Landry Shamet traded to suns for Javon Carter and 29th pick

[1Sun]

Stix isn't a big?

Not one who will be ready to contribute before the 2023-24 season.

 

[SirStefan32]

Shamet is a restricted free agent after the 2021-22 season with a salary slot of $5,562,072 that the Suns must match to retain his rights.

I understand that there are 15, so technically they could afford to give one to a rookie, but that prevents them from signing another contributor later. Paul, Book, Bridges, Crowder, Ayton, Cam P, Cam J... that's seven. Dario and Stix (though Dario is not playing next year) bring that up to nine. They need at least two more bigs and a third point guard, which brings the number of used roster spots to 12. That leaves them with three spots to fill out the roster. They just sucesfully created an extra spot or two by trading Carter and the pick, and making Galloway redundant while adding one rotation player. That will allow them to fill the needs (third point guard, two bigs) and leave them two extra roster spots to play with.

 

[SirStefan32]

Sorry, Read the wrong thing the other day, however, we can sign Payne and not have to use MLE....
Cameron Payne: the Suns have Payne’s Early Bird Rights can re-sign Payne for up to the league average salary (about $10 million in year one, for up to 4 years) and not even use the MLE

Oh, well that's great news! I have not heard that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton... Bridges...

Not jones

 

[SirStefan32]

oh poop. then I don't know how we're going to get another legit big game and keep Payne. A guy like Noel is going to cost the full MLE. Would we all collectively throw up if we brought in someone like... Dwight Howard? Is he even available?

Different poster is saying that they can pay him up to the league average, around $10M per year, so I may be wrong. I certainly hope I am wrong on this one.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sorry, Read the wrong thing the other day, however, we can sign Payne and not have to use MLE....
Cameron Payne: the Suns have Payne’s Early Bird Rights can re-sign Payne for up to the league average salary (about $10 million in year one, for up to 4 years) and not even use the MLE

If this is true that's great. We could still use the MLE to get a big. The one thing I never considered about this trade? Shamet might be insurance for Payne if the Suns think there is a legit fear of him leaving.

 

[1Sun]

Not one who will be ready to contribute before the 2023-24 season.

Given your reaction, 82CardsGrad, you must not have seen Stix get absolutely abused on both ends of the court last season...IN THE G LEAGUE.

He is at LEAST 2-3 years away from deserving so much as a single minute in an NBA game that counts.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Not jones

Well... not entirely perhaps. But as VP Basketball Operations and then "interim" GM in 2018, just a few months after Ayton and Bridges were drafted, I'd guess he had a lot of say in those picks...

 

[Covert Rain]

Given your reaction, 82CardsGrad, you must not have seen Stix get absolutely abused on both ends of the court last season...IN THE G LEAGUE.

He is at LEAST 2-3 years away from deserving so much as a single minute in an NBA game that counts.

Did you just quote yourself? Besides no pick at #29 would be ready faster than Stix anyway.

 

[1Sun]

Did you just quote yourself? Besides no pick at #29 would be ready faster than Stix anyway.

It was a response to another poster's reaction to that post. I couldn't figure out another way to quote the reaction to put it in context.

Meanwhile, my point was that if the Suns were going to package the #29 and Carter for a veteran, it should have been for a big, not someone like Shamet (who I am not sure is really any better right now than Dosunmu, McBride, Butler, Ayayi, Grimes, etc.), or else they should have used the #29 on one of those mature combo guards and saved Carter's salary to match in a separate trade for a big.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Shamet was awesome on the Clips. Great trade IMO

 

[Raze]

FWIW, I wrote this up on Landry in 2018 pre draft.

I'm gonna go ahead and rescind the Shamet comment. (I spent the better part of my morning watching game film on him to get a more well rounded view.) Man, this guy is a heady player. You can see it all over the court. Taking charges, making smart passes while driving, staying within the flow of the O, taking over when his team needs him, getting everyone involved, talking to team mates between plays... This list goes on and on with this guy. He's literally a coach on the court. Oh yeah, and he just so happens to be a 44% 3 point shooter.

