Lakers @ Suns 10-24-18

[Mainstreet]

At least he is just a one year player.

I agree about this but someday the future needs to arrive for the Suns.

Ariza, Chandler and Anderson will likely be gone next season. The Suns desperately need more talent.

 

[elindholm]

I recently read "You are the villian in someone's story". Which is a great perspective because we all think we are the hero in ours.

So Eric, I was really sincere in saying that you do nothing that will get you banned. We will frequently diagree but you are a great poster who brings in a lot to this board.

Thanks, Chris, I appreciate that. I was mainly joking but there was probably also some anger behind it. These times make everyone jumpy and I agree that it's difficult to remember to look for good intentions when they are there.

 

[gimpy]

Talking about no defense from the Suns.

I thought that I had read on here earlier before the season started that many (a lot?) of the Suns new players were somewhat defensive minded. So, I was expecting a lot better defense than what I have seen. Apparently, I am not remembering too well.

And what has happened to our play/coaching since the first game? These last three games have been such a let down.

 

[pokerface]

I agree about this but someday the future needs to arrive for the Suns.

Ariza, Chandler and Anderson will likely be gone next season. The Suns desperately need more talent.

It was hard to fix everything this year. The suna made a lot of moves at least. Having Ayton and Booker should get us more looks in the free agency market at least. Next off season should be pretty interesting.

 

[1Sun]

It was hard to fix everything this year. The suna made a lot of moves at least. Having Ayton and Booker should get us more looks in the free agency market at least. Next off season should be pretty interesting.

They didn't get us looks this past summer, or if they did, McD was beyond stupid to target Ariza over others giving us those looks...

 

[Mainstreet]

It was hard to fix everything this year. The suna made a lot of moves at least. Having Ayton and Booker should get us more looks in the free agency market at least. Next off season should be pretty interesting.

Let's hope next season looks brighter. I could have been happier if the Suns addressed the point guard position as they did the center position.

 

[SirStefan32]

He just isn’t putting forth much effort on that end

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Just can’t have that type of defense at the professional level and expect to win or even be in close games.

So, the criticism of Ayton in valid there, but Booker was playing with either 3 fouls in the 2nd quarter or 4 in the 3rd. I remember that play because I was screaming "don't foul."

 

[SirStefan32]

Talking about no defense from the Suns.

I thought that I had read on here earlier before the season started that many (a lot?) of the Suns new players were somewhat defensive minded. So, I was expecting a lot better defense than what I have seen. Apparently, I am not remembering too well.

And what has happened to our play/coaching since the first game? These last three games have been such a let down.

Well, Ariza and Bridges were added, and they are good defenders. Problem is that we have three bad defenders in the starting lineup. Booker and Anderson are awful, and Ayton is bad too, but at least he is a rookie, so there is hope he'll figure it out.
I am guessing that Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Ariza (or Jackson)/Ayton lineup would be a bit better defensively.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Talking about no defense from the Suns.

I thought that I had read on here earlier before the season started that many (a lot?) of the Suns new players were somewhat defensive minded. So, I was expecting a lot better defense than what I have seen. Apparently, I am not remembering too well.

And what has happened to our play/coaching since the first game? These last three games have been such a let down.

The inability of ariza and JJ to hit threes causes the offense to collapse (I’d include Anderson, but it’s not like he was draining them in game 1 either).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So, the criticism of Ayton in valid there, but Booker was playing with either 3 fouls in the 2nd quarter or 4 in the 3rd. I remember that play because I was screaming "don't foul."

I actually think booker played that well. He’s not going to stop lebron unless he fouls him. Slightly slowing him should’ve allowed someone else (not just Ayton, but Ayton is the one that stuck out to me in the video) to come over and help. They might not have stopped lebron but they likely don’t give up the rebound follow layup.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, Ariza and Bridges were added, and they are good defenders. Problem is that we have three bad defenders in the starting lineup. Booker and Anderson are awful, and Ayton is bad too, but at least he is a rookie, so there is hope he'll figure it out.
I am guessing that Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Ariza (or Jackson)/Ayton lineup would be a bit better defensively.

The best defensive lineup is likely:

Melton
Booker
Bridges/JJ/Ariza
Ariza/JJ/Bridges
Ayton

If Melton can get some run and show even the slightest hint of offensive ability it would be a boon to the team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton has the largest Ortg to Drtg among all the rookies in this class and its not close. And that is with a team that was blown out in three of four games. I think his defense is better than we realize, we just see how it could be better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton has the largest Ortg to Drtg among all the rookies in this class and its not close. And that is with a team that was blown out in three of four games. I think his defense is better than we realize, we just see how it could be better.

Yeah, I think he's played much better on D than it would seem from the posts here. He's made a lot of errors, the whole team has but positionally he's been fairly sound. He isn't as much of a rim protector as we'd like but that's not all there is to defense.

 

[pokerface]

Let's hope next season looks brighter. I could have been happier if the Suns addressed the point guard position as they did the center position.

