Landry Shamet traded to suns for Javon Carter and 29th pick

[Covert Rain]

And yet Carter's numbers and defense were superior...

The comparison with Galloway wasn't a good one. It had a LIMITED SAMPLE SIZE. He never got off the bench. It's easy to make your numbers look better when you can't get any minutes. I have not seen Carter's numbers but same thing. Show me a single point last season where Carter or Galloway put up numbers like Shamet did in April. I will wait.

 

[Covert Rain]

His 3pt% would be the 7th best on last season's team.

His volume compares to our best 3 point shooters. Most of our 3's come from corners or catch and shoots. His numbers in those two areas are comparable to our best shooters.

Catch-and-shoot 3s = 40.5% Corner 3s = 45%

 

[Mainstreet]

And yet Carter's numbers and defense were superior...

The problem is Monty didn't have confidence in playing Carter. Would I have given Carter more opportunities? The answer is yes but I'm not the coach.

I wanted to keep #29 but I may have totally disagreed with whom Jones selected like last season at #10.

Maybe Monty plays Shamet and it's not a one year rental.

 

[Bufalay]

And yet Carter's numbers and defense were superior...

Carter's numbers were not better than Shamet's.

Carter's defensive stats weren't that good either.

 

[Bufalay]

His volume compares to our best 3 point shooters. Most of our 3's come from corners or catch and shoots. His numbers in those two areas are comparable to our best shooters.

Catch-and-shoot 3s = 40.5% Corner 3s = 45%

From that I deduce that he must've been dribbling around taking dumb shots to drop his total percentage to 37%.

 

[1Sun]

Carter's numbers were not better than Shamet's.

Carter's defensive stats weren't that good either.

Carter's PER was better by two full points. Other than shooting volume and three point percentage, Carter's other analytics on both ends of the court were better as well.

 

[Covert Rain]

The problem is Monty didn't have confidence in playing Carter. Would I have given Carter more opportunities? The answer is yes but I'm not the coach.

I wanted to keep #29 but I may have totally disagreed with whom Jones selected like last season at #10.

Maybe Monty plays Shamet and it's not a one year rental.

Him being a one year rental is legit regardless of how he plays. If he rides the bench he is gone next year. If he plays well? He still might be gone. Remind me. His contract is up after next season right?

 

[Covert Rain]

From that I deduce that he must've been dribbling around taking dumb shots to drop his total percentage to 37%.

Either that or he was doing what they asked him to do in that offense in that situation. We have seen how that worked out for Booker prior to this season too. He likely won't be asked to dribble as much here and our offense is a perfect fit. His efficiency in those spots is exactly where they ask Bridges, Cam and Crowder to shoot in this offense.

 

[Bufalay]

Carter's PER was better by two full points. Other than shooting volume and three point percentage, Carter's other analytics on both ends of the court were better as well.

You're right. I was looking at playoff stats which are meaningless for Carter.

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM	VORP
1	Jevon Carter	2020-21	25	60	717	12.2	.548	.677	.031	2.6	11.8	7.3	13.0	2.0	1.1	6.6	15.0		0.7	0.8	1.6	.104		-0.6	1.1	0.5	0.5
2	Landry Shamet	2020-21	23	61	1403	10.3	.578	.730	.171	0.9	7.6	4.4	9.3	1.1	0.6	8.9	16.7		1.2	0.6	1.8	.063		-1.1	-1.5	-2.5	-0.2

 

[Mainstreet]

Him being a one year rental is legit regardless of how he plays. If he rides the bench he is gone next year. If he plays well? He still might be gone. Remind me. His contract is up after next season right?

Landry Shamet is a restricted free agent in 2022-23 with a minimum offer of $5,562,072 to keep him.

 

[Covert Rain]

You're right. I was looking at playoff stats which are meaningless for Carter.

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM	VORP
1	Jevon Carter	2020-21	25	60	717	12.2	.548	.677	.031	2.6	11.8	7.3	13.0	2.0	1.1	6.6	15.0		0.7	0.8	1.6	.104		-0.6	1.1	0.5	0.5
2	Landry Shamet	2020-21	23	61	1403	10.3	.578	.730	.171	0.9	7.6	4.4	9.3	1.1	0.6	8.9	16.7		1.2	0.6	1.8	.063		-1.1	-1.5	-2.5	-0.2

This comparison is almost meaningless as well when the sample size is 50% of Shamets and their primary roles are for different positions.

 

[TJ]

And yet he sacrificed competitiveness for money in the Nash era when the team was on the cusp of a championship, and there are those, including some on this board, suggesting that this very trade for Shamet was motivated by money/cost savings.

THAT is why I am concerned about this particular bit of history repeating itself.

What's wrong with that? Paying a guy $3.8 mil/season to hand out water bottles is too much, especially if we can reallocate that money to a position of need.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The long term investment would have made Sarver richer in the Nash era as well, but Sarver was notoriously shortsighted with his approach. The era might be different, but that won't matter unless Sarver has really changed, and now I am no longer so sure he has...

Maybe, we'll never know. But the franchise was upside down and Sarver doesn't have the deepest pockets. The new TV contract made the penny pinching less necessary. If the TV money ever dries up, I'm sure he'll go back to being as fiscally conservative as he can be. Right now though, there's no reason to expect him to lock up the wallet. Having said that though, he is still on the lower end of wealthy owners and he's not going to just throw away money.

