Kurt Warner - Sunday Conversation on ESPN

[IAWarnerFan]

How I feel about all this:

• 2 Years for $20-24M is a very fair offer
• Warner expecting his value to be $14-16M is asking for more than he's going to get
• Does Kurt Warner want to play for $ or play to win? It really sounds like the $ thing.
• We can throw in incentives that almost no one else can. If he wants to coach after he plays football, maybe somehow we can work that into the contract.
• I don't have a problem with him getting the $16M he wants, just as long as $4-6M of that is incentives and not cap hit.
• The 49ers have a lot to offer for sure, but I hope he realizes that he's starting to burn a bridge by doing this.
• I'm shocked the 49ers are doing this. It's not like they would have to go with Matt Leinart next year like we might have to. They actually have a quality starter already that just needs to work on his arm strength in Shaun Hill.
• The 49ers know what he's asking for and have still invited him in.
• Why haven't we signed Q yet?
• We're losing players, but what have we really gained?

 

[Jetstream Green]

In talking about Niner QB Hill finding more arm strength...
A QB getting more arm strength is like a WR becoming faster...that does not happen, at this point your arm is never likely to throw the ball any farther or harder than it does now for the most part and you do not get faster. Now it is possible for a QB to learn to be more accurate or a WR to become a little quicker in his movement.

 

[lauraw]

the vitriole[?] is at an all time high towards warner. now maybe we get him signed.

 

[zuchini]

11 million is what he's worth. 12 if says please.

By the way, Warner is coming up on sportscenter shortly.

 

[Feeble Mcjackson]

the whole past accomplishments thing irks me. I say put the kid in and spend that money in places where we really need help (both lines and cornerback)

 

[ajcardfan]

the whole past accomplishments thing irks me. I say put the kid in and spend that money in places where we really need help (both lines and cornerback)

The funny thing about this is a whole lot of people were saying we need help at QB the last time Leinart played very much.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

In talking about Niner QB Hill finding more arm strength...
A QB getting more arm strength is like a WR becoming faster...that does not happen, at this point your arm is never likely to throw the ball any farther or harder than it does now for the most part and you do not get faster. Now it is possible for a QB to learn to be more accurate or a WR to become a little quicker in his movement.

Not even through a vigorous weight lifting program?
His accuracy and decision making is actually pretty good, it's his arm strength.

 

[Russ Smith]

Did the interview run yet?

No Kurt's agent is asking for a 2 year commitment from ESPN and he wants double the usual Sunday conversation length.

 

[O]

No Kurt's agent is asking for a 2 year commitment from ESPN and he wants double the usual Sunday conversation length.

Well played.

 

[Assface]

No Kurt's agent is asking for a 2 year commitment from ESPN and he wants double the usual Sunday conversation length.

 

[Russ Smith]

Nooooo, not boring at all. This interview really, REALLY puts Kurt in the wrong. Tried to play this 'I have no idea why this isn't done yet...we thought it would be easy' card, and then says he can't figure out what his fair market value is. Really, Kurt? That means you DO have an idea why the deal isn't done yet...BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T LET IT.

He also clearly stated he is still looking for compensation for past years. CLEARLY. This can no longer be denied.

So, to sum up, he isn't sure what he's worth yet, but he still doesn't know why he hasn't been signed by the Cards yet, and he does want compensated for the past.

Yeah, you just killed your cause with me, Kurt. Sign a fair deal or leave or retire. Your schtick is getting old.

That's not fair Stout. Clearly you forgot the year Kurt fumbled away the rams game and got benched for the rookie Leinart.

How can people not remember that after that season Warner gave back 2/3 of his contract because he felt he hadn't earned it?

what, that didn't happen? So why in the world should he be compensated now for past performance if he wasn't willing to give up money himself when he didn't earn it?

Seriously I was so pumped about the way Warner played down the stretch this year I was quite happy to give the guy even 10 million because we were so dangerous with him. But I'm sick of this, if you're going to sign somewhere else do it, if not, get the damn contract done, you are not going to be compensated for the years you weren't a full time starter that's NOT how the NFL works.

 

[conraddobler]

If I weren't a loyal fan at this point I'd almost wish to see him sign then be injured by game 3 just to see the look on Graves face and observe the hasty exit rouge trader style of some posters on here.

That or turn into a fumble machine.

I firmly believe that if the Cardinals overpay for this guy they will pay a steep steep price for that stupidity.

You all can remember this post and ridicule me if I'm wrong, you will anyway but it's just my gut feeling that if we sign this guy at more than a fair amount, and the current offer is, then we will regret it greatly.

 

[moklerman]

How can people not remember that after that season Warner gave back 2/3 of his contract because he felt he hadn't earned it?

You mean the backup, incentive laden deal that he far outperformed to balance the scales?

Warner does not want to be paid extra, he wants to be paid in line with what he is producing.

