Kolb will finish the season strong

[Stout]

You can see that in Kolb too if you paid attention. Go watch some film from Philly and how well he composes himself when given protection. As a matter of fact, in Arizona, when he stays in the pocket, he completes more than 63% of his passes.

Did you watch Warner in 2006? The guy could barely complete even the simple passes, and when a cold breeze came through the stadium, he would fumble the ball. He was regarded by fans as a two-time MVP who was a has-been and never-will-be-again. Fans couldn't wait for him to ride the pine.

1--I don't care if he's completing 100% of his passes when he stays in the pocket...he'd still only complete 25% of his passes or so, because he never stays in the pocket. It's like what Brian Fantana said about Sex Panther cologne in Anchor Man...60% of the time it works every time. Who cares how high his completion rate is when he sticks in the pocket when he never sticks in the pocket?

2-Now we're going to compare why Kolb is bad to Warner's thumb injury? The ONLY reason Warner couldn't hold the ball was because of that injury, and once he started using the gloves, he turned into an MVP for us. So how exactly does that compare to Kolb? Warner sucked because of injury, and Kolb has sucked because he has not even the slightest awareness or QB instincts.

I hope and friggin' pray that Kolb somehow FINALLY learns how to read a pocket, but if he can't, he will never be a starting QB. You HAVE to be able to step up in the pocket, or you'll never, ever be a starter. And it isn't something that easily taught or learned. That's why I'm so incredibly concerned, and why I blast the kid. It's why I have so very little hope he'll turn it around. It isn't the system, it is a lack of instinct, and that is a scary thing.

 

[schutd]

ASU and UofA fans bickering about their respective teams is like Nickelback telling Justin Bieber he sucks.

 

[kerouac9]

Why Isn't Kevin Kolb Better Than Matt Moore?

Both fifth-year players.

Both changed teams in a shortened offseason, having to learn entirely new systems.

Both inexperienced (13 starts over 4 years in Carolina).

Both had given teams reason to think they have promise.

Moore in his last four games: 6 TDs, 1 INT

Kolb in his last four games: 3 TDs, 6 INTs.

But I guess if TJ can see a couple of highlight plays from a couple of years ago, then Kolb is a legit NFL starter.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

How has anybody been right about Kevin Kolb already? I think everybody was saying he would probably suck balls at first, I think I personally might have said something about a pro-bowl a year or two down the road but I aint right or wrong about it yet. My biggest gripe with Kolb is that he didn't show any improvement while it seems the rest of the team has. I brought up Kolb watching Skelton chillin in the pocket (in a different thread), and we should see pretty quickly on Sunday whether it helped or not. Just too dang early is all I'm saying, especially for right or wrong to be thrown around. He sure hasn't started off very well.

Well put.

My biggest problem with Kolb, is that people are asking for patience while Kolb develops.

I have a very very serious concern that the Cardinals organization thinks it is a good idea to develop a 27 year old QB over a 23 year old QB, when both seem to be at the same stage in there development.

But, realizing how incredibly inept this organization is, makes it easier to understand.

I for one am starting to hope Kolb gets healthy very very soon, so he can drive home to everyone how bad he truly is before the season ends.

Heck, maybe we will get lucky, and the Bills will drop Ryan Fitzpatrick and we can pluck him up.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Both fifth-year players.

Both changed teams in a shortened offseason, having to learn entirely new systems.

Both inexperienced (13 starts over 4 years in Carolina).

Both had given teams reason to think they have promise.

Moore in his last four games: 6 TDs, 1 INT

Kolb in his last four games: 3 TDs, 6 INTs.

But I guess if TJ can see a couple of highlight plays from a couple of years ago, then Kolb is a legit NFL starter.

totally unfair comparison... Moore didn't have to learn the single most complicated offensive system in the history of mankind like Kolb did! I mean, it took Kurt Warner two years to learn Wiz's system... even though in his first game in it, he came off the bench in Baltimore to riddle the Ravens for 250 and 2 TDs while playing in it.

