Lack of Draft Pick Signings Theory

[Walter Mitchell]

The past couple of years the Cardinals have signed their draft picks in reverse order....from 7th to 1st...and found that it limited them under the rookie signing pool when it came time to sign the 1st and 2nd rounders.

This year, they would like to sign the first three draft picks first and then get creative with the 4th-7th picks. That's why we haven't seen any signings at all, to date.

 

[Bobcat]

The past couple of years the Cardinals have signed their draft picks in reverse order....from 7th to 1st...and found that it limited them under the rookie signing pool when it came time to sign the 1st and 2nd rounders.

This year, they would like to sign the first three draft picks first and then get creative with the 4th-7th picks. That's why we haven't seen any signings at all, to date.

Yes this could be the case, well let us hope so.

Allan

 

[kerouac9]

The past couple of years the Cardinals have signed their draft picks in reverse order....from 7th to 1st...and found that it limited them under the rookie signing pool when it came time to sign the 1st and 2nd rounders.

This year, they would like to sign the first three draft picks first and then get creative with the 4th-7th picks. That's why we haven't seen any signings at all, to date.

Again, this doesn't make sense. You don't mind deferring bonus money for high-round picks, which means that you have more flexibility under the rookie pool. With second-day players, you have a five-figure bonus and rookie minimum deals. Always. What's to be creative about?

The only thing that I can see is that the new regime might want four- or five-year contracts for all picks, not just first- and second-rounders. That has been a hold-up of late for many teams.

 

[JeffGollin]

Wishful Thinking

Maybe John, Rod and Rodd are secretly wrapping up all our deals and the Cards plan to make one single blockbuster announcement this week that all our picks are signed.

Nahhhh!

 

[kerouac9]

Maybe John, Rod and Rodd are secretly wrapping up all our deals and the Cards plan to make one single blockbuster announcement this week that all our picks are signed.

Nahhhh!

Indeed. That thought has crossed my mind more than once. It's possible, but I wonder if all Idzik's deals are mostly done, and they'll announce all of them on Friday, and Rod will finish up with Fitz sometime mid-week after camp starts.

 

[AZCB34]

Maybe John, Rod and Rodd are secretly wrapping up all our deals and the Cards plan to make one single blockbuster announcement this week that all our picks are signed.

Nahhhh!

Not sure I see the benefit in making one huge announcement since if they make a series of them it shows progress being made. As it stands right now, the Cards may have zero picks in camp on time. If deals are done, get them announced and make yourselves look good...like you are making some progress.

I would rather know picks are signed and realize Fitz is going to be late than to wonder if the Cards damn 7th rounder will be late.

 

[ajcardfan]

Is there anything in sports more overblown by fans, in all sports, than NFL rookies signing their contracts? I don't think so.

 

[Russ Smith]

Is there anything in sports more overblown by fans, in all sports, than NFL rookies signing their contracts? I don't think so.

True.

Personally my concern is that Dansby's agent is the real culprit here, that he may be asking for more than his slot and the Cards are concerned if they slot everyone else, they won't be able to sign Dansby?

Just a theory based on a hard week of "research" while fishing in Loreto. Fishing sucked, very few Dorado around, caught a sailfish again but had to resort to trolling live mackerel to get that. when I get pictures from my dad I may change my avatar to a shot of a needlefish with its mouth open, depends how the picture looks.

Really hoped I'd be coming back to some signings.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

True.

Personally my concern is that Dansby's agent is the real culprit here, that he may be asking for more than his slot and the Cards are concerned if they slot everyone else, they won't be able to sign Dansby?

Aside from getting everybody at camp in time, this is the best case scenario. We can deal without Dansby, but we need Dockett and Fitz at camp.

 

[ajcardfan]

Dansby can holdout until next year's draft and the Cardinals will never give him more than his slot.

 

[Russ Smith]

Dansby can holdout until next year's draft and the Cardinals will never give him more than his slot.