 

[Russ Smith]

If I weren't a loyal fan at this point I'd almost wish to see him sign then be injured by game 3 just to see the look on Graves face and observe the hasty exit rouge trader style of some posters on here.

That or turn into a fumble machine.

I firmly believe that if the Cardinals overpay for this guy they will pay a steep steep price for that stupidity.

You all can remember this post and ridicule me if I'm wrong, you will anyway but it's just my gut feeling that if we sign this guy at more than a fair amount, and the current offer is, then we will regret it greatly.

I don't wish injury on anybody but I am just so tired of people who get thrown a lifeline like we did to Kurt a few years ago completely forgetting about it when their next contract comes up.

Last year Kurt complained all preseason that he wasn't getting a chance to compete for the job, right up until Whiz named him the starter making it perfectly clear that he WAS in fact competing for the job the whole time.

Kurt had a phenomenal year last year, we were one defensive stop away from winning a Super bowl. It was amazing, I still get goose bumps from that.

But now the players are all trying to jack up their salaries or leave for greener pastures and in the middle of all of it there's Warner refusing to take an exceptional offer because he's not sure what his market value is?

 

[conraddobler]

I don't wish injury on anybody but I am just so tired of people who get thrown a lifeline like we did to Kurt a few years ago completely forgetting about it when their next contract comes up.

Last year Kurt complained all preseason that he wasn't getting a chance to compete for the job, right up until Whiz named him the starter making it perfectly clear that he WAS in fact competing for the job the whole time.

Kurt had a phenomenal year last year, we were one defensive stop away from winning a Super bowl. It was amazing, I still get goose bumps from that.

But now the players are all trying to jack up their salaries or leave for greener pastures and in the middle of all of it there's Warner refusing to take an exceptional offer because he's not sure what his market value is?

Well it just means his money thing was very hypocritical.

The Cardinals made a fair offer, unfortuneately for him we're not our usual desperate selves.

I am pretty sure this reality will sink in soon and he'll be back, the fact I'd rather not have him back nearly assures it will be so.

IMO honestly, objectively, he's out of cards to play here, he's bluffing and if our FO can't tell that, they're hopeless.

I'd be inclined to call his bluff and if he retires they can live with that, if someone else goes stupid and overpays him they can live with that too, I'd draw a huge red line right where they have and just let it sort itself out.

In the end I'd also put a deadline on it just to be clear about the way I felt and to get the decision over with and if he missed it I'd move right on without losing a second of sleep over it.

That's what I'd do if I were them, me I'd have lowballed him to get rid of him but that's based on emotion and unrealistic too, their offer is more than fair.

 

[Russ Smith]

You mean the backup, incentive laden deal that he far outperformed to balance the scales?

Warner does not want to be paid extra, he wants to be paid in line with what he is producing.

Warner said on tv he's looking for a contract that will make up for being underpaid in past seasons.

Again, if he didn't offer to give back in down years, why should he get extra for the good years?

 

[moklerman]

Again, if he didn't offer to give back in down years, why should he get extra for the good years?

He didn't give back but he signed a lot smaller contract the next time around with less guaranteed money, performance incentives, etc.

If he's asking for money on top of whatever he thinks he's actually worth, that's just money for performing well in the past, then I'm with everyone else in saying he's wrong. His first four years as a Cardinal balanced out. I think he deserves a raise from last year though, in money and guarantees with incentives thrown on top. 20/10 doesn't fit that bill.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

The thing that has always bugged my about Warner is in the way he deals with adversity. When things are going great, he is all smiles, gives great interviews and talks about how much fun football is and how its such a huge part of his life.

When things go bad, he falls back on the "it's just a game" comments like when he fumbled away the Rams game back in 2006. If anyone remembers, after that game he gave some lame excuse about football "only being a game" and not the most important thing in the world. He pulled the same crap (contemplating immediate retirement) after the Jets game and everyone gave him a pass because he was worried about Boldin. I've always wondered if Kurt had thrown for 6 touchdowns instead of 6 turnovers and we had won 55-35 instead of the other way around, would he have been saying the same things.

I love the guy, but if he can't accept 10 million a year, let him go and lets move on to Leinart. It will hurt, but in the long run its probably best for the team anyway.

 

[Cody]

we really need to see if leinart is our guy of the future. lets go with him.

 

[moklerman]

lets go with him.

They already have...twice.

 

[Cody]

They already have...twice.

well he has had a lot more time to practice and work with the team since then..plus our team as a whole has developed since then as well.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Warner lost points in this ESPN interview, IMO.

He appears to be a confused man right now...and has been since the Pro Bowl.

First he was contemplating retirement.

Then he said if he was to continue paying it would only be with the Cardinals.

Then he said it would make his decision to play easier if the Cardinals took care of Q.