 

[TJ]

1--I don't care if he's completing 100% of his passes when he stays in the pocket...he'd still only complete 25% of his passes or so, because he never stays in the pocket. It's like what Brian Fantana said about Sex Panther cologne in Anchor Man...60% of the time it works every time. Who cares how high his completion rate is when he sticks in the pocket when he never sticks in the pocket?

2-Now we're going to compare why Kolb is bad to Warner's thumb injury? The ONLY reason Warner couldn't hold the ball was because of that injury, and once he started using the gloves, he turned into an MVP for us. So how exactly does that compare to Kolb? Warner sucked because of injury, and Kolb has sucked because he has not even the slightest awareness or QB instincts.

I hope and friggin' pray that Kolb somehow FINALLY learns how to read a pocket, but if he can't, he will never be a starting QB. You HAVE to be able to step up in the pocket, or you'll never, ever be a starter. And it isn't something that easily taught or learned. That's why I'm so incredibly concerned, and why I blast the kid. It's why I have so very little hope he'll turn it around. It isn't the system, it is a lack of instinct, and that is a scary thing.

I agree with you. He needs better pocket presence. That will make or break his career.

And I only mention Warner because fans back in 2006 and early 2007 had already written the man off as dead. When Phraz tells me he was patient with Warner back then, I don't believe that. Nobody was, including yours truly.

Blast the kid, tell him you're disappointed and underwhelmed. I'll buy that. I wont; however, buy the argument that he's a bust and there is no hope as I've seen what the man can do when given the opportunity.

I also think a better line in front of him, especially on the blind side, would make a world of difference and give him some confidence to stay in the pocket.

I'll leave you with this: there is a big difference between having pro bowl LT Jason Peters at Philly blocking for Kolb than Levi Brown.

BTW, great Anchorman Reference . I just hope Kolb doesnt end up smelling like Sex Panther: Big Foot's ****

 

[Phrazbit]

TJ, through your entire post the only excuse is "give him time". Who cares if there is not a single indication that he has talent. He needs time.

The ENTIRE reason the Cardinals traded for him is because they DID NOT WANT TO DEVELOP A QB!!! Now we are supposed to "develop" a 27 year old with no dicsernable strengths to his game? We cant evaluate this trade for 2 years when he will be almost 30?

If you trade for a guy who is supposed to be ready to play and then decide he will need TWO YEARS before you can decide if he is actually qualified to play then its safe to say that no matter where anyone stood before the trade took place that its turning out as a complete disaster.

Kolb's the SAME player he was in Philly, he had a couple randoms games of good play, but overall he was a pile of garbage as a QB who showed no progression. His problems are NOT new to his presence in Arizona, he never has shown pocket poise, he has never shown ability to run sustained drives, he has consistently turned the ball over at a high rate. His problems are not system problems, he problem is that he is a crappy player.

You're right, if the Cards want to win they do need to pick a QB and stick with him and allow him to develop. So the last thing they should do is pick a guy who will be nearly 30 when he is "developed".

If the Cards were so low on Leinart that cutting him before last year was an option then they should have drafted a player LAST year, or even the year before and allowed him to groom, but they didnt. After last seasons QB apocalypse they SHOULD have drafted a QB for the future, but instead they wanted a guy who could help them immediately. Now they have their "immediate" fix but there can be no debate that he has totally sucked to this point (while putting up the same stats he did before the trade).

If you want them to develop a player and stick with him then your entire basis for standing behind Kolb is flawed.

 

[TJ]

You should give your boy TJ a big hug, you come back to the board acting like a total clown, get called out for it, and he still sticks up for you. Quite admirable, that's true devotion. You guys are the best, congrats on the big win, you should be proud of an unbelievable season.

Likewise on your season.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

You should give your boy TJ a big hug, you come back to the board acting like a total clown, get called out for it, and he still sticks up for you. Quite admirable, that's true devotion. You guys are the best, congrats on the big win, you should be proud of an unbelievable season.

I dont know why I'm acting like a clown with this thread. I knew it would not be the majority opinion and I defintely knew the same 3 posters (cheese, k9, and DJ) would take it it upon themselves to go over the top in response as they only defenders of common sense and logic that they are. But at least they they brought some insight into the conversation with their pot shots unlike yourself. Or maybe you are talking about the fact I have been amPed about my school and have not been hiding it. Well hell we had a good week while our rivals fell on their face. So if that's what you are referring too, well better to be in my spot then yours I guess.

