KT v Duncan and Suns v Spurs: An Analysis

[The Man In Black]

No you didn't want to talk hoops anymore so now you're on a diatribe. I get it. It's called having a counter. Since you didn't have one from a basketball standpoint, you decided to attack character and then an entire state. Your choice. It's a free country. It's a forum and some members have asked about my view point. If you can't hang intellectually on the court, then perhaps a different thread might picque your interest. I'm here to talk hoops. So...do you have anything to say regarding the glorious game of basketball and it's intricacies in game play?

OBTW I live in the same city Robert Sarver and Steve Kerr live in. Maybe you've heard of San Diego, CA and it's because of Sean Elliott that I'm a Spurs fan, I'm sure you've heard of him a former U of A legend? OK. Now that you know...let's talk just hoops.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Dude, there is no counter to the San Antonio spin machine. Keep patting yourself on the back, im sorry you dont realize the futility of your position. Would you like me to perpetuate the hypothetical-scenario-followed-by-hypothetical-counter drivel youve been pounding at the last two weeks? Youve gone from sensible pot-stirrer to anklebiter, I just thought I'd join in.

The spurs can do no wrong in your eyes other than defend the midrange game. And im sure once that concept gets heavier focus, youll have an arsenal of rhetoric to lay down that youve been dying to get out.

News flash. There is nothing glorious about the Spurs or their game. Bowen is the dirtiest player in the league with no one even worth considering for a close second, Horry took the biggest cheap shot of the season on one of the classiest guys to grace the game and it turned out to work into his team's favor, Duncan will need ocular surgery the next time a whistle is blown near him, Manu disgraces the game so much with his flopping to the point that people lower their opinion of foreign players altogether, you have two big stiffs that have such a small role on the team that they can play sub par and still get praised for their 'role playing', and the only player worth attention in your lineup gets overshadowed by his wife.

So taking all that into consideration, I decided to bring up the character and class of your favorite team, which you spun so hard my eyes crossed.

The Sean Elliot spurs era had more respect on a per game basis than the 06-07 spurs had all season. Shame on you for using Elliot to justify rooting for the team now. The current spurs have all but removed the glory from the game of basketball.

But at least the team runs a tight ship and plays well together!

 

[The Man In Black]

You focused on 1player and now you're saying that it has a full team of dirty players. Are we going to add picture links to D'Antoni after every call? Raja Bell is your close 2nd, perhaps it's because he chooses to work out with the same Bruce Bowen inthe off-season in Miami. Everyone complains, it gets magnified because Tim is so stoic at everything else he does that that is all you casual fans and media people see. Raja Bell has more flops than Ginobili did last season, that is a stat you can look up. Perhaps the only reason people see it more on Ginobili is that he does it during Conference and NBA Finals? Roles are roles, it's a team game and not everyone can be stars. Tell me YJGS'd...are you going to call Brian Skinner and Kiwi Sean Marks...stars, if they aren't then what are they...that'sright role players. You just better hope that they can average 7 & 7 cause we can get that easily enough with Fab and Fran.
About Tony Parker...yes Eva is hot, but it doesn't matter, the guy was balling well enough to beat Steve Nash in every series that they've played against each other.

There ain't anything to spin. But since you decided to turn this into a whining session, I will end my responses to you...unless of course you can talk basketball. Have an opinion on the triple-post offense? Great let me hear it, have a defensive set that will limit Parker's penetration to the rim...great-enlighten us o genius of the Suns board. If ya don't have an analysis like the topic thread says...then why are you here?

 

[The Man In Black]

Oh and incidentally there is plenty the Spurs can do wrong, but I don't have to tell you that. I'm interested in seeing what you guys see and then giving you a possible scenario. If that's above you, then I'll await the responses of the people that actually have an understanding of the glorious game.

 

[azirish]

If you asked most Suns fans, they'd say the Spurs are a bit better than the Suns - but not by much. It is that last phrase that seems to turn Spurs fans into idiots. They keep insisting that Spurs are vastly better and that it is inevitable that they will win.

The truth is the Suns are vastly quicker and more athletic than the Spurs. The vaunted Spurs defense let the Suns shoot 47% against them in a series when the Six Man of the Year was hobbled by an elbow injury. The Suns have upgraded the SF position, their backup center (Diaw) is now in much better condition, and the Suns have added some very athletic backups.

The Spurs added Marcus Williams, former U of A disappointment.

But to Spurs fans, nothing has changed as they expect their ageless guys to run the Suns off the floor.

 

[playstation]

He elbowed raja bell in the face as he confronted horry. Funny how you cant recall that part!

Didnt like that it happened, but it happened, and its about the game of basketball... is that really how you cope with it?

Well im sure your whole family is proud to root for a team that plays dirty and received the worst television ratings in NBA history. Whats not to like?! They have fundamentals!

Did you know everyone not living in or from texas hates texas?

