Last year's top 15 NFL sack leaders...interesting.

[Ed B]

Here's last year's top 15 sackers with their "listed" height and weight (which may be high or low in some cases)


1 Jason Taylor, MIA 18.5 6'6", 260
2 Simeon Rice, TB 15.5 6'5", 265 (yeah right)
3 D. Freeney, IND 13.0 6'1", 265
4 Andre Carter, SF 12.5 6'4", 263
4 Hugh Douglas, JAC 12.5 6'2", 280
6 K. Gbaja-Biamila, GB 12.0 6'4", 255 (soaking wet?)
6 L. Little, STL 12.0 6'3", 257
6 J. Peppers, CAR 12.0 6'6", 280
9 L. Arrington, WAS 11.0 6'3", 245
M. Strahan, NYG 11.0 6'5", 272 (what do you think his 40 time is?)
Rod Coleman, OAK 11.0 6'2", 285 (the only DT on the list)
12. R. Colvin, NE 10.5 6'3", 245
P. Kerney ATL 10.5 6'5", 270
14. J. Abraham, NYJ 10 6'4", 255
M. Rucker, CAR 6'5", 275


AVERAGE WEIGHT: 264.8 POUNDS

AVERAGE WEIGHT MINUS COLEMAN (DEFENSIVE TACKLE) AND ARRINGTON (LINEBACKER): 264.7 POUNDS

And keep in mind that guys like Little, KGB, and Rice are nowhere NEAR those listed weights.

Not that this proves anything, just an interesting get-the-facts-straight point for the people who seem to believe that every defensive end in the NFL is 6'6" and 295 pounds.

 

[Ed B]

And as a side note, 13 of those 15 players are defensive ends.....only one DT. That would seem to strongly imply that the best way to improve your pass rush is drafting an end rather than a tackle?

 

[Pariah]

No facts to back this up--I didn't go see who the DTs were--but it could be that there are dominant DTs on the same line as the DEs on this list, freeing up the ends to get to the QB.

Just a devil's advocate theory.

 

[jf-08]

Nice post Eduardo. Man Lefty or Suggs, Suggs or Lefty.............. Hopefully we will have the opportunity to make that decision.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Pariah
No facts to back this up--I didn't go see who the DTs were--but it could be that there are dominant DTs on the same line as the DEs on this list, freeing up the ends to get to the QB.

Just a devil's advocate theory.

You certainly may be right.

But in terms of production, the DEs are putting up the sacks. Stats don't prove everything, I understand, but the stats last season we dominated by the ends.

Roderick Coleman is the only DT on the top 15 and he didn't even start for Oakland. But guys like Rice (Sapp/McFarland) and Taylor (Bowens) have some great DTs to play with. However, others such as Leonard Little, KGB, or Freeney have nothing more than mediocre/average/decent DTs to play next to.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

can someone please find the 40 times for each of those players? i'd be interested to see what the average 40 time is for each of those 264 pounders?

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
can someone please find the 40 times for each of those players? i'd be interested to see what the average 40 time is for each of those 264 pounders?

Thats what I was thinking, although I dont know many QB's that are 40 yards away from the DE...

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
can someone please find the 40 times for each of those players? i'd be interested to see what the average 40 time is for each of those 264 pounders?

I don't think I have the time to sit around and go through all my old draft guides tonight, but I may look up one or two.

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by jkf296
Nice post Eduardo. Man Lefty or Suggs, Suggs or Lefty.............. Hopefully we will have the opportunity to make that decision.

Hopefully only one of those guys are there so we dont have a chance to mess it up...


We choose one, the other wins 10 superbowls and ours asks if want paper or plastic...

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
can someone please find the 40 times for each of those players? i'd be interested to see what the average 40 time is for each of those 264 pounders?

