Can This Roster Be Playoff Level in a Year?

[WeBlitz]

Has there ever been a winning team built that started with the lack of talent that we have today, a top 5-6 paid QB (not on rookie deal), and that QB played mediocre/average?
I keep asking this question because nobody has thought of one example. I think its a very important question.

I’m not sure because I don’t think such a situation has ever happened before. We might be the first.

My opinion is if Kyler doesn't play up to the level of his contract/cap space, we need to blow it up and start over at QB.

I don’t think you’re receiving disagreements here from anybody, including Vontel.

I am confident in Monti and JG but why saddle them with a mediocre QB making huge money?

I think that’s what Vontel was looking for. It sort of gave off the vibe you weren’t confident in Monti doing what is needed to field a competitive team. You see it bluster, but I see it as reality. A mediocre QB and quality drafting and signings aren’t mutually exclusive.

Of course - I hope Kyler comes back to first half 2021 form (or close to it) and this will be a moot point.

We all do.

 

[TheCardFan]

@WeBlitz

Not looking for consensus of course.

The difference is Vontel thinks Monti/JG should be able to build around a mediocre/average Kyler - AKA his "shortcomings".

IMO - It all starts with "IF Kyler" and my point is if Kyler is mediocre/average - you get rid of him. Vontel pointed to Monti/JG instead of addressing my point directly.
Then the back and forth started.

Nothing else matters/is relevant if Kyler is mediocre/average. He is getting paid too much and we have too many holes.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I hope Kyler comes back to first half 2021 form (or close to it) and this will be a moot point.

We all do.

We all want him to come back healthy and look like his old self

But if he stays a pumpkin and not showing improvement then MO and staff have some big decisions to make

 

[TheCardFan]

But if he stays a pumpkin and not showing improvement then MO and staff have some big decisions to make

Exactly!

 

[WeBlitz]

The difference is Vontel thinks Monti/JG should be able to build around a mediocre/average Kyler - AKA his "shortcomings".

I don't believe he's saying that or has said that from my POV. I think what he's saying is whether Kyler is great, good, average, mediocre, bad, not on the team next year, should not stop Monti from doing what he was hired to do. Again, that's just only from my POV.

IMO - It all starts with "IF Kyler" and my point is if Kyler is mediocre/average - you get rid of him. Vontel pointed to Monti/JG instead of addressing my point directly.
Then the back and forth started.

Maybe I'm just misreading, but I thought he did several times. It seems that you believe Kyler's play and Monti's ability to GM are mutually exclusive, when I think they are not, or at least shouldn't be in order to be good GM.

Nothing else matters/is relevant if Kyler is mediocre/average.

I personally disagree heavily here. However, we weren't the ones hired to make these decisions. Monti Ossenfort was.

He is getting paid too much

No disagreements here.

we have too many holes.

That's what Monti was hired for. To fix these holes.

 

[DVontel]

I did not think it was this difficult to comprehend.

But hey, this is not the first time. So, I should not be shocked.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

right. so if there are 216 apples to a bushel how many oranges get us a first down?

Blue lug nuts

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Moon.

You beat me to it

 

[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There are plenty of examples of bad teams becoming good teams.

The 2021 Bengals are a good example. That roster wasn't great. Burrow went 2-7 the year before until he did his ACL and finished 4-11-1.

Didn't do much in FA outside Trey Hendrickson, mainly signed guys to 1 year deals. O line was trash. But they hit on Chase in the draft who was an instant top end player.

But won their division with a 10-7 record because Burrow played well.

Defense was devoid of big names but was solid and well coached.

I would call Hendrickson a big name. That offseason they added perhaps the biggest impact defensive player and biggest impact offensive player in Hendrickson and chase. That’s difficult to replicate.

 

[Stout]

Blue lug nuts

I was even thinking of just answering blue. Borg.

 

[Stout]

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9th

Caw caw, biotches!

 

[TheCardFan]

I did not think it was this difficult to comprehend.

But hey, this is not the first time. So, I should not be shocked.

Hope your 3-4 likes are a warm blanket for you.

 

[Outerlimits]

Depends on how the team performs in the next 8 weeks. Do they win a couple more games with Kyler playing better each week, or do they finish 1-16 with Kyler playing terribly. .