 

[Hoop Head]

And yet Carter's numbers and defense were superior...

In garbage time minutes and even then barely.

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[Proximo]

It was speculation based on reporting they had from sources within the organization.

Lets be real here - If it takes 15 million a year to sign Cam Payne do you think the suns should do it?

I don't. I know that would hurt the team badly, but you can't do really stupid contracts just because we were in the finals.

 

[Proximo]

Because Carter produced better than Shamet on the court. The numbers bear that out, as does the defense.

I don't think it is a fair comparison.

Shamet was actually playing real minutes last year and has for most of his career.

I will say this, Shamet is way better getting his shot off than Carter. Carter may be just as an efficient shooter - but he needs to be wide open to shoot, that is the difference.

Bottom line is Carter is just too deficent offensively to play in the nba. He has no ability to go to the rim, and very little shake. He is basically just a catch and shoot guy.

I loved Carters attitude, but physically I just think he is pretty much as good as he will ever be right now, and it's not good enough to get regular playing time in the NBA.

 

[Finito]

Lets be real here - If it takes 15 million a year to sign Cam Payne do you think the suns should do it?

I don't. I know that would hurt the team badly, but you can't do really stupid contracts just because we were in the finals.

remember that when we pay a 37 year old 100 million dollars next week

 

[Hoop Head]

remember that when we pay a 37 year old 100 million dollars next week

He just turned 36 in May and just finished 5th in MVP voting, was an All-Star, 2nd Team All-NBA, and led this team to the NBA Finals. He wasn't a backup playing 20 minutes a game. But sure, that's the same as paying a backup PG starter money.

 

[GatorAZ]

You seriously think Monty didn't sign off on this?

The wailing and gnashing of teeth over Carter is odd. There were plenty of times in the playoffs where we desperately needed PG minutes, and Carter didn't get any time.

That tells you all you need to know about how they feel about Carter.

I will always feel it was a mistake not playing Carter vs the Clippers and Bucks when we needed toughness. Payne was trash after rolling his ankle. It’s hard not to give Monty the benefit of the doubt but Shamet is nothing more than a streaky gunner. I would rather have him over Carter if it’s straight up by I think they should’ve waited until our pick was on the clock. I would’ve risked the inexperience of Jared Butler over both since we’re talking about a 8-9th man in the rotation.

 

[Chaplin]

I will always feel it was a mistake not playing Carter vs the Clippers and Bucks when we needed toughness. Payne was trash after rolling his ankle. It’s hard not to give Monty the benefit of the doubt but Shamet is nothing more than a streaky gunner. I would rather have him over Carter if it’s straight up by I think they should’ve waited until our pick was on the clock. I would’ve risked the inexperience of Jared Butler over both since we’re talking about a 8-9th man in the rotation.

If Butler was slated to be our 8th man, we would be having a bad year.

 

[GatorAZ]

If Butler was slated to be our 8th man, we would be having a bad year.

Disagree. He’s experienced and a winner plus has the prefect skill set as a late rotation guard. But I’ll guess I’ll have to watch the Jazz to see.

 

[Hoop Head]

I will always feel it was a mistake not playing Carter vs the Clippers and Bucks when we needed toughness. Payne was trash after rolling his ankle. It’s hard not to give Monty the benefit of the doubt but Shamet is nothing more than a streaky gunner. I would rather have him over Carter if it’s straight up by I think they should’ve waited until our pick was on the clock. I would’ve risked the inexperience of Jared Butler over both since we’re talking about a 8-9th man in the rotation.

If Butler didn't have heart issues then I'd probably agree but that's a big thing to overlook.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm amazed at how much stock people are putting into a #29 draft pick.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If Butler was slated to be our 8th man, we would be having a bad year.

It's crazy that people aren't looking at the many YEARS of proof from watching/following the NBA draft.

People always get sucked in by the "potential" of college kids or overseas prospects and forget that that the most of them either end up as marginal players or never even play in the NBA. I remember years ago being excited about Alonzo Tucker's potential who was drafted around the same spot. He sounded like a guy who could be a nice rotation player.

Shamet >>> Carter and the 29th pick. Carter didn't play because Carter CAN'T play. Even the national media is giving the Nets too much credit; Carter isn't good at all. He is the definition of a scrub.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's crazy that people aren't looking at the many YEARS of proof from watching/following the NBA draft.

People always get sucked in by the "potential" of college kids or overseas prospects and forget that that the most of them either end up as marginal players or never even play in the NBA. I remember years ago being excited about Alonzo Tucker's potential who was drafted around the same spot. He sounded like a guy who could be a nice rotation player.

Shamet >>> Carter and the 29th pick. Carter didn't play because Carter CAN'T play. Even the national media is giving the Nets too much credit; Carter isn't good at all. He is the definition of a scrub.

I agree but I can kind of see what the national media is thinking. Carter is capable of playing 15-20 minutes a night with Kyrie, Harden, and Durant. I mean, I could play with those 3 also and probably not hurt the team too much. Carter can be a bulldog alongside them in certain match ups and his lack of offense won't be a problem. The Nets are one of the few teams that don't need to worry about what he can or can't do offensively.

His shortcomings on offense keep him from seeing meaningful minutes. Carter is a defense only player in an offense driven league.