Kyrie

[NashDishesDimes]

All we are saying is that Bledsoes not a bad chip to have, i like him a lot, but if you could swap him for a younger version with more potential and cheaper, why wouldnt you?

 

[SirStefan32]

All we are saying is that Bledsoes not a bad chip to have, i like him a lot, but if you could swap him for a younger version with more potential and cheaper, why wouldnt you?

But that's not the argument you presented. You said that he was old and "didn't fit the timeline." I call BS on that. If you want to argue Frank is a better player, then by all means, have at it. Just don't hide behind the "he doesn't fit the timeline" crap.

 

[Mainstreet]

But that's not the argument you presented. You said that he was old and "didn't fit the timeline." I call BS on that. If you want to argue Frank is a better player, then by all means, have at it. Just don't hide behind the "he doesn't fit the timeline" crap.

I do not worry about the timeline with Bledsoe either.

IMO, the two primary things that are disguised as the timeline issue are his susceptibility to future injury and the expectation Bledsoe would cost the Suns an exorbitant salary after his contract expires.

I think the latter issue has mostly been answered with the glut of talented PGs in the NBA and the reality of the new salary cap. Teams are not going to overspend on a PG nearing 30 when his contract expires. They are going to be saving their big dollars for the building blocks of their team.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

But that's not the argument you presented. You said that he was old and "didn't fit the timeline." I call BS on that. If you want to argue Frank is a better player, then by all means, have at it. Just don't hide behind the "he doesn't fit the timeline" crap.

Seems like a touchy subject for ya. He doesnt fit the timeline, that doesnt mean he cant work but its not ideal. Suns reaistically will not compete at the very top of the West earlier than 3 years. That is enough time to develop a young PG who will then be getting better, not worse at that time.

 

[SirStefan32]

I do not worry about the timeline with Bledsoe either.

IMO, the two primary things that are disguised as the timeline issue are his susceptibility to future injury and the expectation Bledsoe would cost the Suns an exorbitant salary after his contract expires.

I think the latter issue has mostly been answered with the glut of talented PGs in the NBA and the reality of the new salary cap. Teams are not going to overspend on a PG nearing 30 when his contract expires. They are going to be saving their big dollars for the building blocks of their team.

Completely agree on all counts, but especially on your second paragraph. Those are valid concerns. I would like to replace Bledsoe due to injury concerns, and in hopes of finding a distributing PG.

Seems like a touchy subject for ya. He doesnt fit the timeline, that doesnt mean he cant work but its not ideal. Suns reaistically will not compete at the very top of the West earlier than 3 years. That is enough time to develop a young PG who will then be getting better, not worse at that time.

It's not a "touchy" subject. My issue is with the complete lack of logic and reason that goes into the "argument." In this thread alone, two people have made excellent points regarding why it may be a good idea to possibly trade Bledsoe.
"He is old and doesn't fit the timeline" is the laziest and the least logical attempt at making an argument. This fantasy about a team full of 25-28 year old players is one of the most irrational things I have read on this board.

 

[Town Drunk]

Cavaliers have named their price for Kyrie Irving.

Per Vardon, the Cavaliers want a veteran starter, a blue chipper on a rookie contract and a first-round pick for the superstar PG. Vardon adds that the Cavs are "working diligently to make Irving happy" and that they intend to grant his trade request. One possible destination is Phoenix with the Suns offering Eric Bledsoe and a 2018 first-round pick (via Miami), but they are not willing to include Josh Jackson which is a major roadblock for this potential trade.


Source: Cleveland.com
Jul 30 - 9:16 AM

 

[GatorAZ]

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Yeah, Jones told Sarver there's a snowball's chance in hell he re-signs here.

 

[elindholm]

On the one hand, it's embarrassing that the rest of the league keeps thinking that they can play the Suns for fools in a trade, because the organization's reputation has invited those fantasies.

On the other hand, it's good that the Suns are holding their ground and not being suckered into what other teams expect them to do.

 

[3rdside]

I'm a Tottenham hot spur fan in premier league football and Daniel Levy, the chairman and deal maker, has worked wonders with his shrewd deal making which is largely responsible for our current team success. Not saying there's an ability comparison between him and McD yet, but the 'best contracts at every position' article, where both Morris brothers, Bledsoe and IT* are there is, to me, a very, very good indicator of McD's ability.

So no way he's a Cleveland patsy over kyrie.

(*isn't there but should be)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NashDishesDimes]

It's not a "touchy" subject. My issue is with the complete lack of logic and reason that goes into the "argument." In this thread alone, two people have made excellent points regarding why it may be a good idea to possibly trade Bledsoe.
"He is old and doesn't fit the timeline" is the laziest and the least logical attempt at making an argument. This fantasy about a team full of 25-28 year old players is one of the most irrational things I have read on this board.[/QUOTE]

Dude all we are saying is if you can have a guy that is younger to grow with the other players instead of Bledsoe, why wouldnt you? That is the only point to be made here. I dont see where the lack of logic is.