As for TJ - him having my back is expected. We are actual friends not just Internet friends. In fact we watched that debacle last week together as I was in town visiting.

So again great contribution!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

totally unfair comparison... Moore didn't have to learn the single most complicated offensive system in the history of mankind like Kolb did! I mean, it took Kurt Warner two years to learn Wiz's system... even though in his first game in it, he came off the bench in Baltimore to riddle the Ravens for 250 and 2 TDs while playing in it.

I actually like Matt Moore and think he can be a Top 12 tyPe starter so I'm not sure what K9s point is.

As for your terrible attempt at sarcasm, you do remember that game right? Yeah it's completely amazing that Warner had success coming in running no huddle against a Ravens team that had game planned all week for Leinart. I'm sure catching them off guard wasn't in Wizs mind at all with that move. Not too mention having 8 games to watch and a full offseason unlike Kolb.

Thing that pisses me off is that no matter how many time I counter your and K9s Swiss cheese arguments with actual substance and logic, you STILL can't just let bygones be bygones as if it's so ridiculous I can't see things the way the great Cheese does. The more I disagree with you both the better in my opinion. You two are both jaded and bitter IMO not the "realists" you perceive yourselves to be.

Bottom line is Kolbs getting at least another year and since it's widely Understood where I stand and where you guys do it will be fun to see who ends up being right and wrong and I'll take much greater satisfaction if I'm right as I didn't just take my views from popular opinion.

And if I'm wrong? Oh well. I was wrong on Matt like yOu were wrong on McCown and k9 continues to be wrong about Washington and most everything else.

Does anyone here think they are never wrong? Sure hope not.

But what's popular and what's right aren't always the same.

 

[Phrazbit]

I actually like Matt Moore and think he can be a Top 12 tyPe starter so I'm not sure what K9s point is.

As for your terrible attempt at sarcasm, you do remember that game right? Yeah it's completely amazing that Warner had success coming in running no huddle against a Ravens team that had game planned all week for Leinart. I'm sure catching them off guard wasn't in Wizs mind at all with that move. Not too mention having 8 games to watch and a full offseason unlike Kolb.

Thing that pisses me off is that no matter how many time I counter your and K9s Swiss cheese arguments with actual substance and logic, you STILL can't just let bygones be bygones as if it's so ridiculous I can't see things the way the great Cheese does. The more I disagree with you both the better in my opinion. You two are both jaded and bitter IMO not the "realists" you perceive yourselves to be.

Bottom line is Kolbs getting at least another year and since it's widely Understood where I stand and where you guys do it will be fun to see who ends up being right and wrong and I'll take much greater satisfaction if I'm right as I didn't just take my views from popular opinion.

And if I'm wrong? Oh well. I was wrong on Matt like yOu were wrong on McCown and k9 continues to be wrong about Washington and most everything else.

Does anyone here think they are never wrong? Sure hope not.

But what's popular and what's right aren't always the same.

The popular opinion WAS to buy into the unsubstantiated Kolb hype.

You're just too stubborn to realize that Kolb's hype grossly outweighed his talent.

Forget all of the silly insults that you are lobbing around. What does Kolb do well? What are his "plus" abilities as a QB? Why is there ANY reason to think he will ever be a reliable NFL player. And how in the hell could ANYONE think he has franchise potential.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The popular opinion WAS to buy into the unsubstantiated Kolb hype.

You're just too stubborn to realize that Kolb's hype grossly outweighed his talent.

Forget all of the silly insults that you are lobbing around. What does Kolb do well? What are his "plus" abilities as a QB? Why is there ANY reason to think he will ever be a reliable NFL player. And how in the hell could ANYONE think he has franchise potential.

Who are you again?

Ill answer anyway. I think he has a good arm and release, is accurate mostly, and I like his mobility. I also like how his teammates love him, he says all the right things and apparently a hard worker. I also like the last time he was in a offense for awhile in Philly he broke records for Passing yardage over first three starts.