If we have to start over at QB, it is unrealistic to expect the rookie to be consistent enough to make the team a borderline playoff contender in his first season.(even if Monti does fairly well in FA and draft)

If Kyler thrives in the new system then they absolutely can be .500 next year or even a bit better assuming Monti isn't horrific in FA and draft.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It is reasonable, yes, which is why I haven't been happy to see we haven't been setting up to really do so.

They’ve got their work cut out for them next year to do so. It really just depends on if they can turn Kyler into a consistently good QB. If he’s that guy you can depend on 17 games of the year, that makes their jobs much easier to at least challenge for the playoffs.

 

[daves]

The 2022.5 - 2023.5 Cardinals are arguably not much better or worse than the 2018 Wilks team. That team added rookie Murray in the off-season and by 2020 was a playoff contender and in 2021 a playoff participant.

The current team, starting from a similar nadir talent-wise, will add a more experienced Murray, though one entering a new system and recovering from injury, and with a huge cap number. On the other hand, this team will benefit from a ton of high draft picks not made by Keim. If those factors balance out, it seems attainable for the second half of 2023 to be similar to 2019 (win 1/3 of the remaining games), and for 2024 to be similar to 2020 (~.500 playoff contender).

Hopefully then 2025 will be a playoff year. With better coaching and a more experienced Murray, we can also hope that the outcome will be better and the trajectory will continue upwards with multiple playoff seasons and legitimate Support Bowl contenders.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They’ve got their work cut out for them next year to do so. It really just depends on if they can turn Kyler into a consistently good QB. If he’s that guy you can depend on 17 games of the year, that makes their jobs much easier to at least challenge for the playoffs.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from any player in today's NFL

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from any player in today's NFL

sigh... I'm not saying he has to be superman all 17 games. I'm just saying he can't be the guy who's good to great the first 7-9 games then takes a complete header at the end of seasons like he did in 2020/2021.

 

[CardNots]

sigh... I'm not saying he has to be superman all 17 games. I'm just saying he can't be the guy who's good to great the first 7-9 games then takes a complete header at the end of seasons like he did in 2020/2021.

I concur.

Warner was a washed up QB with two great WRs. The OL wasn’t that good. In fact the team in general was sketchy. Worse playoff team in history but Warner took us on a ride of a lifetime.

Kyler needs to be the guy who delivers when it counts most.

 

[cardncubfan]

Yes

 

[Krangodnzr]

sigh... I'm not saying he has to be superman all 17 games. I'm just saying he can't be the guy who's good to great the first 7-9 games then takes a complete header at the end of seasons like he did in 2020/2021.

I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were expecting 17 starts every year, which most QBs don't do because of injuries.

 

[Harry]

I concur.

Warner was a washed up QB with two great WRs. The OL wasn’t that good. In fact the team in general was sketchy. Worse playoff team in history but Warner took us on a ride of a lifetime.

Kyler needs to be the guy who delivers when it counts most.

Warner could read defenses as well as any recent QB except maybe P Manning. His ability to audible to destroy a defensive alignment was unreal. Murray is not yet a scholar of taking defenses apart. Will he become that?

 

[WakeForestCard]

Warner could read defenses as well as any recent QB except maybe P Manning. His ability to audible to destroy a defensive alignment was unreal. Murray is not yet a scholar of taking defenses apart. Will he become that?

Will he become a Warner / Manning level scholar of taking defenses apart pre-snap? No. And he doesn't have to be, just needs to keep improving in that area.

 

[CardNots]

Warner could read defenses as well as any recent QB except maybe P Manning. His ability to audible to destroy a defensive alignment was unreal. Murray is not yet a scholar of taking defenses apart. Will he become that?

I will add Warner would throw his receivers open. It’s a rare skill.

Dan Fouts another great QB who when blindfolded would hit his receivers in stride because he knew exactly where they would be on a given route based on timing.

What made Warner particularly special was he knew where to place a ball based on the defensive coverages Being applied to his targeted receiver.

i agree KM Kyler’s story is yet to be written…

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Kurt was also tough as nails - he'd hang in the pocket and take the blow if it meant he got the pass off accurately.