And even though Warner was supposedly mulling retirement, his agent was already declaring that Warner was certainly going to play and was already making contact with the Cardinals' FO.

On last week's Dan Patrick Show Warner claimed he would take less money for Q to be taken care of.

In this ESPN interview with Trey Wingo, Wingo said, "You've said you wanted to play for the Cardinals and they have said they want you back. What's the problem"

To which Warner said, "I have no idea. We thought it would be easier than this. We keep asking ourselves why hasn't this been done yet."

When reminded that the Cardinals have offered him $10-12M a year (Wingo's tone implied that the Cardinals' offer is a good one) and asked about his market value Warner said, "we are still trying to figure that out."

Warner's confusion, combined with Wingo's insinuations that the Cardinals have made a good offer, made Warner look a little foolish, IMO.

What makes Warner's situation a little more unusual, contract-wise, is that the contract will only be for two years, as Warner only intends to play for two more years. Thus, to want top 5 money, he's comparing his own numbers to those of franchise QBs who were signed to long-term deals. It's a little more feasible for teams to offer franchise QBs lucrative long-term deals, in that those teams have invested in them for the present and the future.

The Cardinals' investment in Warner is strictly in the present.

That does make a difference, IMO.

Warner needs to stop appeasing his agents (who clearly have their issues with Warner for being so candid about wanting to sign only with the Cardinals, and most likely for telling Wingo that they were still trying to figure out his market value)...and make the decision to work out the deal so that both Warner and the Cardinals feel satisfied with it.

If Warner actually goes through with his visit to SF...he had better be convinced he is better off signing with them because they will not want him to leave without a commitment and they certainly wouldn't want to feel like suckers for helping Warner feather his own nest in Arizona.

That about sums it up.

This is actually kind of funny. Its SOOOOO obvious that KW was being himself (honest and open) when this all first began and then his agent came up to him and said "Kurt - your costing us alot of money and taking away our leverege. Think of how much more you can donate with 4M more. Think about the respect they haven't shown you." In other words pushing Kurts buttons.

And thusly we have been brought to this point. Its like I can tell he doesn't want to be going through all this and his agent is pulling the strings like a puppet master. I almost feel bad for the guy because he is getting bad advice. Or advice motivated by greed.

Like you said - If he goes to SF he BETTER be ready to take that deal.

 

[moklerman]

well he has had a lot more time to practice and work with the team since then..plus our team as a whole has developed since then as well.

Since the last game of the '08 preseason? Actually, I guess it's "thrice" not "twice". Three shots at the starting job have netted: injured, injured, fail.

He may have the light come on but that's a pretty shaky basket to be puttin' all the eggs in.

 

[Stout]

Warner lost points in this ESPN interview, IMO.

He appears to be a confused man right now...and has been since the Pro Bowl.

First he was contemplating retirement.

Then he said if he was to continue paying it would only be with the Cardinals.

Then he said it would make his decision to play easier if the Cardinals took care of Q.

And even though Warner was supposedly mulling retirement, his agent was already declaring that Warner was certainly going to play and was already making contact with the Cardinals' FO.

On last week's Dan Patrick Show Warner claimed he would take less money for Q to be taken care of.

In this ESPN interview with Trey Wingo, Wingo said, "You've said you wanted to play for the Cardinals and they have said they want you back. What's the problem"

To which Warner said, "I have no idea. We thought it would be easier than this. We keep asking ourselves why hasn't this been done yet."

When reminded that the Cardinals have offered him $10-12M a year (Wingo's tone implied that the Cardinals' offer is a good one) and asked about his market value Warner said, "we are still trying to figure that out."

Warner's confusion, combined with Wingo's insinuations that the Cardinals have made a good offer, made Warner look a little foolish, IMO.

What makes Warner's situation a little more unusual, contract-wise, is that the contract will only be for two years, as Warner only intends to play for two more years. Thus, to want top 5 money, he's comparing his own numbers to those of franchise QBs who were signed to long-term deals. It's a little more feasible for teams to offer franchise QBs lucrative long-term deals, in that those teams have invested in them for the present and the future.

The Cardinals' investment in Warner is strictly in the present.

That does make a difference, IMO.

Warner needs to stop appeasing his agents (who clearly have their issues with Warner for being so candid about wanting to sign only with the Cardinals, and most likely for telling Wingo that they were still trying to figure out his market value)...and make the decision to work out the deal so that both Warner and the Cardinals feel satisfied with it.

If Warner actually goes through with his visit to SF...he had better be convinced he is better off signing with them because they will not want him to leave without a commitment and they certainly wouldn't want to feel like suckers for helping Warner feather his own nest in Arizona.

Very well put, Mitch. I nominate this for post of the 2009 FA period.

 

[Mitch]

Very well put, Mitch. I nominate this for post of the 2009 FA period.

Thanks Sout. Thank to your post too Arizona's Finest.