And yes the way you build a team is right when those 25 year olds are making noise, you flip the draft picks and cap space for another allstar/vet at that point, when the time is right.

Again, Bledsoe not a problem but id rather have a young guy with some potential that can grow with the team. Thats the arguement.

 

[Folster]

A couple days to watch next week are Wednesday, August 2 and Saturday, August 5. They mark 30 days under contract for Jackson and Reed respectively when both are eligible to be traded as I understand the rule.

 

[Covert Rain]

On the one hand, it's embarrassing that the rest of the league keeps thinking that they can play the Suns for fools in a trade, because the organization's reputation has invited those fantasies.

On the other hand, it's good that the Suns are holding their ground and not being suckered into what other teams expect them to do.

That's Sarver's legacy. However, I say if we can get him from the Cavs? Crap find a way to make this happen.

 

[Hoop Head]

A couple days to watch next week are Wednesday, August 2 and Saturday, August 5. They mark 30 days under contract for Jackson and Reed respectively when both are eligible to be traded as I understand the rule.

I'd be really disappointed if Jackson is traded, especially for Kyrie. However early August will open up more players to make a deal. It's said that Cleveland wants a quality starter, a promising young player who is still on their rookie deal, and a 1st rounder. That's a reasonable amount to open discussions but I'd be surprised if they get that.

https://cavsnation.com/cavs-requesting-trade-kyrie-irving/

 

[Hoop Head]

Here is another Kyrie trade rumor involving the Suns. I'm not sold on it, Love would be a decent addition but I don't see us competing so why bother bringing Love in. Also why would Cleveland move Love when they could probably get this deal done other ways. I would rather move Love but that would take getting a 4th team involved which would make things way more complicated. We could flip him later for assets. I think we'd have to wait 30 days, so he could be moved before teams start training camp.

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Cavs get: Bledsoe & Carmelo
Knicks get: Irving & Chandler
Suns get: Ntilikina & Love

Here's an article that talks about it more...

http://www.12up.com/posts/5322987-a...hould-terrify-both-teams-involved?a_aid=41147

 

[Hoop Head]

Things in Cleveland may have gotten worse with a video of Steph Curry mocking Lebron hitting the net but what's interesting about it is that Kyrie is in the video and is laughing at Steph's Lebron impression. That took place at Harrison Barnes wedding, where Steph and Kyrie were both in attendance.

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Article on the situation...

https://clutchpoints.com/stephen-cu...s-challenge-kyrie-irving-laughs-hysterically/

 

[SirStefan32]

Here is another Kyrie trade rumor involving the Suns. I'm not sold on it, Love would be a decent addition but I don't see us competing so why bother bringing Love in. Also why would Cleveland move Love when they could probably get this deal done other ways. I would rather move Love but that would take getting a 4th team involved which would make things way more complicated. We could flip him later for assets. I think we'd have to wait 30 days, so he could be moved before teams start training camp.

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Cavs get: Bledsoe & Carmelo
Knicks get: Irving & Chandler
Suns get: Ntilikina & Love

Here's an article that talks about it more...

http://www.12up.com/posts/5322987-a...hould-terrify-both-teams-involved?a_aid=41147

I can't figure out what the Suns would do with K-Love. Play him at 5? I also can't figure out what people see in Frank. Maybe I am the one who doesn't see something that's obvious, I suppose.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That is the trade I have seen as well except Warren goes out as well

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That is the trade I have seen as well except Warren goes out as well

Bledsoe
Chandler
Warren

For

Love
Nklintinka

I vote no unless we can turn love into someone else.

 

[elindholm]

Bledsoe
Chandler
Warren

For

Love
Nklintinka

I vote no unless we can turn love into someone else.

Yeah, that's pretty bad for the Suns. I'd be very surprised if it happened.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[NashDishesDimes]

Bledsoe
Chandler
Warren

For

Love
Nklintinka

I vote no unless we can turn love into someone else.

To me this is highway robery in the Suns favor.

Put it this way, do this trade the upside is Klove goes back to Minny form averaging 26 and 15, and Ntikila turns into a star PG and is very young. In this scenario the roster is STACKED.

The upside of keeping tyson, bled, and warren is Tyson tutors some guys and retires. Bledsoe plays as well as he has for 5 more years without getting injured. TJ turns into a third scoring option on a good team.

Highway robbery for Suns.

 

[Phrazbit]

To me this is highway robery in the Suns favor.

Put it this way, do this trade the upside is Klove goes back to Minny form averaging 26 and 15, and Ntikila turns into a star PG and is very young. In this scenario the roster is STACKED.

The upside of keeping tyson, bled, and warren is Tyson tutors some guys and retires. Bledsoe plays as well as he has for 5 more years without getting injured. TJ turns into a third scoring option on a good team.

Highway robbery for Suns.

That is a scenario... what I view as more likely is that the Suns end up with a roster with no PG capable of starting and a lineup incapable of defending anyone. IMO it is more likely that letting the current roster grow over the next couple years will yield better returns than trading for an empty stat player like Love and a dude that IMO will never be a starting caliber player in Ntikila.

