Kurt Warner talks about Matt Leinart's predicament

[82CardsGrad]

Put me down as having my doubts about the almighty Whis as well. The cupboard was ANYTHING but bare when Whis got here. He did a good job of preparing the meal but as Parcells would say he didn't buy the groceries so I really can't go too overboard in heaping praise on him as some others have and do. This year is the 1st season I believe that Whis has truly put his stamp on the team personel-wise after the departure of some very key players that he again was not responsible in bringing in. He's turned over the roster and won't be handcuffed by Leinart now that he has his very own hand picked QB under center.

To me Warner's play individually had more to do with the success of the past two seasons than anything Whis did. Yes it was his decision to play him and Whizzie deserves credit there but it's not like Warner had never been a pro-bowler, world champion, SB and multiple MVP before any of us knew who the hell Ken Whisenhunt was. I thought it was Whis' plan to bring a smashmouth, Pittsburgh-west style of football when he came here? What happened to that? Oh thats right he adjusted to the talent that was already in place. Kudos for making that adjustment. Well it's year 4 now and I'm still waiting waiting for that plan to come to fruition. In my eyes Whis would have proved his salt and gained more respect by coaching up and getting something, ANYTHING out of a guy that we invested a lot of money and a top 10 pick in.

Anyway for me it comes down to Whis making a bad decision with QB situation this year in choosing Anderson over Leinart. The manner in which the whole thing has been handled makes that bad decision much worse than it probably is in all reality. HOWEVER I do have to laugh when I hear/read a lot of the Whis knob-slobbing like the man is infalible and above ever being questioned as if he showed up on our sideline fresh from the womb of the virgin Mary.

D, really?? Whiz is merely riding the coat-tails of Denny Green and Kurt Warner?? Really dude?? That's just so wrong....

This franchise is entirely turned around and is now a legit NFL franchise. It took several people to help make that happen (Mike B., Kurt and Whiz). However, IMHO, Whiz is the most crucial of the three.
Sure, he inherited a team with some talent brought in by the previous coach... But, Whiz also made his own changes - primarily selecting Kurt over Matty. But he also brought in kids like Breaston (see ya BJ!), Calais Campbell, DRC, Hightower, Beanie... and this year his picks of Washington and Williams could turn out to be pretty special as well. Toler looks to be very shrewd pick. Ben Graham. We'll see about Kerry Rhodes and Faneca this year.
How do you think Dockett feels about Whiz? Or A-Dub?

Look, he isn't perfect. But I guess I just can't get on board with hammering the guy who has had the greatest impact on turning this ship away from the iceburg...

 

[82CardsGrad]

That is just hyperbole to make a point. Hence the use of the words like and as if.

The "In Whiz we trust" t-shirt line azsouth used was not hyperbole though. 82 really has one. He alternates it with his Max Hall jersey to home games.

Dude, that's harsh! Circle of trust man... circle of trust...

 

[82CardsGrad]

82CG...

I am upset with the way Whiz is handling this.

It's almost like the way he treated Edge at the end...holding onto him well past the draft---when everyone knew he was going to be released. Edge was deprived of entering free agency when the teams had the money and were shopping. That was awful...they screwed Edge.

It's not fair for the player...and Edge is a possible HOFer.

And everyone knows no team is going to trade for ML when they too know he's about to be released.

Would it be good for the team to keep ML as a backup?

He's totally demoralized...and he's been fed a hefty dose of humble pie...

I don't argue with the decision to go with the stronger arm and the young'uns.

What I argue is the lack of dignity the HC is showing in this process.

If he truly has affection for Matt then let him go so he can hook on with another team...and not have to walk around the Cardinals' complex like a lame duck.

Whiz really needs to clean up his m.o.

Maybe there's more truth to what Q's been saying about Whiz after all.