Not only that, if he tries it and isn't careful, he may get "Johnny McWilliams"
treatment. Remember he asked for more than his slot and wound up getting less when we gave more to Rice to sign him?

I'm strictly guessing but given his agent is a Poston and Poston has said publicly that Dansby should have been a first rounder, I have a sneaky suspicion he's asking for first round money. I'd gladly be proven wrong and have him sign today though.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm strictly guessing but given his agent is a Poston and Poston has said publicly that Dansby should have been a first rounder, I have a sneaky suspicion he's asking for first round money. I'd gladly be proven wrong and have him sign today though.

I don't think this is true. What'd Steinbach get last year?

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't think this is true. What'd Steinbach get last year?

His slot I think.

I forget where I read it but Poston came out and said Dansby was first round talent and should have been a first rounder. HOpefully he's saying the Cards got themselves a steal, and not we're not going to take 2nd round money, but given his reputation I'm guessing Poston is delaying our other signings.

 

[lrk27]

Poston's reputation is based on his veteran contract negotiations, not rookies. They know that rookies are slotted and they can't really manipulate that. The reputation is from holding out veterans and demanding renegotiations. Very few of the Poston rookies are holdouts. If Dansby's not in on time, don't put all of the blame on Poston.

 

[kerouac9]

His slot I think.

I forget where I read it but Poston came out and said Dansby was first round talent and should have been a first rounder. HOpefully he's saying the Cards got themselves a steal, and not we're not going to take 2nd round money, but given his reputation I'm guessing Poston is delaying our other signings.

He won't hold out. He was a first-round talent. Most top-five second-rounders are. There might be a little more negotiation involved as the #1 pick in the second round, but I don't think he'll hold out any longer than the first week of camp (after which I personally reach for the panic button), if at all.

Postons are bad when the FA contract comes up. There's no worries about rookies. The challenge remains: name the last Poston rookie to hold out significantly in training camp. I don't think it happens.

I don't subscribe to KFFL, but if someone wants to post what the deal was with Steinbach's deal (#1 in second round with Cincy in 2003), it might help shed some light on what we're looking at with Dansby.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Poston's reputation is based on his veteran contract negotiations, not rookies. They know that rookies are slotted and they can't really manipulate that. The reputation is from holding out veterans and demanding renegotiations. Very few of the Poston rookies are holdouts. If Dansby's not in on time, don't put all of the blame on Poston.

Marla Ridenour of the Akron Beacon Journal reports that Poston is asking that Kellen Winslow be treated better than the spot he was picked.

 

[Skkorpion]

Dansby (Poston) by himself is not a big deal. It's the seven draft picks unsigned with only six days until camp opens - that's the problem.

 

[lrk27]

Marla Ridenour of the Akron Beacon Journal reports that Poston is asking that Kellen Winslow be treated better than the spot he was picked.

I am aware that Poston has hinted at trying to get more than his slot for Winslow, but Winslow has repeatedly said that he wants #6 money, no more, no less. I think Poston will try to squeeze more for Winslow, but I don't think it will wind up happening. I think trying to get more money than the pick is slotted for is the exception, not the rule, for every agent. I wouldn't worry that Poston may hold up Dansby's deal.

 

[kerouac9]

Steinbach's deal, per ESPN.com:

2. OG Eric Steinbach, Iowa (No. 33 overall): Signing bonus: $1,760,000. Base salaries: $225,000 (2003); $305,000 (2004); $380,000 (2005); $460,000 (2006, plus $60,000 roster bonus and includes escalator). Total: four years, $3,190,000. Cap charge: $665,000.

Just above him was Tyler Brayton, who went to the Raiders:

1b. DE Tyler Brayton, Colorado (No. 32 overall): Signing bonus: $3,150,000. Base salaries: $360,000 (2003, plus $10,000 roster bonus); $450,000 (2004, plus $10,000 workout bonus); $540,000 (2005, plus $10,000 workout bonus); $630,000 (2006, plus $10,000 workout bonus); $720,000 (2007, plus $10,000 workout bonus); $810,000 (2008, plus $10,000 workout bonus, voidable). Total: six years, $6,720,000 or, if voided, five years, $5,900,000. Cap charge: $922,500.

