Kolb's my guy...for better or worse - Pt. Deux

[AzStevenCal]

He hit Housler in the hands. And how about the passes that were either dropped or passed through the hands of Doucet and our number one pick?

All of these could have been part of changing the games complexion and placing us in the lead.

Kolb is not one of the Mannings, but, God knows they've had more than a few horrible games... "brainfarts" and all. And he doesn't have the accuracy of a Rodgers, but, there is every reason to believe that with REASONABLE line play he can win more than his share.

There is no Ryan heroics for Atlanta without Roddy White....

Every QB is LIMITED by the play of the 10 people out there with him.

If your point is that we could have won the game yesterday even with Kolb and our O line performance, I think most of us would agree. I don't think that changes much though.

Steve

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Blok played like Blok. He is what he is.

I am going to have a blatant "I told you so" type moment, please bear with me on it, its for purely explanation purposes. Last night was the perfect example of why I kept, and will keep saying to throw the stats out the window when talking about the Cardinals QB situation. Kolb's stat line was OK last night, "better then anything Skelton puts out there", but didn't make the plays when he needed to, and the result was a loss. Thus why stats are great and all but they don't tell the whole story. Wins do. Thus why I have been saying it, and I had to take the opportunity to have a good example of what I was talking about.

That being said.

1. Kolb got killed last night by his coaching staff, and offensive linemen. Sure he missed plays but no more then he usually does. I kinda felt bad for him last night.

2. Anyone who says Skelton would have made some of those throws is crazy. He MAY have made them, but I know Double Deuce, and I don't think he does any better in the 1st half of this football game, if history has shown us anything. Nor do I think Skelton would have taken that beating any better.

3. I have to say one thing about Kolb. He stood in the pocket, fearless until the 4th quarter when he was trying his butt off to make something happen. His long pass to Fitz in the 4th quarter showed some serious, serious heart. Not only that, how he held onto the ball and didn't turn it over was amazing. I was impressed.

4. You cannot throw the ball that much in the NFL. Yeah, yeah, I know the offensive line sucks, and I know they couldn't run the ball, but these are professional NFL coaches, why does it take so long for them to go to screens, and HOW IN THE HECK DOES THE KING'S OF THE SHOTGUN DRAW NOT USE IT WHEN IT FINALLY IS TIME TO ? Our coaching staff got taken behind the wood shed, and beaten unmerciful in that game. They had NO answer for the Rams' game plan. We are 4-1 and I have some trust in this staff, but that was very poor.

5. Concerning Kolb. He should still start. I would have Skelton warming up in the pen, but Kolb should start. My biggest worry, is that this game reminded me up Seattle last year at Seattle. I hope Kolb rebounds, and not the other way around.

Meh, 4-1. That Rams team, as I said, execute perfectly. Tip of the hat to them.


Sent from Rugbymuffin's Super Phone

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't believe Kolb should get any kudos for tonight's performance, but if you continue to attack Kolb without even acknowledging the porous production of the line (especially when you attempt to analyze his timing and progressions), you are blind to the real issue at hand.

You're correct when you say great QBs overcome adversity, but 9 sacks allowed (17 in two games), no running game (70 yards in two game), and numerous QB hits is a lot of adversity for ANY player to overcome.

I am confused why you think I am attacking Kevin Kolb? What I have always stated is that Kolb is a limited player. What has Kolb done to prove this isn't a true statement? What I have said is that Klob struggles to identify coverages pre snap. What has he done to prove this is inaccurate? Kolb struggles with his accuracy on deep, vertical routes. How is that not factual?

My point is Kolb has a ceiling, and we as a team have two choices. Either we put a ton of resources into our offensive line and running game and hope in big games he is not put in less than ideal situations or we find someone else who can do more with less.

If Kolb hits those missed TDs early, this is an entirely different game. His limitations made this game more difficult than it needed to be.

 

[Chopper0080]

Kevin Kolb is average to below average in every aspect of his NFL game. How is this debatable? He is an average QB who produces like an average QB. When things are perfect, he will perform above average. When things are not perfect, he will perform below average. It is pretty simple.[/QUOTE]

Yeah... and the same rule applies to Tom Brady!!!

Nope. Brady makes the most of opportunities when they are presented, and Kolb missed them. With Brady at QB, we are playing from behind the entire game.