What if Whiz believes keeping Matty gives the kid his best chance to see the field, to be seen and to then negotiate a better contract next season as a FA? If he lets Matty walk, where will Matty play? How will he play in some new system with potentially inferior talent? Sticking with the Cards sets Matty up for the best possible deal he can get as a FA next season. No?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

HAHAHHAA Thats funny. Yeah you and well, maybe Matt's mom, are the only ones that feel Matt has this great untapped talent and only you can see it. Jesus. I suppose Gruden and Warner and every other player/coach who has chimed in on this issue, is just as blind

He has had 3.5 years to win this job. He has not done it. end of discussion

I didn't say it was untapped talent, I just said that Whisenhunt doesn't recognize it. Good or bad. 2.5 years to determine whether he can cut it or not is the problem. Waiting until the 3rd preseason game is the problem.

End of discussion.

 

[Russ Smith]

Thanks.

McCown's numbers come out at 17.41%, which would be the worst ever for a QB in his category, if he had had enough pass attempts to qualify in my original study.

The best of all time, by the way, was Bert Jones of the Baltimore Colts. He scores at 3.34%, which is helped some by his running a fair amount, but he wasn't at all extreme a running QB. 16 total fumbles in his career. That's a season for Kerry Collins.

Interesting. The rams had a QB Tony Banks a few years ago who had some epic fumble rate too.

I remember some great debates here about Josh where "haters" would say yes the line needs to protect him better but there's no rule that says he has to fumble every time he gets hit.

With Josh it was just bad mechanics, he held the ball in one hand without protecting it very well so when he got hit he fumbled. Kurt used to do that a fair amount too.

 

[MrYeahBut]

82, I was wondering... Since you always refer to Matt as Matty and I just know its a term of endearment, would it be ok if I called you 82CardsGrady...?

 

[40yearfan]

Everybody believes what they wish to, but the REAL truth is, there aint a single MF'er on here that knows the whole story. I know it takes all the fun out the board to use logic and such, but really. This whole scene has been created and perpetuated by fans and the media.

Maybe Matt's good, maybe he's garbage. We will never know because the man that come in here and in 3 years has been a leading figure in taking this team from perennial laughing stock to a super bowl appearance and a perennial playoff contender doesnt want him.

I dont give a crap how he handled it. I care about final scores on Sunday. period. Its not Go Boldin, Go Whiz, Go Matty, or Go Larry. Its GO CARDS.

AMEN!!! Any time you root for one player instead of the team as a whole, you are courting disaster. You can have your favorites, but don't get stuck on thinking the team can't do without them. On a good team, the absence of one player only means the others have to step up their game. This team is capable of doing that now because there are good players and good backups in most of the positions.

If Matt stays, I will root for him as hard as I can. If he goes, good luck to him and hello new QB. Team first. Always.

 

[40yearfan]

Yeah, I see the change in the numbers. I just don't agree about what it means.

The thing is, most QB fumbles take place on sacks. Small number of plays overall, but a big impact. When you use attempts in your divisor, it blunts the impact of those sacks so much that you actually lose meaning. If I look at a QB, and I see that he had 35 TDs one year, 10 the next, and 31 the next, do I think he had a terrible season in the middle year? No, I figure he probably got hurt. In the same way, if I see a QB go from 6 fumbles to 12 to 5, rather than figuring he forgot how to hang onto the football in the middle season, I figure he probably was getting sacked more. (Though with numbers that small, small sample size is maybe an even more likely culprit.)

Warner goes from 3.6 to 2.2 to 5.1 to 2.4 to 1.7 to 1.9 in your calculations. You say it's the gloves. I say it's that his sack rate went from 12.3 to 5.8 to 7.7 to 4.2 to 4.2 to 4.5. If most QB fumbles occur on sacks, it just makes sense that any flux in how often a guy is sacked is going to have a big impact in how much he puts the ball on the ground.

When you include attempts in your equation, you won't see that impact.

Spielman, you are truly amazing. Remind me to take you to the race track sometime.

 

[40yearfan]

KC
And with the clock winding down, Leinart drove the Cardinals into field-goal range. But Neil Rackers missed a 51-yard kick that would have tied it with 2 seconds to play.