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/football/nfl/2000/draft/profiles/kabeergbajabiamila.htm

 

[Ed B]

I'm most interested to try to find what Abraham, Little, and Rice ran. I have the guides, I just don't want to fish them out right this second

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by Ed B
I'm most interested to try to find what Abraham, Little, and Rice ran. I have the guides, I just don't want to fish them out right this second

In todays Republic article about Suggs, they made it sound like a few of them ran in the 4.8 range, but I can't confirm it.

 

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Ed B
And as a side note, 13 of those 15 players are defensive ends.....only one DT. That would seem to strongly imply that the best way to improve your pass rush is drafting an end rather than a tackle?

Well it happens so many times how the DTs collapse the pocket and cause havoc while the DEs just only have to fall and put their hand on the quaterback.

Sacks are like assists in Basketball and Hockey. They are just stats. Someone can do all the work while someonelse can get all the credit.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Jasper
Well it happens so many times how the DTs collapse the pocket and cause havoc while the DEs just only have to fall and put their hand on the quaterback.

Wow, I never knew it was that easy!

 

[ajcardfan]

This DT/DE thing has long been debated on this board, and I'm firmly in the corner of getting the DE all other things being equal. Not that great DT's can't be the difference makers on a line, they can. But, the middle is always easier to block. You can slide the * or C over easy, the FB just has to step up. But, off the edge, it's almost impossible to slide your linemen's protection down without creating serious weaknesses in the middle. So, you have to keep the TE in (cutting down a receiving option), or have a back help the tackle (not a good matchup). Or, you see teams do things like roll the QB away from the end (like they did to Rice here) which really makes it a lot easier for your coverage.

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
This DT/DE thing has long been debated on this board, and I'm firmly in the corner of getting the DE all other things being equal. Not that great DT's can't be the difference makers on a line, they can. But, the middle is always easier to block. You can slide the * or C over easy, the FB just has to step up. But, off the edge, it's almost impossible to slide your linemen's protection down without creating serious weaknesses in the middle. So, you have to keep the TE in (cutting down a receiving option), or have a back help the tackle (not a good matchup). Or, you see teams do things like roll the QB away from the end (like they did to Rice here) which really makes it a lot easier for your coverage.

Most people would agree with that, including most NFL coaches, but I once heard an interesting comment by Mike Shanahan that made me rethink that. He said he would rather have his top lineman be guards instead of tackles, because he could always chip a defender off the edge with a RB or TE, but couldn't prevent good defensive tackles from collapsing the pocket unless he had good guards and a center to take them on. It kind of makes sense if you face a John Randle in his prime who just blew everything up for a few years in his prime. Not many DTs with that ability though.

 

[D Pasch]

Originally posted by Ed B
Here's last year's top 15 sackers with their "listed" height and weight (which may be high or low in some cases)


1 Jason Taylor, MIA 18.5 6'6", 260
3 D. Freeney, IND 13.0 6'1", 265


These two players are very interesting, because neither is this heavy. Taylor is actually around 245 lbs, and Freeney around 260. Suggs will be fine, wherever he winds up. Hopefully, with the Cardinals.

Dave Pasch

 

[Houdini]

I don't know if these 40 times are accurate or not, but it's what was listed in an article I just got about the defensive linemen in the draft. I pasted a few excerpts, good and bad to be fair.



"Suggs isn't Lawrence Taylor but he may be close as a rusher," said Ron Nay, the Washington Redskins' director of college scouting who began his career as a National Football League career as a scout in 1972. "And Robertson is better than Warren Sapp at the same stage......

....A longtime AFC scout said the workout in March that was attended by 31 teams was possibly the poorest by a big-name that he had ever witnessed.

Problems arose, however, when Suggs ran 40 yards in about 4.85 seconds and otherwise worked out poorly March 26. He tried again three times last Friday and didn't run any faster.
"It was beyond bad," the scout said. "He wasn't in shape. What does that tell you? You see the sack production but you want a guy to run better than 4.8 and to be in shape."

How slow is 4.84 for a pass-rushing end who stands 6-31/2 and weighs 258?

