Kolb's my guy...for better or worse - Pt. Deux

[clif]

Sounds more like Kevin Kolb isn't your guy. I'm not trying to sell you on the idea that he's the man for years to come, but you cannot criticize his progressions and to a large degree his pocket presence without looking up front. 17 sacks in 2 games. I know he missed some throws tonight, but holy smokes, if the defense is able to get pressure on the QB by only bringing four, there a) isn't much to choose from as far as open receivers and b) there isn't much time to make a choice. Kolb and the running backs are in a lose-lose situation until changes are made on the o-line and with its coach.

 

[TJ]

Aaron Rodgers was sacked 4 or 5 times in the first Q vs. Seattle and Green Bay has managed to have a productive offense.

Eli Manning won a Super Bowl last year with one of the worst rated offensive lines in the league.

Peyton Manning is throwing up 300 yard games behind an offensive line in Denver which couldn't protect Kyle Orton.

Of course there are excuses on why Kevin Kolb isn't making plays, but top NFL QBs overcome these obstacles. Matt Ryan did it last week in Atlanta. Kevin Kolb showed his limitations today. He missed Fitz in man coverage pre snap, and then didn't follow his progressions to him in the same play. He missed both Roberts and Housler deep which he struggles with. If Kolb makes those plays, we are playing with the lead rather than from behind. Kolb brainfarted in the red zone throwing a 4th down slant to Fitz 3 yards from the end zone. Kolb is a limited player, accept that and either try to put a bunch pieces around him and hope he changes or bring in a player less limited.

So you're trying to convince me that the lines of Atlanta, NYG, Green Bay, and Denver are worse than ours? I wish we could bring in the aforementioned QB as a control group to your hypothesis and see if they make plays with this line. I'd imagine their performance would decline.

Yes, Kolb has his weaknesses but to put him as the fall guy for 17 sacks in two games, numerous QB hits, and hurries, is way off base. The offensive line has been near the bottom of the ranks in pass protection for a while now and only got worse with the injuries to Bridges and Brown. And the guards are getting pushed back to the point where the pocket is as big as a phone booth. Asking any QB in the NFL to overcome this obstacle is asking far too much.

I haven't even mentioned the lack of ability to create holes for our RBs and get them to the second level.

While I understand Kolb is going to be the lightning rod for criticism for the remainder of the season, in this case it really isn't valid, IMO. It's like walking onto a farm, seeing horses, and trying to convince the farmer why he has a bunch of zebras on his farm.

If the team puts an average line in front of him (not even great or good), the offensive improves exponential, either because the QB has more time to throw or the run game is established to keep defenses guessing.

 

[clif]

And now you know why Kolb averaged less than 7 YPA in Philly playing with two of the more dynamic receivers in the NFL. He doesn't have the ball placement to get deep passes completed, and once he gets hit a few times he loses the courage to not pad his stats with short, meaningless throws.

Kolb might be lacking in plenty of areas, but courage is not one of them.

 

[kerouac9]

his deep ball really is alarming. Even on the two big ones the last couple weeks, Fitz had to dive for one where he was wide open and the one to Roberts was behind him and he basically had to slow way down and catch the ball behind him on the 45 yard TD last week.

decent intermediate thrower, but down-field, the guy really struggles to hit the big one to anyone in stride.

Missed two big plays to Housler tonight, too. At least. (Aside: I'm glad I was wrong about him. Apologies to Russ--Housler isn't Jimmy Graham, but he's Greg Olsen. If only he could decide that he wanted to block people.)

It goes back to the question you were among the first to ask last year: What is the quality that Kevin Kolb is even B+ at than the rest of the NFL?

Am I the only one that would like Kevin Kolb at least 20% more if he'd shave off the awful goatee? Every time he takes off his helmet I want to punch him in the face.

 

[WarnerHOF]

his deep ball really is alarming. Even on the two big ones the last couple weeks, Fitz had to dive for one where he was wide open and the one to Roberts was behind him and he basically had to slow way down and catch the ball behind him on the 45 yard TD last week.

decent intermediate thrower, but down-field, the guy really struggles to hit the big one to anyone in stride.

i have never seen him hit any receivers on a deep ball outside the numbers. when i played fantasy football, kolb was every desean jackson owners worst nightmare

 

[Cheesebeef]

Missed two big plays to Housler tonight, too. At least. (Aside: I'm glad I was wrong about him. Apologies to Russ--Housler isn't Jimmy Graham, but he's Greg Olsen. If only he could decide that he wanted to block people.)

It goes back to the question you were among the first to ask last year: What is the quality that Kevin Kolb is even B+ at than the rest of the NFL?

Am I the only one that would like Kevin Kolb at least 20% more if he'd shave off the awful goatee? Every time he takes off his helmet I want to punch him in the face.

YOU want to punch him in the face? Dude looks EXACTLY like one of my burn-out friends from Jersey. I can't stand it.

 

[Chopper0080]

So you're trying to convince me that the lines of Atlanta, NYG, Green Bay, and Denver are worse than ours? I wish we could bring in the aforementioned QB as a control group to your hypothesis and see if they make plays with this line. I'd imagine their performance would decline.

