. Cleveland? He is a west coast style QB (Holmgren). His contract has an escape clause after next year as well I believe.

 

[splitsecond]

Once he is released he is a free agent and therefore no longer under contract. Teams can say anything they want at that time. The sports writers will be reporting every move for sure!!

My poorly worded point was that Bidwill nor any other owner or team employee can make any statement slightly hinting towards chasing Peyton or any other free agent due to tampering rules until he is released.

 

[Reddog]

Well.. the Cards have already said they will pay the bonus and, at least financially, I can understand why. CAP wise in 2012 there's little advantage and by retaining him there is a slight chance they could facilitate a trade given that he'd come cheap to a suitor.

I can think of $7M reasons why if they felt they had the position covered. Forget about the cap and keep in mind that $7M goes right back to the bottom line. Not sure they would care about $8M in cap impact. It would be as if they didn't have to spend to the limit as dictated by the new cba. Just like the old days.

 

[Stout]

When the season ended, I figured there was no way we would cut Kolb. Then the tide of opinion started to turn, and it seemed as if there was no way we would keep Kolb. Now, I have absolutely no idea. The only guarantee I can make is that, if we do get Manning, Kolb will not be a Cardinal for the 2012 season.

 

[kerouac9]

Boy... Did Graves do a stupid job structuring that contract. When we were going to go into the 2011 season $8 million under the cap, anyway, why give a $10 million signing bonus that'll be pro-rated over the life of the contract? Why not give a $4 million signing bonus and make $8 million the first-year salary (guaranteed) and keep the money in the current year?

If Kolb fails to turn into Jeff Garcia this offseason, we're going to be on the hook for $6 million in dead Kolb money once we cut him.

 

[az jam]

Boy... Did Graves do a stupid job structuring that contract. When we were going to go into the 2011 season $8 million under the cap, anyway, why give a $10 million signing bonus that'll be pro-rated over the life of the contract? Why not give a $4 million signing bonus and make $8 million the first-year salary (guaranteed) and keep the money in the current year?

If Kolb fails to turn into Jeff Garcia this offseason, we're going to be on the hook for $6 million in dead Kolb money once we cut him.

Isn't it $8 million since we gave him a $10 million bonus??

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Isn't it $8 million since we gave him a $10 million bonus??

If they cut ties prior to paying the $7M roster bonus, then they take an $8M dollar CAP hit in 2012 to close the books.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Boy... Did Graves do a stupid job structuring that contract. When we were going to go into the 2011 season $8 million under the cap, anyway, why give a $10 million signing bonus that'll be pro-rated over the life of the contract? Why not give a $4 million signing bonus and make $8 million the first-year salary (guaranteed) and keep the money in the current year?

First, I don't think we could do it that way, since his 2012 salary is $1M. I don't think you can give him $8M Year 1, and drop it to $1M Year 2. Yeah, it's too bad we would have some dead cap money, but it's only 1 year.

Second, I'm giving Graves props. The $7M is due 5 days AFTER the Free Agency starts. Say what you want about him, that is FORESIGHT. If Kolb is not working out, we have 5 days to sign someone else before we are on the hook for that money. That someone ends up being the greatest QB of all time. (Granted Peyton might be released earlier due to his bonus - but it doesn't change the fact that the Cards build some time into Year 2 in case there is another option out there.)

 

[kerouac9]

First, I don't think we could do it that way, since his 2012 salary is $1M. I don't think you can give him $8M Year 1, and drop it to $1M Year 2. Yeah, it's too bad we would have some dead cap money, but it's only 1 year.

Second, I'm giving Graves props. The $7M is due 5 days AFTER the Free Agency starts. Say what you want about him, that is FORESIGHT. If Kolb is not working out, we have 5 days to sign someone else before we are on the hook for that money. That someone ends up being the greatest QB of all time. (Granted Peyton might be released earlier due to his bonus - but it doesn't change the fact that the Cards build some time into Year 2 in case there is another option out there.)

Why would the CBA or anyone else care whether his first-year contract value is $8 million or $1 million? If it's that big a deal, you can make it a roster bonus due on the first day of the league year, and still accelerating his cap cost into 2011 with lesser repercussions later on.

As Canuck illustrates in this thread, Graves put us in the position where the Cards don't have much of a choice on Kolb, cap-wise. He's going to count almost the same against the cap in 2012 whether he's on the roster or not.

The fact that we're even considering cutting our alleged Franchise quarterback just six months after we signed him doesn't seem to speak well for Graves' and the rest of the scouting staff's "foresight."

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Why would the CBA or anyone else care whether his first-year contract value is $8 million or $1 million? If it's that big a deal, you can make it a roster bonus due on the first day of the league year, and still accelerating his cap cost into 2011 with lesser repercussions later on.

As Canuck illustrates in this thread, Graves put us in the position where the Cards don't have much of a choice on Kolb, cap-wise. He's going to count almost the same against the cap in 2012 whether he's on the roster or not.

The fact that we're even considering cutting our alleged Franchise quarterback just six months after we signed him doesn't seem to speak well for Graves' and the rest of the scouting staff's "foresight."

Why would the CBA care? I believe the rules are that you cannot have an annual salary DECREASE from year to year.

Could the contract have been structured differently. Probably. Are you sure that a roster bonus as you suggest counts in the current year, or does that get pro-rated as well? Bottom line. We took a chance on the QB. You gotta do that - it's the QB. Yup, we might end up with a one-year cap hit. It's one year. Big deal.

But while taking that chance, Graves included a 5-day window after free agency. It was widely reported that this deal was a $20M guaranteed - but really it was not. The 5-day window was a good move for the team - it gave a subtle out. I'm not sure why you can't give credit to Graves for that.