Sorry if youre in the mood to spin everything into a spurs dynasty press release, I felt like giving you an outsider's point of view.

dude, this is a HORRIBLE argument. i notice you just try and grate on people's nerves sometimes.

i love how you attack a team for having good fundamentals (LOL) and that plays dirty...while conveniently forgetting that we have a player that straight BODY-SLAMMED another guy to the ground. defend it however you want, he threw kobe down... and we're so classy that we even cheered it.

all is fair in basketball. you play by and/or exploit the rules.

i can't watch the spurs play ball without trying to gouge my eyes out, but they win... and not nearly in as horrid a fashion as say the bad boy pistons. their time will end shortly, hopefully the next major winner will actually make it fun to watch the games (even if you're not a fan of the team).

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I didn't attack the team for having good fundamentals. Dont spin my words. The raja kobe thing was a one on one quarrel that had been boiling through the series. Not sure where I convinced you I forgot about it. That was more than two years ago though, I guess I should have posted it as a disclaimer before I started my rant, right?

My point was that we already have enough suns homers here, we dont need a spurs homer spinning his team to make it sounds like their crap doesnt stink.

All is not fair in basketball, there are rules, and refs to regulate the exploits. You have mistaken it for love and war, as back in the time when that quote was relevant there were no alimony settlements or geneva conventions.

But I digress, spurs suck, suns rule.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I didn't attack the team for having good fundamentals. Dont spin my words. The raja kobe thing was a one on one quarrel that had been boiling through the series. Not sure where I convinced you I forgot about it. That was more than two years ago though...

more than two years ago? When did 17 months become more than two years? And didn't Raja kick some other dude in the nads last season and get suspended for it? We've got our dirty players too - all good teams have 'em.

bottom line - at this point, for whatever reason, the Spurs own this current version of the Suns, be it because of superiority from a physical standpoint in 2005 or from a mental and possibly physical standpoint in last year's series. We'll never know the physical part though because they got us to blow up, as they had been trying to do all series. Getting in a team's head mentally is just as big as beating them physically - just ask the Bad Boys who continually beta on the Bulls until the Bulls finally overcame them or the Celtics who beat up the Lakers in that series with the clothesline on Rambo. Until we can overcome them in both areas, we'll continue to lose to a team that just knows what it takes to win titles. Hopefully this is that year.

 

[The Man In Black]

Just to tell you YJGS- all crap smells like crap.

And AZIrish:

The Spurs added Marcus Williams, former U of A disappointment.

But to Spurs fans, nothing has changed as they expect their ageless guys to run the Suns off the floor.

Williams is the only new player they added who isn't guaranteed a roster spot. If you read todays SA Express-News, it says that:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA101707.01C.Spurs.en.33f6670.html

The guy definitely needs some seasoning in the D-League. They aren't ageless but they do play a defined tempo and it's worked well enough for them to not deviate from it. Phoenix has sought and made changes with getting GHill and while he does give you guys hope, it doesn't mean that it's guaranteed. I like the addition for your team, he is a true triple-threat player who in his younger days was Kobe Bryant sans attitude issues. This version isn't as athletic but is wily and has much to contribute. I hope that Pop has a contingency plan for him, well...we'll know soon enough.

 

[Rbutters91]

Well im sure your whole family is proud to root for a team that plays dirty and received the worst television ratings in NBA history. Whats not to like?! They have fundamentals!

No, they like the fact that they are THE dominant team right now and that they WON A CHAMPIONSHIP!!

 

[SunsJunkee]

No, they like the fact that they are THE dominant team right now and that they WON A CHAMPIONSHIP!!

Oh please, just because they dominated the garbage of the East Coast in the finals, doesn't make them a team for the ages. They didn't prove anything...Bottom line is they needed a big break from the league office to handicap their chief competition in the playoffs. I don't know how the suspensions and the way some of the Spurs players conducted themselves in that series doesn't atleast somewhat cheapen the experience. I know outside of SA the Spurs lost alot of respect among the basketball community, their brand of basketball while boring to some was atleast respected because of their discipline, and their percieved doing things the "right way". i.e. good guys, tough hard nosed basketball. Well the cats out of the bag, their "good guy"facade is gone forever with guys like Bowen and Horry, and like it or not their championship last year was tarnished.

 

[hawaiiansun]

.

 

[ShuHanGuanYu]

Oh please, just because they dominated the garbage of the East Coast in the finals, doesn't make them a team for the ages. They didn't prove anything...Bottom line is they needed a big break from the league office to handicap their chief competition in the playoffs. I don't know how the suspensions and the way some of the Spurs players conducted themselves in that series doesn't atleast somewhat cheapen the experience. I know outside of SA the Spurs lost alot of respect among the basketball community, their brand of basketball while boring to some was atleast respected because of their discipline, and their percieved doing things the "right way". i.e. good guys, tough hard nosed basketball. Well the cats out of the bag, their "good guy"facade is gone forever with guys like Bowen and Horry, and like it or not their championship last year was tarnished.

