Laker fans begin to worry ; Kobe Quote

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by frdbtr
If he wasn't a selfish person, he would have never cheated on his wife. That is the ultimate in selfishness.

this is a huge generalization, but what percentage of professional athletes do you think cheat on their wives? i'll bet it's HUGE.

 

[elindholm]

The comparison to Jordan is interesting, but Jordan was always the hands-down best player on his team, even when the Bulls were lousy. Bryant has had to mature in O'Neal's shadow, and that's something Jordan never had to deal with.

And frankly, if I were a superstar but the second option behind O'Neal, I'd probably be griping a bit too. O'Neal doesn't bring his best effort every night. I've watched the Lakers a lot this year, and Malone (pre-injury) ran circles around O'Neal in terms of on-court energy. O'Neal seems content, at least so far, to take a back seat to the new stars and let them do most of the work. Of course the Lakers are struggling now with O'Neal and Malone both hurt, but in fact they were already looking mediocre when it was only Malone who was missing.

Meanwhile, Bryant -- who, in spite of his personal problems, can hardly be accused of bringing subpar effort to the basketball court -- has to hear over and over about how the Lakers are O'Neal's team. He is forced to fall in line behind a "leader" who doesn't reliably lead. When the Lakers struggle, it's because O'Neal is out of shape, or hurting, or bored, or sulking over his contract, or whatever. And Bryant has to sit there and take it, even while his own effort is much more consistent.

This year is different because of the rape trial, but in my opinion the Lakers would be better off if Bryant emerged as the leader now. O'Neal may be more dominant, but he no longer has a leader's mentality.

 

[frdbtr]

All good points. I don't agree with some and I do agree with others. Since this is getting to be a tireing discussion, I am not going to elaborate on the points. I think it is all Moot though, the Suns will not be able to sign Kobe next summer unless something drastic happens or unless he accepts a lot less money then the Lakers offer him to play for the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not wanting to get into all the pros and cons about Kobe, but acquiring Kobe (providing he is not convicted), is the Suns surest chance at acquiring a championship.

I do not, however, want the Suns to do a sign and trade where they give up their nucleus.

But yes, I think Kobe can carry a team to a championship.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Mainstreet

I do not, however, want the Suns to do a sign and trade where they give up their nucleus.

Don't worry. The Lakers won't do a sign-and-trade. Funny, I think that was mentioned somewhere on the board.

I've spoken to a lot of Laker fans, and even some fans of other teams, and here is the gist of what they say:

We will not get Kobe Bryant because he simply will decide NOT to opt-out this summer. He has said that he will, but many think that the rape trial will seriously hurt his value, and he won't be able to command a max contract. I'm not sure when the trial is supposed to happen, but some here are saying that it won't happen until next year, not this summer, which is what a lot of us have been hearing.

The Lakers will not do a sign-and-trade because they don't want to get rid of Kobe. They won't trade him and will try like hell to resign him. Basically, it's all up to Kobe and what he wants to do. But even a Celtic fan agrees that he will decide not to opt out of his current deal. And then of course, all this talking will be moot. Many think that next year's Laker team will look exactly like this year's.

 

[Billythekid]

Kobe Bryant in a phoenix Suns uniform would be a dream signing!

Anyone who thinks otherwise is (no offense) um... ok I won't say. Don't want to offend anyone.

This guy is a flat out Superstar. He's the closest thing to Jordan the league is gonna get. He's hasn't even peaked yet. Anyone saying things about Kobe destroying chemistry in LA is BS. How championships have they won? All with Kobe having a major impact.

I tell ya, if we land him the Suns are gonna be AWESOME! Like the old days. 19,023 fans in every night. Winning basketball. Realistic goals of contending for a title. And a team of Kobe, Marion and Amare, being that young, it wouldn't be like in 93 team were alot of our guys were winding down their careers, we'd be contenders for years... and years.

Other then being charged with rape, Kobe hasn't had that many issues.

I wanna 'Free Kobe' tshirt. What was that site again? www.freekobe.com ??? j/k

bottom line, acquiring a player like this comes along once, in say ten years, if he's available and keen we have to get him.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by Mainstreet
I'm not wanting to get into all the pros and cons about Kobe, but acquiring Kobe (providing he is not convicted), is the Suns surest chance at acquiring a championship.

I do not, however, want the Suns to do a sign and trade where they give up their nucleus.

But yes, I think Kobe can carry a team to a championship.