I was particular impressed with his ability to handle the point. He uses a lot of hesitations, change of pace, and cross overs to create separation. He's not particularly quick, but he knows how to compensate. He also makes passes that would indicate he's a student of the game. Carson Palmer was notorious for making passes where the player "should have been" on a route. I see a lot of those kind of passes from Landry. On drives he seems to instinctively know where his team mates are and finds them. Another subtle thing I noticed was his commitment to the offense. Many times these days a PG will try to take over the game and dominate the ball time. Landry does a great job of following what the coaches are asking him to do. When he receives the ball he quickly looks for and open team mate, then his shot, then quickly passes to the next man. I have a lot of respect for guys that COULD ball hog, but instead choose to be a team player.

Defensively he's a smart dude. While he's not the quickest defender, he makes up for it with preparation. He digs in and becomes enough of a nuisance to throw off his opponent. He also is student of the game and seems to know what players tend to like. This doesn't show up on stat sheets, but HCs fall in love with these kind of players. He needs to get his hand ready in lanes (like EVERY other player in existence) and he needs to concentrate on his foot work. There are times where he skips rather than chops. But its not an all the time thing. You can tell he's been working on it.

He excels at shooting. He's an underrated driver. He's smart on his drive and dishes. He can handle full court pressure. He's a student of the game. He can run an O. He's a team player.

Yeah, I'm all in on taking him at #16.

So to be clear, I like Landry. But I'm a bit meh on the trade.

First of all, I don't see him getting playoff minutes outside of injuries. Think about it; CP/Book, Payne/Book, and CP/Payne were our predominant back court combos. I don't see Landry taking Payne out of that spot, so where is he going to get minutes? And CP and Book aren't giving up their lofty minutes. Therefore, he only gets minutes if Payne is gone. Which none of us want. Landry appears to be a regular season player here.

Also, for those looking at his minutes with the Nets, remember, they were razor thin after their starters due to injury and salary. If Dinwiddie was healthy...

Second, I really like what Carter gives you. A good teammate who gives you 3&D every night. Also, this draft is not like normal drafts. It's very deep, and as Kellan Olson said the other night, there will be a lot of guys who will be solid contributors to NBA rosters taken at the end of the 1st round (like Shamet). I'm bummed we didn't get a shot at Ayo or McBride as I thought they have as much to offer as Landry if not more (potentially of course).

(Before I say what I'm about to say, let me tell you I LOVE JJ and trust his foresight) That said, I'm still puzzled as to why JJ continues to trade assets before the draft. It's just odd that he doesn't wait until he's on the clock and then trade the pick if he's unsatisfied with the available prospects. Sometimes teams get desperate and make bad trades when it's live. And sometimes players mysteriously plummet on draft night and good teams pick them up cheaper later. I'm pretty sure that if the Nets were willing to trade Landry now, they'd still be willing to trade when we pick. He just doesn't seem to like messing around during the draft.

I don't think this trade is even remotely close to a make or break deal, but since we have nothing else to talk about...

 

[Rivercard]

steadily the same player. I like it. He’s a legit backup SG, shoots the 3 ball decent and is a pesky defender from what I remember.

That seems about right. Wasn't really an impact player with the Clips, but a pretty good shooter who misses just enough to make you crazy at times. He's young and healthy, so if he can grow his game he should give you some quality minutes. Seems like a solid trade.

 

[Covert Rain]

FWIW, I wrote this up on Landry in 2018 pre draft.

So to be clear, I like Landry. But I'm a bit meh on the trade.

First of all, I don't see him getting playoff minutes outside of injuries. Think about it; CP/Book, Payne/Book, and CP/Payne were our predominant back court combos. I don't see Landry taking Payne out of that spot, so where is going to get minutes? And CP and Book aren't giving up their lofty minutes. Therefore, he only gets minutes if Payne is gone. Which none of us want. Landry appears to be a regular season player here.

Also, for those looking at his minutes with the Nets, remember, they were razor thin after their starters due to injury and salary. If Dinwiddie was healthy...