Yes, Kolb has his weaknesses but to put him as the fall guy for 17 sacks in two games, numerous QB hits, and hurries, is way off base. The offensive line has been near the bottom of the ranks in pass protection for a while now and only got worse with the injuries to Bridges and Brown. And the guards are getting pushed back to the point where the pocket is as big as a phone booth. Asking any QB in the NFL to overcome this obstacle is asking far too much.

I haven't even mentioned the lack of ability to create holes for our RBs and get them to the second level.

While I understand Kolb is going to be the lightning rod for criticism for the remainder of the season, in this case it really isn't valid, IMO. It's like walking onto a farm, seeing horses, and trying to convince the farmer why he has a bunch of zebras on his farm.

If the team puts an average line in front of him (not even great or good), the offensive improves exponential, either because the QB has more time to throw or the run game is established to keep defenses guessing.

Kevin Kolb is average to below average in every aspect of his NFL game. How is this debatable? He is an average QB who produces like an average QB. When things are perfect, he will perform above average. When things are not perfect, he will perform below average. It is pretty simple.

 

[Mulli]

And now you know why Kolb averaged less than 7 YPA in Philly playing with two of the more dynamic receivers in the NFL. He doesn't have the ball placement to get deep passes completed, and once he gets hit a few times he loses the courage to not pad his stats with short, meaningless throws.

If he would get the ball out for more short throws, it might work.

And "passes over 20 yards are hard to complete"

:laugh: kidding

 

[Shane]

you can't miss two SURE TD bombs and two 30-40 yard gains and not be part of the problem. He had a hand in the loss, just the same as the rest of the offense. If he just hits 25% of four HUGE plays it's a different ball game. He can't miss EVERY big play. He just can't. Especially when he had time on those plays.

He clearly doesn't muss every big play. He made some damn big plays and throws in other games. It was a bad night it happens even to the great with great protection. He was part of the probkem. But agsin this ol is a complete and utter joke. Dude is tough as nails. Don't expect him to be perfect especially behind this line and with your WRs dropping catchable balls all night long.

 

[kerouac9]

If he would get the ball out for more short throws, it might work.

And "passes over 20 yards are hard to complete"

:laugh: kidding

He did. There are tons of passes that ended up 8-12 yard gains that only flew 4-6 yards past the line of scrimmage. That's how we matriculated the ball down the field on the first series, and why we have a hard time coming back from second-and-eight situations.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He clearly doesn't muss every big play. He made some damn big plays and throws in other games.

that's great Shane, but my post was about TONIGHT.

It was a bad night it happens even to the great with great protection. He was part of the probkem. But agsin this ol is a complete and utter joke. Dude is tough as nails. Don't expect him to be perfect especially behind this line and with your WRs dropping catchable balls all night long.

perfect? i just wanted to see him hit ONE of FOUR huge plays. I'd be happy with 25%%. but 0% just won't cut it.

and I've already slammed the O-line. they're AWFUL.

You just can't continually miss the type of throws he's missing tho Shane. you gotta hit those at a 50% clip IMO if you're gonna be a true sturdy QB and I don't think he's done that.

 

[TJ]

Kevin Kolb is average to below average in every aspect of his NFL game. How is this debatable? He is an average QB who produces like an average QB. When things are perfect, he will perform above average. When things are not perfect, he will perform below average. It is pretty simple.

I don't believe Kolb should get any kudos for tonight's performance, but if you continue to attack Kolb without even acknowledging the porous production of the line (especially when you attempt to analyze his timing and progressions), you are blind to the real issue at hand.

You're correct when you say great QBs overcome adversity, but 9 sacks allowed (17 in two games), no running game (70 yards in two game), and numerous QB hits is a lot of adversity for ANY player to overcome.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't believe Kolb should get any kudos for tonight's performance, but if you continue to attack Kolb without even acknowledging the porous production of the line (especially when you attempt to analyze his timing and progressions), you are blind to the real issue at hand.

You're correct when you say great QBs overcome adversity, but 9 sacks allowed (17 in two games), no running game (70 yards in two game), and numerous QB hits is a lot of adversity for ANY player to overcome.

We'd be able to run more if Kolb wasn't taking sacks in every second-and-six situation so that we can't run the ball anymore.

Hard to run the ball when you're facing 2nd-and-13 series after series. That's not all on the OL. There are ways to get rid of the ball when no one's open without losing yards.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

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[27Veer]

Hey, Chop, we agree! Rams secondary was so weak it exposed Kolb because he missed so many opportunities.

I look forward to seeing Skelton. :cringe:

This, Whiz has stated that a player doesn't lose starting position because of an injury, look for Skelton next week. Kolb won't mind, he wants to stay alive.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Actually Kolb would mind, he would not have taken that beating today the way he did if he did not care. Skelton and Kolb are not scared of death itself, they have proven that by being on this team with this OL.

 

[Hollywood]

We'd be able to run more if Kolb wasn't taking sacks in every second-and-six situation so that we can't run the ball anymore.