So, in other words, you don't want to make an intelligent argument to disagree with me, you just want to say that i am stupid because I don't think that Kobe would be a good fit on the suns. Now which one of us is stupid. I haven't ever made any personal attacks on this board. Look at all of my points. One of them calls Kobe Stupid but I have evidence to support that statement. If you don't have an intelligent argument, then it is usually a good idea to not argue the fact at all. I don't even know why I am posting this about you. I normally don't get into Intellectual wars with people who are unarmed.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by frdbtr
So, in other words, you don't want to make an intelligent argument to disagree with me, you just want to say that i am stupid because I don't think that Kobe would be a good fit on the suns. Now which one of us is stupid. I haven't ever made any personal attacks on this board. Look at all of my points. One of them calls Kobe Stupid but I have evidence to support that statement. If you don't have an intelligent argument, then it is usually a good idea to not argue the fact at all. I don't even know why I am posting this about you. I normally don't get into Intellectual wars with people who are unarmed.

Stop the namecalling please. Thank you.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Stop the namecalling please. Thank you.

Yes please.

Kobe is a special talent and everyone agrees with that. Whether he would fit and be worth what it would take to get him, maybe not. But that should be an honest disagreement not Presidential politics.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Yes please.

Kobe is a special talent and everyone agrees with that. Whether he would fit and be worth what it would take to get him, maybe not. But that should be an honest disagreement not Presidential politics.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by frdbtr
So, in other words, you don't want to make an intelligent argument to disagree with me, you just want to say that i am stupid because I don't think that Kobe would be a good fit on the suns. Now which one of us is stupid. I haven't ever made any personal attacks on this board. Look at all of my points. One of them calls Kobe Stupid but I have evidence to support that statement. If you don't have an intelligent argument, then it is usually a good idea to not argue the fact at all. I don't even know why I am posting this about you. I normally don't get into Intellectual wars with people who are unarmed.

Did I miss something in the post you responded too? Where did he call you stupid? The only one in this thread calling anyone stupid is you ... toward Kobe. And you say you have evidence. Do you have access to his IQ score, or his SAT's? What else could be considered evidence on stupidity? Since I've never seen anyone tried and convicted of stupidity, I guess I'm not sure what constitutes "evidence."

Committing a stupid act does not necessarily make a person stupid. I don't think Forrest Gump ever cheated on his wife.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by frdbtr
So, in other words, you don't want to make an intelligent argument to disagree with me, you just want to say that i am stupid because I don't think that Kobe would be a good fit on the suns. Now which one of us is stupid. I haven't ever made any personal attacks on this board. Look at all of my points. One of them calls Kobe Stupid but I have evidence to support that statement. If you don't have an intelligent argument, then it is usually a good idea to not argue the fact at all. I don't even know why I am posting this about you. I normally don't get into Intellectual wars with people who are unarmed.

Mainstreet, sorry about this post where I quoted you and then went on to call you some names. My intent was for the billy the kid post that called me stupid for not wanting Kobe. I apoligise for the misunderstanding. however, billy the kid, this post was for you.

 

[frdbtr]

QUOTE]Originally posted by newfan101
Did I miss something in the post you responded too? Where did he call you stupid? The only one in this thread calling anyone stupid is you ... toward Kobe. And you say you have evidence. Do you have access to his IQ score, or his SAT's? What else could be considered evidence on stupidity? Since I've never seen anyone tried and convicted of stupidity, I guess I'm not sure what constitutes "evidence."

Committing a stupid act does not necessarily make a person stupid. I don't think Forrest Gump ever cheated on his wife. [/QUOTE]

So cheating on his wife, and lying about it was not stupid? By the way, the reason that he now has a court date is because the police dept has found enough evidence to prosecute. The reason that the preliminary's have not cleared his name is because the judge (after hearing the evidence) has determined that there is enough evidence to go to trial. This is not a simple "he said/she said" issue. She is not sueing him, the police are prosecuting him because there is evidence that he raped a girl. He may still be cleared but there is definate evidence that he did it. I am not a kobe hater. I have been a fan in the past, but his current attitude is disturbing to me. I would love to have his talent on the team but if it came at the expense of the chemestry that the Suns can have by playing "Team" Ball then I am against it. Kobe has showed me recently that he is not a team player.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by frdbtr


So cheating on his wife, and lying about it was not stupid? By the way, the reason that he now has a court date is because the police dept has found enough evidence to prosecute. The reason that the preliminary's have not cleared his name is because the judge (after hearing the evidence) has determined that there is enough evidence to go to trial. This is not a simple "he said/she said" issue. She is not sueing him, the police are prosecuting him because there is evidence that he raped a girl. He may still be cleared but there is definate evidence that he did it. I am not a kobe hater. I have been a fan in the past, but his current attitude is disturbing to me. I would love to have his talent on the team but if it came at the expense of the chemestry that the Suns can have by playing "Team" Ball then I am against it. Kobe has showed me recently that he is not a team player.