Second, I really like what Carter gives you. A good teammate who gives you 3&D every night. Also, this draft is not like normal drafts. It's very deep, and as Kellan Olson said the other night, there will be a lot of guys who will be solid contributors to NBA rosters taken at the end of the 1st round (like Shamet). I'm bummed we didn't get a shot at Ayo or McBride as I thought they have as much to offer as Landry if not more (potentially of course).

(Before I say what I'm about to say, let me tell you I LOVE JJ and trust his foresight) That said, I'm still puzzled as to why JJ continues to trade assets before the draft. It's just odd that he doesn't wait until he's on the clock and then trade the pick if he's unsatisfied with the available prospects. Sometimes teams get desperate and make bad trades when it's live. And sometimes players mysteriously plummet on draft night and good teams pick them up cheaper later. I'm pretty sure that if the Nets were willing to trade Landry now, they'd still be willing to trade when we pick. He just doesn't seem to like messing around during the draft.

I don't these trade is even remotely close to a make or break deal, but since we have nothing else to talk about...

The Suns likely played Booker and Paul at times more than they wanted to. They rarely rested at the same time which meant stretches during the game where Booker/Paul were not playing together. If Payne is on you are probably right. However, when Payne is off? We didn't have another option. Shamet might give you options.

Carter gives you nothing if he can't get off the bench. Even in the above scenario they most of the time opted for him NOT to get off the bench and rode it out with our other players.

In terms of assets? #29 and Carter isn't much of an asset. You could wait but if you do that you also risk players you really want already being gone before draft night. If you wait, nobody pulls the trigger with you on draft night you have done ZERO to improve your team while other teams like the Lakers are getting better.

 

[Chaplin]

FWIW, I wrote this up on Landry in 2018 pre draft.

So to be clear, I like Landry. But I'm a bit meh on the trade.

First of all, I don't see him getting playoff minutes outside of injuries. Think about it; CP/Book, Payne/Book, and CP/Payne were our predominant back court combos. I don't see Landry taking Payne out of that spot, so where is he going to get minutes? And CP and Book aren't giving up their lofty minutes. Therefore, he only gets minutes if Payne is gone. Which none of us want. Landry appears to be a regular season player here.

Also, for those looking at his minutes with the Nets, remember, they were razor thin after their starters due to injury and salary. If Dinwiddie was healthy...

Second, I really like what Carter gives you. A good teammate who gives you 3&D every night. Also, this draft is not like normal drafts. It's very deep, and as Kellan Olson said the other night, there will be a lot of guys who will be solid contributors to NBA rosters taken at the end of the 1st round (like Shamet). I'm bummed we didn't get a shot at Ayo or McBride as I thought they have as much to offer as Landry if not more (potentially of course).

(Before I say what I'm about to say, let me tell you I LOVE JJ and trust his foresight) That said, I'm still puzzled as to why JJ continues to trade assets before the draft. It's just odd that he doesn't wait until he's on the clock and then trade the pick if he's unsatisfied with the available prospects. Sometimes teams get desperate and make bad trades when it's live. And sometimes players mysteriously plummet on draft night and good teams pick them up cheaper later. I'm pretty sure that if the Nets were willing to trade Landry now, they'd still be willing to trade when we pick. He just doesn't seem to like messing around during the draft.

I don't think this trade is even remotely close to a make or break deal, but since we have nothing else to talk about...

They absolutely need to make sure Book gets rest. That's what this trade does.

 

[1Sun]

They absolutely need to make sure Book gets rest. That's what this trade does.

More so than selecting Dosunmu, McBride, Ayayi, Butler, Grimes or the like at 29?

 

[Covert Rain]

More so than selecting Dosunmu, McBride, Ayayi, Butler, Grimes or the like at 29?

Almost 100% more than the #29 and there was no guarantee any of those other players even translate well to the NBA. We see a ton of players struggle out of the gate every year from the draft.

 

[Proximo]

So far Jones has drafted:

Cam Johnson (while also picking up Dario Saric trading down) - both contributed throughout the season and in the playoffs
Jalen Smith (who didn't contribute anything)

So not seeing a track record that Jones hates rookies.

He also has traded away all of our 2nd rounders, and next years, and this years firsts.

He drafted Cam Johnson because he was 24.

He has also repeatedly said he does not think young players help you win.