New England hasn't yet signed Ben Watson (#32 overall), which is probably a hold-up in getting Dansby's contract done. Chris Snee (#34 overall, NY Giants) hasn't been signed either. Don't look for a lot of movement until at least one of these guys is signed, but I'm guessing that we'll get Dansby in for about four years, $3.5 million, with a $1.85 million signing bonus.

 

[NickelBack]

Is there anything in sports more overblown by fans, in all sports, than NFL rookies signing their contracts? I don't think so.

Again, I agree with this assesment.

 

[AZCB34]

Dansby (Poston) by himself is not a big deal. It's the seven draft picks unsigned with only six days until camp opens - that's the problem.

This is all I am trying to say as well. If it was Fitz...or even adding Dansby in it wouldn;t bother me too much just yet but when the ENTIRE draft class is unsigned then I think it is time to start fretting a little bit, regardless of aj's somewhat indifferent attitude to having these players in camp on time and actually learning their jobs.

 

[lrk27]

Is there anything in sports more overblown by fans, in all sports, than NFL rookies signing their contracts? I don't think so.

Is there any one event in sports that can change your teams future like the NFL draft?

Signing your rookies on time can mold their entire NFL future. Not getting in on time can severly impact you future, and the details of the contract can severly impact the teams future. In an era of salary cap, the rookies you bring in and spend a lot of money on are the future of your team. I don't know how that can be overblown.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is all I am trying to say as well. If it was Fitz...or even adding Dansby in it wouldn;t bother me too much just yet but when the ENTIRE draft class is unsigned then I think it is time to start fretting a little bit, regardless of aj's somewhat indifferent attitude to having these players in camp on time and actually learning their jobs.

I suspect that like me, AJ thinks many of these guys are essentially done, but waiting on Fitz and Dansby. Remember even Fitz' agent came out and said he was the best player in the draft and ought to be paid like it, could be him and not Dansby who is the holdup, I'm just putting my money on Dansby because of his agent.

Per the numbers posted for Steinbach and Brayton you can see why a guy would want first round money for a guy who just slid out of the first round, there is a distinct difference in signing bonus and upfront money for a first rounder.

 

[ajcardfan]

Is there any one event in sports that can change your teams future like the NFL draft?

Signing your rookies on time can mold their entire NFL future. Not getting in on time can severly impact you future, and the details of the contract can severly impact the teams future. In an era of salary cap, the rookies you bring in and spend a lot of money on are the future of your team. I don't know how that can be overblown.

I'm not saying it's unimportant, I'm saying it's overblown. We could have dueling posts all day long as to holdouts who were busts, and holdouts who had good rookie years.

For example, two of the three worst holdouts since the Cards have been in Arizona, Wadsworth and Shelton. The year of Wads' holdout, it was the only season we made the playoffs, he had a decent rookie season. After Shelton held out and missed two or three games, he was starting in a matter of a month and was our best olineman before the season was over, (which admittedly, was not saying much in 1999). The other bad, bad holdout, Bryant, was a rookie disappointment.

The only two years we had all draft picks signed before camp, were the Thomas Jones and Tommy Knight draft classes. Getting in on time sure made their careers, didn't it?

 

[ajcardfan]

This is all I am trying to say as well. If it was Fitz...or even adding Dansby in it wouldn;t bother me too much just yet but when the ENTIRE draft class is unsigned then I think it is time to start fretting a little bit, regardless of aj's somewhat indifferent attitude to having these players in camp on time and actually learning their jobs.

Oh, it would be bad if most, or all, of the draft class was late for camp. Mostly because that stuff gets a negative attitude in the air.