But he's also playing on a different kind of team. I think it was Eric or somebody who wrote a good post about Kobe and how he fits in with Shaquille O'Neal's style, especially as a "leader".

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by frdbtr


So cheating on his wife, and lying about it was not stupid? By the way, the reason that he now has a court date is because the police dept has found enough evidence to prosecute. The reason that the preliminary's have not cleared his name is because the judge (after hearing the evidence) has determined that there is enough evidence to go to trial. This is not a simple "he said/she said" issue. She is not sueing him, the police are prosecuting him because there is evidence that he raped a girl. He may still be cleared but there is definate evidence that he did it. I am not a kobe hater. I have been a fan in the past, but his current attitude is disturbing to me. I would love to have his talent on the team but if it came at the expense of the chemestry that the Suns can have by playing "Team" Ball then I am against it. Kobe has showed me recently that he is not a team player.

I never once brought up the evidence of the case. You said you had evidence that he was stupid. I'm saying committing an immoral act, which you claim to be "stupid," is not evidence of one's intelligence. There are many people more brilliant than Kobe Bryant that have committed immoral acts. That doesn't make them stupid. It makes them immoral.

The problem I see with your arguement is you're taking morality issues with Kobe and translating them into basketball characteristics. Your arguement seems to be: Because he was convicted of rape, he is stupid. Because he committed adultery, he is selfish. Therefore, he wouldn't be a good fit for the Suns because that proves he's not a team player and would ruin team chemistry. I don't think you can make a connection between the two. What Kobe did off the court describes him as a person, not as a basketball player.

Beyond that, I will say once again that I agree Kobe is a selfish basketball player, not because he committed adultery, but because he want's to be the top dog on the best team. I find that to be, in basketball terms, a great thing. All of the best players have that element to their game. But that doesn't make them great people off the court. Their simply is no correlation between a players morality off the court and their effectiveness on it.

If you don't want Kobe on your team because you have a moral issue with him ... fine. But you can't tell me that Kobe's immorality off the court translates into him not being a good fit on the court with the Suns. Brian in Mesa has beaten his opinion of Kobe to death, and while I don't agree with it, at least it's a straightforward, honest opinion that has nothing to do with his basketball skills.

Kobe is the best non-big man in the game. He can lead this team to a championship. And he wants too more than anyone else. If he isn't convicted, the Suns would be fools not to go after him as hard as they can. Then, if he does come to the Suns, you'll have a choice to root for them and their immoral leader or not. But you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that he's a bad basketball fit because you don't like how he handles his personal life.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by newfan101
I never once brought up the evidence of the case. You said you had evidence that he was stupid. I'm saying committing an immoral act, which you claim to be "stupid," is not evidence of one's intelligence. There are many people more brilliant than Kobe Bryant that have committed immoral acts. That doesn't make them stupid. It makes them immoral.

The problem I see with your arguement is you're taking morality issues with Kobe and translating them into basketball characteristics. Your arguement seems to be: Because he was convicted of rape, he is stupid. Because he committed adultery, he is selfish.

I agree that committing adultry does not make one stupid and that is not my point. he is stupid because he has himself in court on rape charges that seem pretty credible.

Originally posted by newfan101
Therefore, he wouldn't be a good fit for the Suns because that proves he's not a team player and would ruin team chemistry. I don't think you can make a connection between the two. What Kobe did off the court describes him as a person, not as a basketball player.

Beyond that, I will say once again that I agree Kobe is a selfish basketball player, not because he committed adultery, but because he want's to be the top dog on the best team. I find that to be, in basketball terms, a great thing. All of the best players have that element to their game. But that doesn't make them great people off the court. Their simply is no correlation between a players morality off the court and their effectiveness on it.

If you don't want Kobe on your team because you have a moral issue with him ... fine. But you can't tell me that Kobe's immorality off the court translates into him not being a good fit on the court with the Suns. Brian in Mesa has beaten his opinion of Kobe to death, and while I don't agree with it, at least it's a straightforward, honest opinion that has nothing to do with his basketball skills.

Kobe is the best non-big man in the game. He can lead this team to a championship. And he wants too more than anyone else. If he isn't convicted, the Suns would be fools not to go after him as hard as they can. Then, if he does come to the Suns, you'll have a choice to root for them and their immoral leader or not. But you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that he's a bad basketball fit because you don't like how he handles his personal life.