I think next off season will have better pg options.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

They didn't get us looks this past summer, or if they did, McD was beyond stupid to target Ariza over others giving us those looks...

Depends on how this season plays out. If Booker is an all star and Ayton looks like another star player this season than I could see us drawing a good free agent. Neither of those things were realities this past summer. Expecting Ayton to be an attraction to free agents before he ever stepped on an NBA court is far fetched.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ariza might be the biggest disappointment so far.

At this rate I don't see the Suns being able to package him at the deadline as a rental to a contender like I had hoped would be possible. That would have given us a half of season with him, maybe a little more, and allowed us to move our youngsters higher in the rotation to get more minutes but Ariza has been awful outside of the preseason. Not a fan of the signing and he's not providing any silver lining. He's barely better than Dudley was for us last year.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think next off season will have better pg options.

I agree with this. I guess I had higher hopes for the Suns showing more this season. It's hard to understand how the point guard position was ignored until the 2nd round.

 

[Errntknght]

Ayton has the largest Ortg to Drtg among all the rookies in this class and its not close. And that is with a team that was blown out in three of four games. I think his defense is better than we realize, we just see how it could be better.

I don't follow. The Ortg to Drtg is largest when the Drtg is lowest so how does that show Ayton is doing better than we think on D? I haven't seen the stat so maybe the formula is
Drtg divided by Ortg, contrary to what you are saying. Mathematically, the ratio of A to B means A divided by B. If one leaves the word 'ratio' out it doesn't change the meaning to the exact opposite - it could mean A minus B but then the same is true - A-B is largest when B is smallest. To tell the truth I don't know a good reason to look at either ratio or difference when you're interested in Ayton's rank on Drtg among his fellow rookies.

Okay, I'm nitpicking but dammit, I'm a math teacher and math literacy is important.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't follow. The Ortg to Drtg is largest when the Drtg is lowest so how does that show Ayton is doing better than we think on D? I haven't seen the stat so maybe the formula is
Drtg divided by Ortg, contrary to what you are saying. Mathematically, the ratio of A to B means A divided by B. If one leaves the word 'ratio' out it doesn't change the meaning to the exact opposite - it could mean A minus B but then the same is true - A-B is largest when B is smallest. To tell the truth I don't know a good reason to look at either ratio or difference when you're interested in Ayton's rank on Drtg among his fellow rookies.

Okay, I'm nitpicking but dammit, I'm a math teacher and math literacy is important.

Ortg according to basketball reference is an estimate of points produced per 100 possessions. Higher is better.
Drtg is an estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions. Lower is better.

The bigger the difference, the better.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01.html

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't follow. The Ortg to Drtg is largest when the Drtg is lowest so how does that show Ayton is doing better than we think on D? I haven't seen the stat so maybe the formula is
Drtg divided by Ortg, contrary to what you are saying. Mathematically, the ratio of A to B means A divided by B. If one leaves the word 'ratio' out it doesn't change the meaning to the exact opposite - it could mean A minus B but then the same is true - A-B is largest when B is smallest. To tell the truth I don't know a good reason to look at either ratio or difference when you're interested in Ayton's rank on Drtg among his fellow rookies.

Okay, I'm nitpicking but dammit, I'm a math teacher and math literacy is important.

Ayton has an Drtg of 114 which isn't good by any means, but the reason why the difference is so big is because his Ortg is 137 which is outstanding. The offense is quite simply way better when he is on the floor because opposing defenses pay so much attention to him and because he is incredibly efficient.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton has an Drtg of 114 which isn't good by any means, but the reason why the difference is so big is because his Ortg is 137 which is outstanding. The offense is quite simply way better when he is on the floor because opposing defenses pay so much attention to him and because he is incredibly efficient.

Thats certainly a fair assessment.

And EK, I understand. My daughter is a high school math teach.

 

[Errntknght]

My key mistake was not knowing the definition of Drtg. Thanks guys.

So the story is that Ayton's Drtg is poor but his Ortg is great, thus he's a big plus overall.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

To go a little further with those numbers. Ayton's Ortg is actually 7th in the entire league right now (only including players getting at least 20 minutes/game) and the highest number is 143, just 6 points higher. His Drtg is 86th out of 211 players that qualify and thus is more along the lines of mediocre. It will be interesting to see how the season shapes out because a lot of numbers around the league are much higher at the moment than they usually are.

 

[leclerc]

We're the worst team in the league (last season) and I too was hoping for a rising Phoenix start to the season, but it looks like we'll be a pip squeak for quite a while longer. Let's hope Jackson and Bridges find their feet in Booker's absence and maybe some positive signs from Okobo. I'm not even mentioning Ariza and Anderson. Shame!

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[elindholm]

Ayton has an Drtg of 114 which isn't good by any means

True, but scoring league-wide is crazy high so far, so 114 isn't nearly so bad as it would have been a year or two ago.