CHI
But Rackers, a Pro Bowl kicker last season who connected from 41, 28 and 29 yards earlier in the evening, missed a 41-yarder to the left with 53 seconds left for what would have been the game winner for Arizona (1-5).

I guess Green can be blamed for bringing in Rackers and doing it to himself but he had this team in a pretty good spot to make a run at winning seasons. With just those two games the Cardinals would have been 7-9 in '06. Would that have given Green another year? Would the team have been playing differently had they won and gained confidence? Not to mention seeing their coach lose his mind at the podium and become an instant lame duck.

Green may have lost his mind but he had the team in good shape and with better QB play from Warner and better kicking from Rackers he wouldn't have looked like such an underachiever.

Green is a great judge of football talent, but a horrible head coach. Why do you think he isn't coaching anywhere now? Green helped turn the talent around on this team and I'll always be greatful to him for that. Other than that, he is gone and this team is finally successful.

 

[conraddobler]

AMEN!!! Any time you root for one player instead of the team as a whole, you are courting disaster. You can have your favorites, but don't get stuck on thinking the team can't do without them. On a good team, the absence of one player only means the others have to step up their game. This team is capable of doing that now because there are good players and good backups in most of the positions.

If Matt stays, I will root for him as hard as I can. If he goes, good luck to him and hello new QB. Team first. Always.

The team would of best been served by trading or getting rid of Matt prior to now, that is if they're going another direction anyhow, which seems like to me was always the case in terms of Whiz at least.

So stick to your own philosophy

 

[40yearfan]

Probably right, like I said, just pure speculation.

I just cant believe, and dont believe , that this decision was based on this preseason. Why Whiz or the FO decided till now to make a move is a little mind boggling to me.

Maybe they felt they owed it to Leinart to give him one last chance?

 

[40yearfan]

The team would of best been served by trading or getting rid of Matt prior to now, that is if they're going another direction anyhow, which seems like to me was always the case in terms of Whiz at least.

So stick to your own philosophy

Huh? I didn't think I was defending or defiling any one person in that post.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Maybe they felt they owed it to Leinart to give him one last chance?

I have a hard time swallowing this. After giving him 40 million dollars, they STILL owed it to Matt to hold up an entire season to see if he could finally get his **** together?

Man, I don't think so. I think what we've probably seen here is our first real power struggle between FO and Coach. FO probably wanted a go with Matt and Wiz didn't and thus this was the only way Wiz saw to get rid of the problem, especially with the clout he's built after the last couple seasons.

 

[john h]

This thing has turned into a charade and clearly CKW is to blame.

First of all, you demote ML to 2nd string and open up credence to all the nation-wide speculation...

And then CKW actually thinks another NFL team is going to trade for Leinart and pay him $2.56M this year, to be a controversial, much scritinized backup???...and, on top of it---have to deal with the ridiculous salary hike in 2011?

Get real.

Compounding matters is that ML has insisted he wants to go to a team where he can start.

As in the words of the ESPN NFL crew, "C'mon man??!"

Do you think another team wants to take on this media frenzy and have to pay $2.56M for it?

Then there's Whiz's preposterous "coach-speak."

Examples:

"Matt Leinart can play in the league."

Oh yeah?

You've had him for 3 1/2 years and in 3 1/2 weeks Derek Anderson beats him out? And it's not like Anderson has exactly lit the world on fire doing it.

More CKW:

"It's what kind of an impact a QB has on his teammates and how he can command the offense and the respect of his teammates in the huddle...BUT, I am not talking about Matt..."

Oh yeah? Who could you be talking about?

And why is he on the trade block the next day?

And then when all teams like the Bills, Giants and Raiders are adamantly denying any interest in ML...you act like nothing's changed and you're still going to run ML out there in the next pre-season game...when everyone---especially the players---know he's a lame duck?

Here's the thing with Whiz...he did this two years ago...he was pissed that ESPN reported that Warner would be the week 1 starter, and Whiz denied it and waited until the Tuesday of Week 1 to finally announce Warner as the starter.