The suns fired all their scouts. Don't know what they have now. They sold their G league team.

The evidence is clear for anyone who wants to see it - James Jones hates rookies and developmental projects.

 

[SirStefan32]

He also has traded away all of our 2nd rounders, and next years, and this years firsts.

He drafted Cam Johnson because he was 24.

He has also repeatedly said he does not think young players help you win.

The suns fired all their scouts. Don't know what they have now. They sold their G league team.

The evidence is clear for anyone who wants to see it - James Jones hates rookies and developmental projects.

Or, he prefers winning now and fielding a competitive team.

 

[Covert Rain]

He also has traded away all of our 2nd rounders, and next years, and this years firsts.

He drafted Cam Johnson because he was 24.

He has also repeatedly said he does not think young players help you win.

The suns fired all their scouts. Don't know what they have now. They sold their G league team.

The evidence is clear for anyone who wants to see it - James Jones hates rookies and developmental projects.

Trading away 2nd rounders is supported by statistics. He doesn't think young players help you win now. He never said they don't help you in the long run if you are in rebuild mode. He is not running a team in rebuild mode. He is running a team in win now mode. Big difference.

It's a stretch to say he hates rookies. Especially, when you don't include any of the context of where this team is now.

 

[Proximo]

Almost 100% more than the #29 and there was no guarantee any of those other players even translate well to the NBA. We see a ton of players struggle out of the gate every year from the draft.

No there is no guarentee, odds are the pick would never play a meaningful minute. But after 3 years of Shamet not seemingly improving at all, and him being a below average player - how exactly is that a huge win?

If the Nets thought Shamet would improve, I don't see them getting rid of him - ditto for the Clippers, because like a lot of people are saying here he is young still and relatively cheap.

Make no mistake, Nets made this deal because they value the pick more than Shamet.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder who the Suns are going to bring out as their first round pick?

Amare might be available.

 

[Covert Rain]

No there is no guarentee, odds are the pick would never play a meaningful minute. But after 3 years of Shamet not seemingly improving at all, and him being a below average player - how exactly is that a huge win?

If the Nets thought Shamet would improve, I don't see them getting rid of him - ditto for the Clippers, because like a lot of people are saying here he is young still and relatively cheap.

Make no mistake, Nets made this deal because they value the pick more than Shamet.

That's what "almost" means. We were getting zero from Carter. Shamet has had some really solid games over the past 3 seasons. They Suns are not looking for him to start. They are likely looking to get more depth on the bench from people who have a chance to get off the bench. They are looking for more flexibility at the guard position.

No that's likely not why the Nets made this move. It's obvious the Nets which now have five picks (27, 29, 44, 49 and 59) are compiling picks for other moves. I seriously doubt this was about coveting a #29. The Nets are already loaded and just gave themselves so many more options with having 5 picks. My gosh...it's almost unreal what the Nets have done the past few seasons.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's what "almost" means. We were getting zero from Carter. Shamet has had some really solid games over the past 3 seasons. They Suns are not looking for him to start. They are likely looking to get more depth on the bench from people who have a chance to get off the bench. They are looking for more flexibility at the guard position. It's obvious the Nets which now have five picks (27, 29, 44, 49 and 59) are compiling picks for other moves. I seriously doubt this was about coveting a #29.

Who signed Carter to a three year contract?

 

[Proximo]

(Before I say what I'm about to say, let me tell you I LOVE JJ and trust his foresight) That said, I'm still puzzled as to why JJ continues to trade assets before the draft. It's just odd that he doesn't wait until he's on the clock and then trade the pick if he's unsatisfied with the available prospects. Sometimes teams get desperate and make bad trades when it's live. And sometimes players mysteriously plummet on draft night and good teams pick them up cheaper later. I'm pretty sure that if the Nets were willing to trade Landry now, they'd still be willing to trade when we pick. He just doesn't seem to like messing around during the draft.

It's because of how much he hates the draft.

He wants it over with, he thinks of it as a burden instead of a way to improve the team.

I actually think he is so concerned about making bad draft picks, he doesn't want to make any. He feels like he can acurately guage veterans, and generally I think he just fears the unknown.

That's my opinion.