Really slow, if you consider these 12 selected pass rushers and their pre-draft measurements and times from the last 15 years:
Lawrence Taylor (6-3, 237, 4.62); Derrick Thomas (6-21/2, 234, 4.53); Michael Strahan (6-4, 255, 4.92); Hugh Douglas (6-2, 265, 4.68); Simeon Rice (6-5, 259, 4.55); Peter Boulware (6-4, 255, 4.65); Courtney Brown (6-5, 270, 4.58); Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (6-31/2, 244, 4.65); Jamal Reynolds (6-3, 267, 4.68); Andre Carter (6-4, 253, 4.65); Dwight Freeney (6-1, 268, 4.63); and Julius Peppers (6-6, 282, 4.75).

Suggs also had a subpar vertical jump of 321/2 inches and a horrid long jump of 9-0, a foot shorter than most of the good ones.

"Doesn't matter," Nay said. "Put the tape on. (Left tackles) will never touch him.

"What makes Robertson so special is his enormous girth (6-11/2, 324), amazing speed (4.88) and outstanding feel for the game."
"He's as strong as Sapp and there's a chance he could be as good," Tennessee Titans director of player personnel Rich Snead said.

 

[Houdini]

I forgot to mention, Below were some of the listed times of the defensive tackles.

Coming out, Sapp was 6-1, 280 and ran 4.74.

The only other tackles in the last 15 years that weighed within 15 pounds of Robertson and still ran under 4.9 coming out were Dan Wilkinson (6-31/2, 313, 4.85) in 1994, Daryl Gardener (6-61/2, 327, 4.88) in '96, Darrell Russell (6-41/2, 325, 4.80) in '97 and Albert Haynesworth (6-51/2, 320, 4.87) in '02.

In 1987, Jerome Brown ran 4.85 but weighed 292. Three years later, Cortez Kennedy ran 4.93 at 295.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Houdini
I don't know if these 40 times are accurate or not, but it's what was listed in an article I just got about the defensive linemen in the draft. I pasted a few excerpts, good and bad to be fair.



Michael Strahan (6-4, 255, 4.92

Complete sarcasm to follow:

Wow I dont know how this guy ever gets to the QB with that amount of lackluster speed? Dont give me strenth either because at that speed a QB would release the ball long before a guy running a 4.92 could ever get to him from a whopping 7 yards away? :roll:

 

[Houdini]

Originally posted by Shane H
Complete sarcasm to follow:

Wow I dont know how this guy ever gets to the QB with that amount of lackluster speed? Dont give me strenth either because at that speed a QB would release the ball long before a guy running a 4.92 could ever get to him from a whopping 7 yards away? :roll:

I don't watch the Giants much, but I seen the Packers shut out Strahan the entire game until Favre flopped for him at the end of the game to give him the sack record. He couldn't get near Favre the majority of the time. Maybe having QBs flop is his secret Sarcasm ended.

Your point is valid though. Strahan is good against the run and pass with a slow speed it appears.

 

[Pariah]

I don't think you need great speed to get to a QB, but if you don't have great speed you probably have great strength. Strahan is a pretty strong MFer. To add to that he's really quick, too.

 

[Ed B]

This thread's discussion proves what everyone should already understand......great pass rushers (and football players in general) come in every shape and size.

Fred Dean or Michael Strahan, both got to the QB.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Pariah
I don't think you need great speed to get to a QB, but if you don't have great speed you probably have great strength. Strahan is a pretty strong MFer. To add to that he's really quick, too.

He wasn't always so big and strong though....

 

[BIGDADDY_REDBIRD]

I think that people are really expecting Suggs to be some sort of super hero right now. But in reality he's done great things for a kid that has not reached full maturity. At age 20 he's probably at 65% strength wise in regard to his maximum strength which he will reach about the time he reaches 26-30. When he reaches his prime, If we draft him we'll all be grateful that we did'nt drop the ball on this guy. He will undoubtedly get Faster as well.