Hard to run the ball when you're facing 2nd-and-13 series after series. That's not all on the OL. There are ways to get rid of the ball when no one's open without losing yards.

Yeah, its called fumbling.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was actually pretty stunned that we threw the ball at the end of the first half after the stupid penalty wiped out the punt return.

Kolb is clearly lit up from that helmet helmet hit bleeding in the mouth on the sideline. With his history recently of injury, knowing the backup is Lindley, as far away as we were I'd have handed the ball off 3 times and got ready to get the ball to start the 2nd half.

It really surprised me that Whiz didn't give Kolb a little break there and basically send a message to the OL 3 straight run plays do what you can.

 

[Russ Smith]

you can't miss two SURE TD bombs and two 30-40 yard gains and not be part of the problem. He had a hand in the loss, just the same as the rest of the offense. If he just hits 25% of four HUGE plays it's a different ball game. He can't miss EVERY big play. He just can't. Especially when he had time on those plays.

Yep that was my issue with his play last night every chance he had to make a big play he missed. He made some good plays on his own but when set plays are open you gotta get them.

He just can't make that throw where you have to lead the guy out in front or drop it over a defender. He did it to Fitz over Finegan on the sideline I thnk that's the first time I've seen him do that and complete it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Missed two big plays to Housler tonight, too. At least. (Aside: I'm glad I was wrong about him. Apologies to Russ--Housler isn't Jimmy Graham, but he's Greg Olsen. If only he could decide that he wanted to block people.)

It goes back to the question you were among the first to ask last year: What is the quality that Kevin Kolb is even B+ at than the rest of the NFL?

Am I the only one that would like Kevin Kolb at least 20% more if he'd shave off the awful goatee? Every time he takes off his helmet I want to punch him in the face.

I want to know who decided to stop going to Housler at halftime? He had 3 catches 45 yards in the first half, could have had 1 TD and maybe 2 more if Kolb makes good throws.

And in the 2nd half he seemed to be in far less, we kept playing Floyd instead.

Floyd did have a nice catch and run but Housler was open the entire first half.

And I will never forgive Adam Snyder for screwing up that 2nd pass to Sherman if he doesn't get in Sherman's way that's probably a TD and that 4th down disaster play to Fitz never happens. I guess he was trying to make a block but he killed that play.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Our interior line is like a bar full of ugly girls. Here and there they don't ruin the vibe, but when they are all together, it is just unbearable.

Maybe we can sign Nick Mangolds sister

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Kolb also missed on the screen that wasnt mentioned.

He was also saved from 2 pick sixes, and another dropped interception. On one, the DE tipped the pass the Cortland Finnegan would of taken to the house, on the other, Fitz tried to rip the guys facemask off his helmet.

Kolb was awful tonight. End of story.

Brilliant!!!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Kevin Kolb is average to below average in every aspect of his NFL game. How is this debatable? He is an average QB who produces like an average QB. When things are perfect, he will perform above average. When things are not perfect, he will perform below average. It is pretty simple.[/QUOTE]

Yeah... and the same rule applies to Tom Brady!!!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Aaron Rodgers was sacked 4 or 5 times in the first Q vs. Seattle and Green Bay has managed to have a productive offense.

Eli Manning won a Super Bowl last year with one of the worst rated offensive lines in the league.

Peyton Manning is throwing up 300 yard games behind an offensive line in Denver which couldn't protect Kyle Orton.

Of course there are excuses on why Kevin Kolb isn't making plays, but top NFL QBs overcome these obstacles. Matt Ryan did it last week in Atlanta. Kevin Kolb showed his limitations today. He missed Fitz in man coverage pre snap, and then didn't follow his progressions to him in the same play. He missed both Roberts and Housler deep which he struggles with. If Kolb makes those plays, we are playing with the lead rather than from behind. Kolb brainfarted in the red zone throwing a 4th down slant to Fitz 3 yards from the end zone. Kolb is a limited player, accept that and either try to put a bunch pieces around him and hope he changes or bring in a player less limited.

He hit Housler in the hands. And how about the passes that were either dropped or passed through the hands of Doucet and our number one pick?

All of these could have been part of changing the games complexion and placing us in the lead.

Kolb is not one of the Mannings, but, God knows they've had more than a few horrible games... "brainfarts" and all. And he doesn't have the accuracy of a Rodgers, but, there is every reason to believe that with REASONABLE line play he can win more than his share.

There is no Ryan heroics for Atlanta without Roddy White....

Every QB is LIMITED by the play of the 10 people out there with him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Kevin Kolb is average to below average in every aspect of his NFL game. How is this debatable? He is an average QB who produces like an average QB. When things are perfect, he will perform above average. When things are not perfect, he will perform below average. It is pretty simple.

I think he has above average mobility. In fact, I think he'd be praised for his escapability if he had even a little pocket awareness.

Personally, I'm hoping he's also above average in common sense. If he is, we'll look back at this Rams game as Kolb's final game in the NFL. He's probably the best we have but I don't see how it's in his best long term interest to keep taking these hits.

Steve