 

[Chopper0080]

He hit Housler in the hands. And how about the passes that were either dropped or passed through the hands of Doucet and our number one pick?

All of these could have been part of changing the games complexion and placing us in the lead.

Kolb is not one of the Mannings, but, God knows they've had more than a few horrible games... "brainfarts" and all. And he doesn't have the accuracy of a Rodgers, but, there is every reason to believe that with REASONABLE line play he can win more than his share.

There is no Ryan heroics for Atlanta without Roddy White....

Every QB is LIMITED by the play of the 10 people out there with him.

He hit Housler in the hands because Housler had to come back to the ball and try and go through a defender to do so. Roberts was open running left and Kolb misses him because he throws it over the other shoulder. These mistakes aren't on the wide receivers. Did Kolb get helped out later inthe game? Nope. Not by his line or wide receivers, but that is what happens when you squander opportunities to make big plays.

 

[Russ Smith]

He hit Housler in the hands because Housler had to come back to the ball and try and go through a defender to do so. Roberts was open running left and Kolb misses him because he throws it over the other shoulder. These mistakes aren't on the wide receivers. Did Kolb get helped out later inthe game? Nope. Not by his line or wide receivers, but that is what happens when you squander opportunities to make big plays.

yep totally agree he hits those plays we're ahead not behind and not throwing on every down.

I like Kolb I think he's improved but those throws early were the reason he got beaten up later. The Rams got the lead and we can't run so we HAD to throw and then the OL issues become a problem.

Housler COULD have caught that ball but he shouldn't have to make that kind of effort to do so. He had his man beaten but Kevin didn't get it there. Then not seeing Fitz, missing Roberts, underthrowing Housler so it's tipped away. Those plays are hit we're never in a position of having to throw the whole 2nd half.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Nope. Brady makes the most of opportunities when they are presented, and Kolb missed them. With Brady at QB, we are playing from behind the entire game.

You did watch AZ at NE this year, right?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

He hit Housler in the hands because Housler had to come back to the ball and try and go through a defender to do so. Roberts was open running left and Kolb misses him because he throws it over the other shoulder. These mistakes aren't on the wide receivers. Did Kolb get helped out later inthe game? Nope. Not by his line or wide receivers, but that is what happens when you squander opportunities to make big plays.

So - the generally accepted belief that if the ball is the W/O catching radius it falls to him to make the catch, doesn't apply when Kolb makes the throw. Got it!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

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That is great. 5/5

 

[kerouac9]

yep totally agree he hits those plays we're ahead not behind and not throwing on every down.

I like Kolb I think he's improved but those throws early were the reason he got beaten up later. The Rams got the lead and we can't run so we HAD to throw and then the OL issues become a problem.

Housler COULD have caught that ball but he shouldn't have to make that kind of effort to do so. He had his man beaten but Kevin didn't get it there. Then not seeing Fitz, missing Roberts, underthrowing Housler so it's tipped away. Those plays are hit we're never in a position of having to throw the whole 2nd half.

We can run, and we can run effectively. Even with WiPo and with Alphonso Smith. We just decided not to do so because we wanted to make our inexperience tackles even further beaten down metaphorically and our quarterback more beaten down literally.

 

[Russ Smith]

We can run, and we can run effectively. Even with WiPo and with Alphonso Smith. We just decided not to do so because we wanted to make our inexperience tackles even further beaten down metaphorically and our quarterback more beaten down literally.

We can't run well enough to win. I agree we abandoned it too early last night but we're not good enough run blocking wise to just line up and run the ball consistently.

But the problem last night was the plays there early Kolb missed. If we get ahead and we still abandon the run it's a lot easier for me to blast the coaches.

As I said last night I was amazed we didn't run the last 3 plays of the half with Kolb bleeding from the mouth after the punt return came back on penalty. No point at all having Kolb throw a few more before the half there. It was 55 seconds when that play happened and he threw 4 passes after that hit.

Yeah we were 30 yards from FG range but he was bleeding from the mouth jaw loose, we get the ball to start the 2nd half.



Then we come out after half and lose 4 yards on first down then incomplete then short pass punt.

 

[kerouac9]

We can't run well enough to win. I agree we abandoned it too early last night but we're not good enough run blocking wise to just line up and run the ball consistently.