I agree that Kobe's talent is incredible. My argument is not that he is selfish because he cheated on his wife. My argument is he is selfish because he is sitting in LA (where he and Shaq could win every championship until they both retire) and he gripes every day because he wants to be "the man" Magic Johnson Played next to Kareem every day and did you hear him complaining about not being "the man"? This is my Selfish point with Kobe. What makes you think that he would change his attitude in Phoenix? He would come here and demand to shoot the ball 40 times a game and then he would complain when the coaches wanted Amare more involved. I just don't think that he is a good fit. Lets build a team around Amare and let Kobe go ruin some other teams Chemestry.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by frdbtr

I agree that Kobe's talent is incredible. My argument is not that he is selfish because he cheated on his wife. My argument is he is selfish because he is sitting in LA (where he and Shaq could win every championship until they both retire) and he gripes every day because he wants to be "the man" Magic Johnson Played next to Kareem every day and did you hear him complaining about not being "the man"? This is my Selfish point with Kobe. What makes you think that he would change his attitude in Phoenix? He would come here and demand to shoot the ball 40 times a game and then he would complain when the coaches wanted Amare more involved. I just don't think that he is a good fit. Lets build a team around Amare and let Kobe go ruin some other teams Chemestry. [/B]

We are now hearing that Amare and Shawn were not happy with the way Stephon ran the offense. But they did not take their complaints to the press or threaten to leave. (Kobe was talking about leaving for at least two yaers). I am sure that we don't know all the facts and maybe Kobe is entirely in the right. But you have to wonder.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
We are now hearing that Amare and Shawn were not happy with the way Stephon ran the offense. But they did not take their complaints to the press or threaten to leave. (Kobe was talking about leaving for at least two yaers). I am sure that we don't know all the facts and maybe Kobe is entirely in the right. But you have to wonder.

this is a good point. I am probably making judgements without all of the facts. However I have stated that if Kobe comes to Phoenix I will cheer for him to succeed. My point has been from the beginning that he is selfish and I would rather not find out, after the suns cap themselves out on him, that he doesn't fit with Amare's game. I personnally believe that Amare is the future of this franchise and I would prefer that the suns build around him and not bring in Kobe and then have to blow the whole thing up again to get players around him to fit his game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by frdbtr

there is evidence that he raped a girl.

i'm guessing that you didn't attend law school. there is evidence that he MAY have committed a rape. nothing more. to say otherwise is slanderous, or, i guess since you've typed that comment, it's libelous.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
i'm guessing that you didn't attend law school. there is evidence that he MAY have committed a rape. nothing more. to say otherwise is slanderous, or, i guess since you've typed that comment, it's libelous.

OK he "Allegedly" raped a girl. Is that better Lawyer the clown?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by newfan101
Because he was convicted of rape, he is stupid.

okay, i am hater of kobe as much as the next (unless he signs here), but can we all agree that he's been "convicted" of nothing yet? innocent until proven guilty. and from what i've heard, the evidence is not overwhelming in favor of one side or the other as yet.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by frdbtr
OK he "Allegedly" raped a girl. Is that better Lawyer the clown?

were you in his position would you want people running around saying you raped someone? we have a judicial system with rules for a reason. it may not be a perfect legal system, but it's far better than those existing in other nations.

 

[frdbtr]

I never said he was guilty either. I just said that there has been enough evidence, thus far in the case, that it is going to go to trial. Normally if there isn't any evidence then in the preliminary hearings the judge will dismiss the charges. The judge ordered a trial so there is at least enough evidence that Kobe's lawyers couldn't get the charges dismissed in the preliminary hearings. By the way, this discussion isn't whether he is guilty of rape, it is whether he would be a good fit with the Suns. I still don't think that he is.

 

[Chaplin]

How about a what-if scenario? What if Kobe wasn't the one we were talking about, but Shaq? Both player fill a need position for us.

If I had to choose, I'd still choose Kobe, not because of his attitude, but because of his age and his inerant skill set, which is broader than Shaq.

Many people will probably disagree with that, but you just don't say no to a Kobe Bryant. The only player that comes to his level with injury issues, to me, is Kevin Garnett. I like Duncan, but he's not as much of a runner as Kobe and KG.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
How about a what-if scenario? What if Kobe wasn't the one we were talking about, but Shaq? Both player fill a need position for us.

If I had to choose, I'd still choose Kobe, not because of his attitude, but because of his age and his inerant skill set, which is broader than Shaq.

Many people will probably disagree with that, but you just don't say no to a Kobe Bryant. The only player that comes to his level with injury issues, to me, is Kevin Garnett. I like Duncan, but he's not as much of a runner as Kobe and KG.

I wouldn't want Shaq either since we have Amare. He isn't to Shaq's level yet but who's to say that in a few years he won't be. I just think that Kobe would want to shoot the ball 40 times per game and that would harm Amare's game. I would rather build a team around Amare then sign Kobe, find out that he clashes with our current team and then start all over again building a team around Kobe.