 

[Hoop Head]

To me this is highway robery in the Suns favor.

Put it this way, do this trade the upside is Klove goes back to Minny form averaging 26 and 15, and Ntikila turns into a star PG and is very young. In this scenario the roster is STACKED.

The upside of keeping tyson, bled, and warren is Tyson tutors some guys and retires. Bledsoe plays as well as he has for 5 more years without getting injured. TJ turns into a third scoring option on a good team.

Highway robbery for Suns.

I wouldn't go as far as calling it highway robbery but I think the Suns clearly win the trade if Warren isn't involved, and still get the best haul if Warren is included by not by as much. We have Jackson now so Warren is somewhat expendable. He'll be a RFA next offseason and I'm not sure what it'll cost to retain him, hopefully he doesn't get a max offer like Otto Porter. Depending on how well Jackson plays this year, Warren could be completely expendable. You don't overpay for your 6th man, which is what Warren would be. He looked really good early last year but never got back to that level of play after that head injury. Who knows if he'll return as the player who started last season or the one that we had after that injury but with Jackson here, it may cost too much to keep Warren. You only overpay for your 6th man if you're a team like Golden State, that uses their's for 30 minutes a night and plays more than their Centers.

Love doesn't fit as well as he would have 2-3 years ago but he's still a top 5 PF in the league and 28 years old. He has 3 years left on his contract at $22, $24, and $25 million a year, which isn't that bad considering the deal someone like Blake Griffin just signed. He could be a quality veteran for our young players. He has championship experience and doesn't have the ego that a lot of NBA stars do. He's accepted the reduced role in Cleveland being their 3rd option and also having his name floated around in any and all trade rumors regarding Cleveland but he still hasn't caused any commotion and contributed well on the court. He's still an All-Star PF who can play in the post or on the perimeter and get 20 & 10 nightly.

By the time he starts declining it should be time for our youngsters to step up. We would have a slight logjam at PF but since the NBA is trending away from traditional Centers I don't see that as a problem. A lot of teams interchange their PF's & C's, both Love and Chriss played Center last year for their teams last year so it's not entirely new to them. Bender has shown he's versatile enough to play SF, PF, or C. They used him all over the place during Summer League and that's what Watson said he planned to do this year. I'm not entirely sold on Chriss either, he's shown some flashes but not enough to turn down the chance at bringing in a legit All Star PF. Bring him off the bench or play them together.

 

[Errntknght]

That is a scenario... what I view as more likely is that the Suns end up with a roster with no PG capable of starting and a lineup incapable of defending anyone. IMO it is more likely that letting the current roster grow over the next couple years will yield better returns than trading for an empty stat player like Love and a dude that IMO will never be a starting caliber player in Ntikila.

I disagree to considerable extent. In Ulis we have not only a capable starting PG but one that should start ahead of Bledsoe. If Watson starts Bled, no one will question the move but if he starts Ulis, some people will question that - hence Watson will go with Eric. We will have the same crappy offense as last year. Ulis would run the offense much better like he did last year but he'll have much less overall impact if he's on the second unit. Depending on how Watson configures the two lineups, the second unit may be better than the starting unit. If say the second unit is Ulis, Reed, Jackson, Bender/Peters and Williams.

I also think it's possible that shedding Chandler improves Len's play - before we got Chandler, Len had a positive impact on the team, and he's regressed since Tyson came. Yeah that means Len has a delicate psyche but if has it him to play well, I'd like to give him every chance. I haven't noticed Chandler doing much effective tutoring so far, but he does stabilize the defense despite not protecting the rim as in days of yore.

I agree that Ntilikina ia not a great prospect though I do like his defensive intensity and he might be a good backup wing after a couple of years. A PG is a long shot because he's not that quick. He moves fast enough after a few strides and he has nice long strides. I do think he'll be capable of handling the ball on the break, and that's a plus.

 

[Hoop Head]

I disagree to considerable extent. In Ulis we have not only a capable starting PG but one that should start ahead of Bledsoe. If Watson starts Bled, no one will question the move but if he starts Ulis, some people will question that - hence Watson will go with Eric. We will have the same crappy offense as last year. Ulis would run the offense much better like he did last year but he'll have much less overall impact if he's on the second unit. Depending on how Watson configures the two lineups, the second unit may be better than the starting unit. If say the second unit is Ulis, Reed, Jackson, Bender/Peters and Williams.

I like Ulis a lot but I don't think he's shown enough to supplant Bledsoe as the starter. I do think he should be getting 25 minutes a night running the PG spot though and some of those minutes would be with Bledsoe playing SG, if he's not traded in the offseason. Ulis may prove he is truly effective as a PG this year that deserves a chance to start but he didn't show enough last year to warrant benching Bledsoe. The Suns went 2-13 with him as their starting PG. Yes, the team was tanking but they weren't deliberately throwing games, they just sat Bledsoe, Chandler, and Knight while giving more minutes to our young players.


Here are Ulis' stats as a starter though down the stretch, they look good and promising for a rookie, who was a 2nd draft pick at that.

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