But the problem last night was the plays there early Kolb missed. If we get ahead and we still abandon the run it's a lot easier for me to blast the coaches.

As I said last night I was amazed we didn't run the last 3 plays of the half with Kolb bleeding from the mouth after the punt return came back on penalty. No point at all having Kolb throw a few more before the half there. It was 55 seconds when that play happened and he threw 4 passes after that hit.

Yeah we were 30 yards from FG range but he was bleeding from the mouth jaw loose, we get the ball to start the 2nd half.



Then we come out after half and lose 4 yards on first down then incomplete then short pass punt.

Well, we can't run the ball like the Falcons did with Michael Turner three or four years ago, but we also can't abandon the run because we're only down by a TD. In the first 16 play drive of the game, we ran the ball 6 times and were productive at managing down-and-distance situations. When we abandoned the run for the next five or six series, we ended up losing control of the field-position game and started allowing the Rams D to tee off on Kolb.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We can run, and we can run effectively. Even with WiPo and with Alphonso Smith. We just decided not to do so because we wanted to make our inexperience tackles even further beaten down metaphorically and our quarterback more beaten down literally.

I get it, that the post above is tongue in cheek but if ANYTHING makes me scratch my head it is this.

Why on earth did we abandon the run so quickly. Maybe the field position edge that the Rams have because of their amazing punter and kicker made our team panic ?

The Cardinals responded well to the first TD score, and patiently drove down the field in response. After Legatron DRILLED, and I MEAN DRILLED a 50+ yarder our entire team, and staff seemed to panic.

 

[kerouac9]

I get it, that the post above is tongue in cheek but if ANYTHING makes me scratch my head it is this.

Why on earth did we abandon the run so quickly. Maybe the field position edge that the Rams have because of their amazing punter and kicker made our team panic ?

The Cardinals responded well to the first TD score, and patiently drove down the field in response. After Legatron DRILLED, and I MEAN DRILLED a 50+ yarder our entire team, and staff seemed to panic.

I think it was the Rams' first drive more than it was even the second one. The Rams went right down the field, and the D didn't put up much resistance. I think that is what sent the coaching staff into a panic that we were going to have to score 24 points to win the game, and that means passing the ball over and over.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think it was the Rams' first drive more than it was even the second one. The Rams went right down the field, and the D didn't put up much resistance. I think that is what sent the coaching staff into a panic that we were going to have to score 24 points to win the game, and that means passing the ball over and over.

It is going to be a matter of opinion here so I don't think we can debate it too much. To me ? Our first drive was more balance, and patient, after Legatron belted that 50+ FG we seemed to abandoned the run game.

Regardless the point still remained that we both think our offensive coordinator panicked, and abandoned the run WAY WAY too early.

With the understanding we couldn't run the ball, but a draw, or screen or anything to keep the DL guessing would have help. I mean if you are going to go 3 & out, then go 3 & out but set SOMETHING up for later.

 

[THESMEL]

Kolb won't survive - neither will Skelton- this offense is a QB and oline Killer- I'm surprised Kolb didn't scream no Mas and thow up his hands- if he could get them off his face- trying to hold his head on.

 

[TRW]

I thought Kolb played the same he has all season. This is who he is. He is not great pre snap. He is not great working through his progressions. He is not consistent throwing the ball down the field. He struggles at times with his pocket presence. This is who Kolb is, and he is not a rookie who is 22 with limited professional coaching. Yes, if the pocket is clean and he has time, Kolb can be as good as most QBs in the NFL. The problem is that this is rarely the case especially against the better teams in the NFL. Franchise QBs make plays and execute when things are breaking down all around them. Kevin Kolb isn't that guy.

This is, perhaps, the most rational and apt description of Kevin Kolb I have seen so far.

Kudos Chopper!

 

[Chopper0080]

So - the generally accepted belief that if the ball is the W/O catching radius it falls to him to make the catch, doesn't apply when Kolb makes the throw. Got it!

Yes, when you are reaching through another player with one arm because the ball is under-thrown and the ball bounces off that arm, you get a pass.

 

[Chopper0080]

You did watch AZ at NE this year, right?

That game has nothing to do with the argument you are trying to make. Brady did not miss wide receivers running free down the field when the Pats played the Cards. However, Kolb did miss wide open receivers down the field which is something Tom Brady does not do.