No, winning four championships in nine years (or three out of five if you want to claim asterik) makes them a team of the ages. Didn't prove anything? Come on now. Love the Suns, but don't let that reduce your common sense to nil.

Suns still have a great chance this year, even without Kurt. If Amare can learn to stay out of foul trouble, they don't need more than him and Skinner down low to get the job done.

 

[The Man In Black]

Ok, some people are still bitter about the ruling even though the rule has been in place for over 10 years. I get that. The Suns played defiantly and almost won that game without Diaw and Stoudamire. Props.

But look, since YJGS'd decided to spout vitriol, we're now off topic.

I acknowledge that the Spurs play Catholic School Basketball with a little attitude. But the organization is results oriented and 4 out of 9 NBA championships plus many teams stealing their coaches and front office people means that they do things effectively and are the gold standard in how basketball teams are run.

 

[da_suns_fan]

Ok, some people are still bitter about the ruling even though the rule has been in place for over 10 years. I get that. The Suns played defiantly and almost won that game without Diaw and Stoudamire. Props.

But look, since YJGS'd decided to spout vitriol, we're now off topic.

I acknowledge that the Spurs play Catholic School Basketball with a little attitude. But the organization is results oriented and 4 out of 9 NBA championships plus many teams stealing their coaches and front office people means that they do things effectively and are the gold standard in how basketball teams are run.

Give me a break. Attitude? Duncan plays as if he doesn't even like basketball.

 

[The Man In Black]

I'll remind you that Duncan has been on an ALL-NBA team and ALL-NBA D team his entire career. So what he is playing is BASKETBALL.

The attitude comes from Bowen and Horry.

 

[The Man In Black]

Oh please, just because they dominated the garbage of the East Coast in the finals, doesn't make them a team for the ages.

Question:
Had the Suns won the title dominating the same East Coast team, would the perception be the same?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

If the Suns played the Cavs in the Finals, Headlines would still read CAKEWALK, but ratings would have skyrocketed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If the Suns played the Cavs in the Finals, Headlines would still read CAKEWALK, but ratings would have skyrocketed.

i really think it's funny when suns fans bring this up. like spurs fans(or any fan of any team who wins a title) cares about ratings as they watch their team hold up the trophy.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

i really think it's funny when suns fans bring this up. like spurs fans(or any fan of any team who wins a title) cares about ratings as they watch their team hold up the trophy.

While Im pretty sure its not an absence felt by other teams, you dont think victory + 1 is that much more satisfying than victory?

If not I feel bad for you man, you might be rooting for the wrong team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

While Im pretty sure its not an absence felt by other teams, you dont think victory + 1 is that much more satisfying than victory?

huh? what's victory plus one? Considering we've NEVER had victory period, I ain't gonna quibble about how it comes and the bottom line is the most entertaining any sports can possibly be is being the winner at the end of the game. I mean, isn't that why everyone watches? To see their team win?

If not I feel bad for you man, you might be rooting for the wrong team.

huh? Why do you feel bad for me? Why am I rooting for the wrong team?

 

[playstation]

While Im pretty sure its not an absence felt by other teams, you dont think victory + 1 is that much more satisfying than victory?

If not I feel bad for you man, you might be rooting for the wrong team.

some folks need to chill themselves out...

this dude's using like non-euclidean geometry to prove his point. jeez...

 

[Cheesebeef]

some folks need to chill themselves out...

this dude's using like non-euclidean geometry to prove his point. jeez...

I'm just scratching my head at the whole "I feel sorry for you/rooting for the wrong team" thing... and the fact that he can rip on Horry for being cheap, but gives a guy who clotheslines, throws elbows, flops and kicks guys in the balls a pass... and I wouldn't have it any other way because every great team has at least one of those guys and I'm happy we've got one also.

 

[The Man In Black]

I thought I was eloquent but the term non-euclidean just knocked me down a few IQ points.

It's all about titles. All that other stuff, you cannot control. Perception, ratings, jersey sales...none of that can be controlled. How you play the game, how well you play as a team, and how strong you stick to what works best for you will put you in a position to win a title.

This could be the year of the Suns, you can bet the Spurs will have something to say about it. For now, the title goes through San Antonio.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I thought I was eloquent but the term non-euclidean just knocked me down a few IQ points.

It's all about titles. All that other stuff, you cannot control. Perception, ratings, jersey sales...none of that can be controlled. How you play the game, how well you play as a team, and how strong you stick to what works best for you will put you in a position to win a title.

This could be the year of the Suns, you can bet the Spurs will have something to say about it. For now, the title goes through San Antonio.

totally agree - I mean I'm pretty sure the 1999 Rams (The football equivalent of the Suns if they win it) fans felt no better than the 2001 Patriots (the football equivalent of the Spurs, or kind of anyway).