And this move nearly cost the Cardinals that win in week 1 ON THE ROAD versus the 49ers...Warner did not play well, the offense was not quite in sync and the Cardinals eked out the win versus what was then a very suspect 49ers team...but barely.

These types of distractions are detrimental to a team, especially for a team that needs to focus on Week 1...and a Rams team ON THE ROAD that---if you saw them beat the Patriots a week ago at Gilette Stadium in a game where Sam Bradford looked sensational---is looking much improved and very hungry to make a move.

The worst part is that CKW is toying irresponsibly with the affections of so many fans in Arizona, like we have here at ASFN---who have put their hearts and souls into ML being the QBOF---and making these poor fans die a slow and unnecessarily painful death.

To tease these fans one more time is unconscionable.

Sure Whiz...you're holding onto ML now. In fact, just to prove the Bills, Giants and Raiders wrong, you are going to prove he's still in the plans.

What a desperate ploy.

Very sad all the way around.

And then the last bit of "coach-speak" from CKW..."no, it's not personal. I have a strong affection for Matt."

Wow. Affection? How much humble pie are going to cram down his throat?

If Matt Leinart can play in this league then he will. If he does not have what it takes he want. No matter who, where, or what if he is good enough he will get the chance. Not to be a starter but perhaps to be a backup. We give crooks, drug addicts, and all sorts chances to play. It is up to Matt to backup his talk. If other teams do not want him then he may end up where his nickname starts "Hollywood". Matt sure stared off his career in a very poor way with all his Hollywood pool parties. I suspect his teammates were not overly impressed with him and all the attention he got outside of football. As a rookie millionaire with unlimited potential he made some bad decisions at the start of his career. Sort of the start of it all.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I have a hard time swallowing this. After giving him 40 million dollars, they STILL owed it to Matt to hold up an entire season to see if he could finally get his **** together?

Man, I don't think so. I think what we've probably seen here is our first real power struggle between FO and Coach. FO probably wanted a go with Matt and Wiz didn't and thus this was the only way Wiz saw to get rid of the problem, especially with the clout he's built after the last couple seasons.

This

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I didn't say it was untapped talent, I just said that Whisenhunt doesn't recognize it. Good or bad. 2.5 years to determine whether he can cut it or not is the problem. Waiting until the 3rd preseason game is the problem.

End of discussion.

No one recognizes it b/c it doest exist. a ghost, an abiration, call it what you will.

end of discussion

 

[AzStevenCal]

I didn't say it was untapped talent, I just said that Whisenhunt doesn't recognize it. Good or bad. 2.5 years to determine whether he can cut it or not is the problem. Waiting until the 3rd preseason game is the problem.

You're right, they make magic 8 balls and ouija boards for this very reason. No need to actually put someone to the test. Matt had worked hard to try and overcome his weaknesses and coach felt obliged to see if his effort paid off. Between practice and two preseason games it became obvious to Whiz that he just couldn't cut it. At least, that's the way I choose to look at the situation. It may not be correct but I think it's at least as valid as the "he hates him and should have dumped him long ago" theory.

Steve

 

[Duckjake]

AMEN!!! Any time you root for one player instead of the team as a whole, you are courting disaster. You can have your favorites, but don't get stuck on thinking the team can't do without them. On a good team, the absence of one player only means the others have to step up their game. This team is capable of doing that now because there are good players and good backups in most of the positions.

If Matt stays, I will root for him as hard as I can. If he goes, good luck to him and hello new QB. Team first. Always.

Try that logic on a Colts fan if Peyton Manning were to go out for the season. Sorry 40 but for most teams the #1 QB is the season. For teams with a mediocre at best QB where there is not much difference between #1 and #2 not so much. Just look at what happened to the Cardinals when Charley Johnson and Neil Lomax got hurt.

There is also a difference in simply being a fan of a particular player and believing that the player is an important part of the team. So being concerned that a certain guy is gone is something that can be done while still believing in Team First.