Why is this so hard to understand? I WANT TO GIVE HIM MORE THAN 7 GAMES BEFORE DECIDING HE'S A BUST.

Jesus back the f*** off. Doesn't really seem that illogical to me. What it comes down to is I like more information before forming a strong opinion and you react to what you see and make sweeping generalizations over what I consider to be small sample size.

 

[Phrazbit]

Who are you again?

Ill answer anyway. I think he has a good arm and release, is accurate mostly, and I like his mobility. I also like how his teammates love him, he says all the right things and apparently a hard worker. I also like the last time he was in a offense for awhile in Philly he broke records for Passing yardage over first three starts.

Why is this so hard to understand? I WANT TO GIVE HIM MORE THAN 7 GAMES BEFORE DECIDING HE'S A BUST.

Jesus back the f*** off. Doesn't really seem that illogical to me. What it comes down to is I like more information before forming a strong opinion and you react to what you see and make sweeping generalizations over what I consider to be small sample size.

My sample size is his entire career. You have made "sweeping generalizations" over what he did in grand total of 2 games while in Philly, and ignore the rest of his play there and here.

I am not looking at 7 games, I am looking at 5 years, this guy is not a rookie, he has taken the field in 26 different games. His stats taken as a whole are very underwhelming. His play on film is even worse. He does not have a strong arm, his instincts are absolutely terrible, he cant read a defense, he is inaccurate if asked to throw a ball more than 10 yards.

And the last time he was in Philly he put up awful stats and played to a 2-4 record while his team went 8-2 in games where he did not see the field.

You can act as arrogant as you want with your "who are you again" garbage, but it gives no credence to your argument, it just makes you seem like an ass.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I actually like Matt Moore and think he can be a Top 12 tyPe starter so I'm not sure what K9s point is.

I think his point is new players in a new system don't have to look like complete crap. Kinda of an easy point to see.

As for your terrible attempt at sarcasm, you do remember that game right? Yeah it's completely amazing that Warner had success coming in running no huddle against a Ravens team that had game planned all week for Leinart. I'm sure catching them off guard wasn't in Wizs mind at all with that move. Not too mention having 8 games to watch and a full offseason unlike Kolb.

you're asking me if i remember right? warner had 8 games to watch? this happened in the 3rd game of the season and my sarcasm was mostly about the ridiculous notion that it took two years for warner to master this system when the reality is that no matter what the circumstances, the guy became a flame thrower the first time he stepped on the field and lit up the league from that moment on. again, not a hard point to see.

Thing that pisses me off is that no matter how many time I counter your and K9s Swiss cheese arguments with actual substance and logic, you STILL can't just let bygones be bygones as if it's so ridiculous I can't see things the way the great Cheese does. [/QOTE]

LOL... where is your susbtance and logic? and i could care less about bygones. you run around here beating your chest like you know eveything and when it's clear you don't, you completely disappear like a baby... then come back and call people fools like you did in your first post.

The more I disagree with you both the better in my opinion. You two are both jaded and bitter IMO not the "realists" you perceive yourselves to be.

Bottom line is Kolbs getting at least another year and since it's widely Understood where I stand and where you guys do it will be fun to see who ends up being right and wrong and I'll take much greater satisfaction if I'm right as I didn't just take my views from popular opinion.

lol again... really, it's widely understood? do you forget that i actually WANTED kolb? or that i think kolb needs to get back in there again because we need to see what we really have in him? do you have any clue about anything you ever talk about? i haven't completely written kolb off but i'm definitely worried that i just haven't seen one standout thing he does to hang my hat on. but i'm not calling for him to be cut or anything.

try getting a clue about my position before you start jamming opinions down my throat and try to stick around whether you look like a fool or not. the board's always more interesting with more people with bombastic opinions. otherwise things get a little dull around here.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Didn't go through the whole thread, because its pretty much a rehash of the same stuff that's been on the board for a week (or three).

Just wanted to say that I think it's amazing the amount of bandwith that's being devoted to KK and Skelton. The hours and hours of time spent typing well-thought out (and not so well thought out) positions and arguments.

I salute your passion gentlemen!


Cards 17 Rams 14